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[PTTG?]

With the new version visible in the distance, and only a few (abet large) items on the "to-do" list, Perhaps it's time to start considering what to do with the Wiki We don't yet know what will be different for a lot of items, but many of our beloved bugs and glitches are going out the green glass window, notably the PermaFlood, not to mention the cavern layout. I have seen a little about Auditing the Wiki page by page to make the whole thing correct, and with a grassroots thing that would work. Also, It would be nice to have a few more sections there, for instance, tutorials and Future Features. What does everybody think? Any other enhancements for the Wiki?

P.S. Also add a "How Wikis are not fourms" page, too.

[Tamren]

I got a simple solution. Toady if you are listening, we could use a wiki forum  

We could use it for tons of things, not limited to:
1. Discussing needed changes and errors and or bringing them to light.
2. Critiqueing finished articles and guides.
3. Listing tutorials and guidelines on how to edit the wiki.

In any case the wiki is going to need a MASSIVE overhaul come next version. At least 50% or more of it will be rendered obselete.

[Shades]

quote:Originally posted by PTTG?:
<STRONG>With the new version visible in the distance, and only a few (abet large) items on the "to-do" list, Perhaps it's time to start considering what to do with the Wiki</STRONG>

It might just be easier to mark every page with a 'refers to version xyx' tag and then remove them as we edit pages. As long as we can list the ones it still exists on I don't think it would take that long to remove most of them.

quote:Originally posted by PTTG?:
<STRONG>P.S. Also add a "How Wikis are not fourms" page, too.</STRONG>

There is a lot of cross over, but if your reading the wiki it's easier to ask there and as there is less chatter anything resolved stays there longer. On the other hand anything useful is added to articles anyway.

[Morlark]

My suggestion would be to create a new namespace, say "Historical", for example, and then move any pages for things that are getting substatially altered in the new version to there. That way the information will still be there for people who want to see how things used to work.

[Shades]

quote:Originally posted by Morlark:
<STRONG>My suggestion would be to create a new namespace, say "Historical", for example, and then move any pages for things that are getting substatially altered in the new version to there. That way the information will still be there for people who want to see how things used to work.</STRONG>

Technically it's all there anyway under the history tab   nothing is ever lost, even the spam.

[mickel]

A "historical" namespace would be nice.

I'm prepared to pitch in and work on the Wiki, but I'm not very good at it. I only ever made one article on the Wikipedia and it got deleted after a month or so. And I was so proud of it too.  

I think as soon as a thread on the forum "cools down", whatever came out of the discussion needs to be put into the Wiki. Maybe we could get a routine started that whoever is in the mood does that with threads that have just gone from yellow to white (the icon), and then posts a "WIKIFIED" post in the thread, to signify that everything up to that point has been compiled into the Wiki...

[schm0]

We can surely talk about any new changes on the wiki "Discussion" page. Historical records would be nice, but I doubt they would provide any us insight into anything.

When the new version comes out, revisions will be made. People with too much attention to detail (like myself) will probably help in the editing process. Eventually, we'll have the wiki up to date. In the mean time, check out the "discussion" tabs of the pages in question. Most likely there will be a section where you can add your own findings about some new aspect to the game. Throw in your two pennies and if someone else finds the same thing is true, then you can edit the wiki permanently. I doubt we need a whole forum dedicated to wiki-editing, as this thread will suffice.

It is worth noting that even today, there are questions about certain topics and incorrect information sitting on the official pages of the wiki as I write this message. It is similarly noteworthy that this game is still in alpha stages, which means all the work we put into editing the wiki will only be good for as long as that version stands... Who knows what DF will look like in 3 years?

[Tamren]

Any and all changes to the wiki must be discussed. The discussion page is helpful but would not be adequate for co-ordinating the audit and refurbishing of more than one page at a time. We could use multiple threads for that, and we already have accounts here.

If Toady doesnt want to put another forum up thats fine. But considering the scope of what we are about to do here, we need a gameplan or this will fall apart.

[KrunkSplein]

I think we're losing sight of an even greater problem - if 50% of the information on the wiki is wrong, how is Savok going to yell at people?

[4bh0r53n]

@krunk, dont try and start a flame war, because thats what your comment seems like. If it is meant sarcasticly, i apologise, but as i read it, i got the above impression

[Markavian]

I think we should 'version' the pages, so that the information about the current version of the game is available along side the new version of the game.

E.g. under the title for say, "permaflood", we could put a template {{ver0.23.130.23a}} which said: "Applies to version v0.23.130.23a only"

And:

{{ver.allversions}} : "Applies to all versions of DF".

What d'ya think? (For transitional purposes)

If the material gets really old, and no one plays the old game, (which might take some time?) then then we can remove it completely from the Wiki, and as pointed out - its not 'lost forever', merely moved out of view.

[Tamren]

Well at the moment we do not know exactly ho much of the game has been changed. What we should do then, is archive everything, put a link to it on the page and blank out the pages. The information can still be accessed, just takes one more click then usual.

Once we know what the game is like and how it works, we can start to bring back the information that is still relevent. Anything that does not apply anymore, such as channels, are left in the archive. From there, we concentrate on adding raw data, writing guides and articles comes later, for now we need to get the information we need.

Edit: Of course, the easiest way would be to move the existing links one screen down, and put in a NEW set of links that all detail the new version. The old stuff can be left as-is or moved to the new section if nothing has been changed.

[ September 07, 2007: Message edited by: Tamren ]

[Turgid Bolk]

Wikipedia seems to do fine without a forum; they use Project pages to coordinate efforts. We could do a similiar thing, have a page specifically for organizing the update effort. 'Course, something more ad-hoc like a simple "ver0.23.130.23a" catagory would probably work well, since relatively few people work on this wiki.

In any case, I think a few project pages, along with the already-present talk pages, would suffice for discussing the changes.

[Tamren]

Okay then. Now what topic is the most important?

The most obvious is that Z level are in. They change EVERYTHING.
Less obvious but still vital is the materials system is recieving a huge boost in complexity.

[mickel]

There is already a template for "this information is relevant to <version>" or words to that effect.

As for having a forum for the wiki, it doesn't seem useful to me. As is said, the Wikipedia does without it. Every article has a Talk page, and for general stuff there is the Community Portal.

I think we do need to integrate the forum and the wiki more, though. However that is supposed to happen - I don't know, except for what I've already written here and elsewhere:

Wiki articles can and should link to relevant forum threads, and new information that surfaces in the forums should be added to the wiki as soon as possible.