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Poll

Which of the following reflects your political spectrum the best in your opinion?

Anarchist
Libertarian
Communist
Socialist
Soocial Democrat\Liberal
Moderate
Market Liberal
Conservative
Far out Nationalist
Other(Specify)

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Author Topic: Political Spectrum  (Read 10630 times)

Kagus

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2008, 03:41:09 am »

Economic left/right -3.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -5.08

I'm about three spots to the right of the Dalai Lama.  Woo.

LASD

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2008, 05:16:42 am »

I'm about three spots to the right of the Dalai Lama.  Woo.
Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62

I'm two spots to the left. Pretty much opposite to George W. Bush, which doesn't quite surprise me but explains a few things.

I guess these results make me a Libertarian Communist (both of which are great ideas, but have a hard time working). I'll check Communist box, because I found myself to be wildly against anything made for maximized profit (or for benefit of only few individuals, like some massive multinational companies) and supporting everything that is given equally for free to everyone who might want/need it (or made for the good of everyone, like the Fair Trade products.)

Is everyone here really this Liberal or are the Conservative people scared of getting dung thrown at them? Or is the test made to give Liberal results? Or have everyone been brainwashed interrogated by the Liberal Crime Squad?
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Xehon

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2008, 05:18:53 am »

Anything school tells you is wrong. There's my views.

What if school says it's wrong?

I would be a little reluctant to declare the law of gravity wrong, but I do agree that there is a ridiculous amount of pressure to establish the educational system as the sole authority on truth and fact. While rigid overgeneralising rules are not the way to go at it, I do believe that like science some hundreds of years ago the educational system should start to question authority and rely more on proof. While I do not believe that proving everything in one's lifetime is a viable option, I would suggest simply a broader array of sources than just a national board of education that makes all the curriculums.
For an example the local educational system here teaches in all biology classes under ecological conservation that electric transport is a inefficient and in fact useless alternative to petrol driven transportation, which is in fact utter non-sense. Electric transport is in the end a lot more fuel efficient and produces a lot less greenhouse gases no matter where you get your electricity from and not only are they up to par with the with petrol vehicles, they are more user-friendly as casual transportation. Well, I could go on, but you get the point with electric transportation, no reason not to use and all the reasons to be better for all of us. Except for the private sector it seems, who seem to fight them at every corner.
I've met a lot of specialists in their fields, who absolutely despise the factual inaccuracies of the educational system here. In stead of making children to rely on the board of education for their information, schools should promote discussion and debate providing as much raw information as possible from experts directly and guidance if needed.

This brings me to the matter of political tests. I agree with everyone that the test I posted isn't perfectly neutral, it was merely the first one I got hold of. While I don't really think there are any absolutely neutral tests on this matter, I'm still very interested if someone has a better one to offer.

[No mr. text-wallie you have to stay outside]

I do not believe myself special, which is actually quite frustrating as it is, as I don't really like the human race as the way it is and thus the fact that I AM biologically human unnerves me somewhat. Go figure. Also, in my view I do not see self-interest as the main drive, but instead the fact that everything we do is from our own personal view point, not a collective point for an example. I guess it rather fussy to everyone else and I should and maybe will write a book at one point about it to explain my ideas on this.

I actually don't really get the question, I don't see the problem. The point with anarchism is to eliminate the possibility that someone can live off the fat of others(this is why I don't like "anarcho"-capitalism), which is in the end damaging to the whole. While I acknowledge that some might perform better than other, but I don't see why they should be subsidised. They'll be better off the amount that the direct result of their labour is better. As I understand, the Americans understand Anarchy quite radically different from us Eurofreaks, so it might be that.

Now, I wanted to say something and now I forgot. Anyways, whats up with the Americans anyway? Wasn't everyone pissed off with Republican conservatives just a moment ago? How come everyone seems to be taking crackshots at Obama now? I don't get the two party system at all. Representative democracy is bad enough, but with only two choices it's quite a ways off the horrible side. Could someone give me their respective of this?
I guess the EU isn't any better. I bet 99.9% of us hasn't got a clue what's going on in Brussels.

Now we need a religion debate, to really get the muck flying ;)

It occured to me. Might be interesting if we survive this thread and get something out of it. People seem to be a little reluctant to challenge opinions of others and put up their own to be challenged. I understand the fear of flames, but we wont get anywhere without debate.

Are there no right-wingers on the netrowebmachine?

Most people would probably call me right wing, but I don't want to subscribe to any pre-existing set of ideas.

EDIT: Silly me, that's not what ascribe means.

Sure you are, I used to think I was a righty as well when I was in school and defended the idea of communism as a fundamentally good one.

But seriously. You believe in negative liberty, but what about positive liberty. Should a person forced to starve to death because he can't pay for food? Should society defend our ability to fulfill our aspirations?

I think Communism is superior to Capitalism, but mankind is best suited to Capitalism, since we're so competitive and ambitious.

I don't believe that humans are competitive in nature. Rather capitalism makes everything competitive by making it necessary to achieve personal goals, even survival. Communism can be successful if it were driven directly by the needs of the individuals. It couldn't be set in place by force or with indirect measures.

I see myself as a neo-communist. Basically, communism mixed with some business freedom, but most of all, democracy.
It should be more of everyone-is-part-of-the-state-and-has-their-say. I believe businesses should be allowed freedom, but the taxes on max income should go up and min income should go up. You can still make more then your fellow human, but not enough to raise you to a next class.
Also, their should be a huge emphasis on anti-corruption. Since power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts, their should ALWAYS be someone to tap you on your shoulder when you've done something wrong.

Well, in communism you wouldn't have property, no property no business, and no money, which means no income nor taxes. What you described is a sort of socialism or a more strict social democracy.
The problem with this is that you'll kill of the main drive of capitalism while leaving it still in place in the society, in my view at least. You take away the motivation that people get from getting more stuff, so you'll inevitably end up with a sort of stagnation like in the Soviet Union(there was no communism in the CCCP, its a fact and they acknowledged it in the constant speeches party members gave telling that communism will come in another 50 years. If there had been communism then there wouldn't have been money or property).
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Asheron

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2008, 07:37:39 am »

Indeed, thats why I added the neo part. Communism as Marx described is impossible, I am aware of that. However, you can make the gap between smaller and richer, for the good of the people vs the good of yourself smaller.
I think I should explain my business freedom more, since it's not the same freedom as in capitalism.
If you want to start, for example, a shop. You start it, and request whatever goods you want from the government. The government supplies you with the goods ( in exchange for money, just like in capitalism ), but you can choose of which factory for example. The government acts as a transit to make sure you things go by the book. However, there are min/max prices to keep things fair.
People buy at your shop, you make your profit, you do your bookkeeping. You pay your taxes depending on your profit. If you sold a lot, you probably worked for it. However, where two people would, for example, make a netto income of 3000 vs 1000, it would be 2000 vs 1000. Here is the BIG difference with socialism; the one who earns less doesn't gets extra. The one who works still gets more money, but if the other one worked harder, he could earn just as much.
Then you ask, well, what about the less fortunate who don't have/can get a job?
Here comes the communist state in to play; the state has it's own firms, in which you can work. Everybody who can work is accepted. If you just refuse to work, well, hell, too bad. You don't earn money.
If you can't work, because of illness for example, you of course still get maintained by society.
Of course, there are still a lot of other things that differ in my view, and a lot of these things could be changed or adapted slightly.
Oh yes, and I still believe in the right to have property. So, you could say my belief is something between a mishmash of communism and capitalism. 

Also, the cold war freak in me would like to notice that the stagnation in the USSR wasn't what it is cracked up to be. The entire world breathing on the USSR's neck was, and more importantly, the wide-spread corruption.
I remember that the economy of the USSR even rose once ( possibly during the Great Depression ) while those of the western countries slightly fell.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 07:59:59 am by Asheron »
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mutant mell

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2008, 08:40:39 am »

Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.41

Anyways, I believe that people are special, even the least special among us.  We have a rare opportunity, I believe, and that opportunity is to live life.  the problem is, however, that people believe that this kind of "special" gives them an entitlement to be better than others, when everyone has a voice, and that voice is beautiful.  While everyone is special, people take it too far, and try and suppress the voices of others.
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Nilocy

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2008, 09:05:00 am »

Yeah, but every society needs some rules to stop people from getting out of control. If you had the chance would you have tried to supress Hitlers voice in the 20s/30s?
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mutant mell

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2008, 09:18:20 am »

*sigh* How did I know someone would bring up Hitler?

Anyways, yes, I would, as he is trying to supress others.  Just because I believe that everyone is special doesn't mean that I believe punishment should be annihilated.  Really, it means that I believe that a crime against another person is an even more grievous offence than most people.
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Nilocy

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2008, 09:23:02 am »

Hmm, sorry to use the Hitler example, but its the first that came to mind. Yeah, i understand where your coming from and thats fair and all. But what some people seem to neglect with the whole free speech thing is that if everyone go to voice their own views before a descision would be made it'd take foooorrr eevvveeerrr to get anything done anywhere. Thats the main disadvantage with Democracies, its too darned slow sometimes.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2008, 10:41:18 am »

Quote from: Godwin
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

Which doesn't say such a statement is improper. Just that it becomes increasingly likely.

I think in a political discussion most people would consider nazi politics to be undesirable. Moving onward into new topics is cool! :P
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Cthulhu

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2008, 10:52:57 am »

I don't know, most of the Hitler references I see on the internet are ignorant people comparing things they don't like to things people think are bad.  I once saw a Facebook Flair with Hillary Clinton wearing a Hitler outfit, with a Hitler moustache, on a Communist Red background.  Because Hitler and Communism go hand in hand.
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Reasonableman

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2008, 11:01:59 am »

Well, red was a big part of Nazi propaganda too. Pure Aryan blood and all that jazz.
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Torak

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2008, 11:07:36 am »

They need to have more games based on the Russian-German part of WW2. I'm tired of playing as the SUPER HEROIC Americans who break the Nazis in half like dried leaves with their +3 Flamberges. I want this mostly because after playing STALKER, I realized that Russians are much more badass than every other European and Asian people, except maybe the Nordic Europeans.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 11:09:09 am by Torak »
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umiman

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2008, 11:49:13 am »

The test was quite loaded. There should have been a "BURN THEM" option for every single one. :/

I also think "strongly agree" and "strongly disagree" are misleading choices. But meh...

Economic Left/Right: 0.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.03

I'm effectively neutral. Oh dear...

edit: Hahaha! I'm the only one so far who's got a positive economic number. That explains why everyone jumps on my capitalist love. It also means I'm the rebel of this forum! Wooo!

Asheron

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2008, 12:08:57 pm »

They need to have more games based on the Russian-German part of WW2. I'm tired of playing as the SUPER HEROIC Americans who break the Nazis in half like dried leaves with their +3 Flamberges. I want this mostly because after playing STALKER, I realized that Russians are much more badass than every other European and Asian people, except maybe the Nordic Europeans.
Amen to that. Really, COH needs a soviet faction. And some proper rebalances to. Those Shermans are way too strong. A panther could eat them for breakfast.
Oh, and ingame spetsnaz... I want to throw backflipping hatchets at people!

On the topic though, I know I'm going to get flamed to hell, but I have the feeling a lot of people are just ignorant when it comes to referring Hitler. "Hitler is bad! Oooh! He killed people!"
They think everybody who voted for him was a bad jew-killing monster. However, they always forget what situation Germany was in, and what Hitler actually did. He did what he promised, he made a lot of jobs by industralisating the hell out of Germany ( true, those factories were made for the war, and so was the autobahn etc... ).
But, you've got to hand it to him, he actually did what he promised.
But yes, killing millions and millions of people screws all those things up.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Political Spectrum
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2008, 12:21:48 pm »

The test was quite loaded. There should have been a "BURN THEM" option for every single one. :/

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