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Author Topic: a BUNCH of newb questions.  (Read 2660 times)

RedKimchi

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2008, 09:32:49 am »

Once you get the knack of defending down, you then have to decide whether you want to go all the way on defenses or not. Some consider it more dwarfly to hit goblins with hammers. :)

I see what you mean by that, but for now, i'm only trying to survive.

Things such as making biscuits out of plump helmet beer isn't too much of a problem for me :)

Thanks again to everyone o.o

Just a few more i think.

1. Do animal traps instantly go off when lizards/rats touch the scare there on?
2. Do animal traps catch flies?
3. When meat goes bad, but its outside, it won't do much will it? No miasma to be afraid of?
4. If meat DID rot in my fortress, there's a command for bringing it outside right?
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Deathworks

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2008, 09:44:05 am »

Hi!

It has been ages since I did something with animal traps, so no info on that.

3. No problem at all. You ignore it, the dwarves ignore it, everyone ignores it.

4. There is no explicit command. However, you can designate refuse stockpiles just like your food stockpiles and so on. If a dwarf has nothing important to do, she may pick up refuse and place it in the stock pile.

Basically, there are two approaches to refuse stockpiles (which you could combine with custom settings if you wish): Outdoor and indoor.

Outdoor refuse stockpiles are good at the beginning and have the advantage that they never cause miasma trouble.

Indoor refuse stockpiles allow you to place the butcher and the tanner deeper inside the fortress. Animal corpses do not always arrive at first at the butcher shop, in which case they will be dumped on the refuse pile. If refuse pile and butcher are far away, the corpse may have trouble ever reaching the butcher. Similarly, hides (created by the butcher!) may go to the refuse stockpile before going to the tanner where they are turned into leather. Note that hides will rot, so time is of an essence there as well.

Anyhow, welcome to one of the greatest simulation games in existance. I know you will enjoy your stay, so have fun!

Deathworks
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Qmarx

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2008, 10:12:06 am »

Basically, there are two approaches to refuse stockpiles (which you could combine with custom settings if you wish): Outdoor and indoor.

Outdoor refuse stockpiles are good at the beginning and have the advantage that they never cause miasma trouble.

Indoor refuse stockpiles allow you to place the butcher and the tanner deeper inside the fortress. Animal corpses do not always arrive at first at the butcher shop, in which case they will be dumped on the refuse pile. If refuse pile and butcher are far away, the corpse may have trouble ever reaching the butcher. Similarly, hides (created by the butcher!) may go to the refuse stockpile before going to the tanner where they are turned into leather. Note that hides will rot, so time is of an essence there as well.

To add to this: note that miasma doesn't travel diagonally, so indoor dumping zones can quite easily contain it, and that as long as you have no ceiling over your dump site it counts as outdoors.  Build a chimney to the top of the map to keep out flying riffraff.
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RedKimchi

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2008, 10:20:05 am »

Hi!

It has been ages since I did something with animal traps, so no info on that.

How have you managed to get rid of the pests o.o? Cats perhaps?

And to Qmarx, can i just place a one tile channel over an indoor refuse pile? Not sure what u mean by chimney
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Jay

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2008, 10:54:19 am »

Vermin get spawned by the stockpile.  You will be using a LOT of traps to keep up.
A single cat can do the work of several traps
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RedKimchi

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2008, 11:07:30 am »

Vermin get spawned by the stockpile.  You will be using a LOT of traps to keep up.
A single cat can do the work of several traps

Argh, so my carpenter will be busy then :/

Anyone able to answer my questions 1 & 2 for traps?
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Qmarx

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2008, 11:11:06 am »

Hi!

It has been ages since I did something with animal traps, so no info on that.

How have you managed to get rid of the pests o.o? Cats perhaps?

And to Qmarx, can i just place a one tile channel over an indoor refuse pile? Not sure what u mean by chimney

Yeah, channel out the ceiling to however deep your refuse pile is.
The "chimney" is when you build walls around the hole on the surface leading to your refuse pile, so flying creatures don't invade your fortress through the gaping hole in the ceiling.
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Deathworks

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2008, 12:05:10 pm »

Hi!

I am a cat fanatic, so first thing I do after "selling" the anvil on the embark preparation screen is buying 3 kittens :) :)

I didn't know about the diagonal exploit. I usually put 2 or 3 doors between the refuse room and my corridor with at least one empty space between the doors and this settles it for miasma pretty well.

If you are only concerned about vermin, I think you are better off with cats as animal traps are not that useful for that, I think.

With animal traps you can catch small creatures you can put into zoos to look at. In addition, at least in the 2D it was claimed you could capture purring maggots which were supposed to be milkable, but I am not quite sure whether this actually works in the current version.

BTW, you asked about fortress defenses. Here is my take on it:

Build a mechanics shop.
Make a few menacing spikes at your carpenter's (you have to scroll to the second page of things to produce).
Make a mechanism at the mechanics shop.

Then, you can build a weapon trap (build - trap- weapon trap).

With about 5 spikes, it should be able to deal with any goblin that steps on it.

Using these traps and a few walls (build - construction - wall), you can get up some nice defenses relatively quickly (varies according to terrain).

It is useful to keep the following things in mind for your defenses:

Kobold thieves are good at sneaking - you will only see them if they get spotted by a creature next to them. And weapon and stonefall traps rarely affect them. Kobold thieves want to steal items from your fortress, so putting a narrow passage or a main road between the entrance of the fortress and the goodies helps stop them.

Ranged weapons are deadly in DF. Once you have the ressources, putting up some not-connected walls around the areas on the surface your dwarves usually visit can save quite a few lives. You don't need a completely walled-off compound, just breaking the LOS can help a lot.

I am not sure how you produce food, which is the one of the biggest problems you may be facing.

My recommendation is surface farming:

build 3 3x3 farm plots (build - farm plot - u-u-k-k, I think)
designate several bushes for plant gathering.

Once the dwarves gather plantable things, like local berries, press 'q' and check a field and have them plant those berries there once the seed become available.

My experience is that this method is quite easy, fast, and reliable.

Note that cooking destroys seeds (that is, if a berry gets cooked you never get seeds from it), so you may wish to check on the cooking options in the kitchen tag of the status screen ('z').

I hope you don't mind me being pro-active, but I really want to help.

Good luck and have fun!

Deathworks
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grelphy

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2008, 12:41:58 pm »

A few quick notes about seeds for the questions a while back:

Dwarves will, if they can, place seeds in bags. They have an unfortunate predilection for placing single seeds in empty bags, thus even fortresses with hundreds of bags can find them all used for seed storage--each and every one of them has a single seed in it. Seed-only stockpiles can help with this, but any barrels in the seed stockpiles will carry multiple bags, so even a small seed stockpile will collect tons of bags if it has barrels in it. The solution to this is to set the pile to take zero barrels (q - [highlight stockpile] - E). Somebody calculated that there is a maximum of 200 of any given type of seed and each bag can hold 100 seeds, so if you set up a 2-tile-0-barrel pile for each type of seed, you will (usually, since dwarves still occasionally put seeds in bags outside of seed stockpiles -_-) use a maximum of two bags for each seed type.

IIRC, seeds (and bags) can be removed from barrels by designating them for dumping. They will be dumped one at a time, though, so that barrel with 50 bags and a total of 700 seeds in it will take a while to empty. Needless to say, you should be sure your dump zone isn't the top of a magma vent when doing this.
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RedKimchi

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 10:46:12 pm »

*note to self: bring cats next trip

Only a few for now

1. Will cats and dogs fight?
2. Can i hook up more than one bridge to a lever?
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Deathworks

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2008, 12:24:52 am »

Hello!

Well, I am not that much into levers, so no info on no. 2.

1. Not tested in 39c, but until 38c at least, cats and dogs did not fight (at least not in a notable way).

Personally, I would not recommend taking dogs with you, though. And this is not only because I am not only a cat-lover but also a dog-hater :) :) :)

Your pets have a tendency to breed, and breed quite rapidly. There is no way for you to stop them from doing so, except for exploiting some bugs which may or may not be still around.

This would not be a problem if the program did not keep track of all your pets allowing them to make their own decisions and move freely (provided they are not caged). So, if your pet population grows, you may face a decreasing frame rate (=game speed).

This is why you see all the discussions about ways of removing those useless puppies or murdering poor kittens en masse.

Thus, taking unessential animals with you on embark may mean risking troubles with game speed early on (on embark, you can't determine the sex of the animals, but if you have three of a kind, you can assume that they are a breeding combination).

As mentioned above, breeding is hardly controllable, and partially allowing it is very difficult since you need to influence the animals via jobs given to your dwarves (like butcher puppy or cage cat) - and you may have noticed that dwarves will not always do the jobs in the order you like, so there may be a long delay - maybe too long to prevent the next generation.

Take note, however, that leaving away dogs is a design decision for your fortress.

Basically, you currently have the option of centering your defenses either on army or traps. For beginners or people not interested so much in military detail, traps are the better solution as they are easily to build and quite reliable with most enemies. Training and organizing an army takes more skill, especially since some parts of that take quite a bit of managing. Personally, I recommend to picking that challenge only once you feel firm with the basics.

With a trap-centered defense, you do not need many military dwarves (eventually, when you get real sieges, you may wish to get a few archers, but until then, you rarely need regular military).

If you choose the military approach however, you need to train and organize an army quite quickly. Assigning (war) dogs to fight alongside your soldiers is an option to strengthen them and reduce on-job casualties. So, dogs are part of your soldiers' equipment in that case.

About the bridges and levers, one comment though:

Don't underestimate dwarvish lag. Dwarves will finish what they are currently doing before taking on a new regular job like pulling a lever (and only dwarves can pull a lever, you as the player can not do so directly), pulling a lever does not have a very high priority, it seems and dwarves may stop doing a job if they get hungry, sleepy, or thirsty - even if they are but one tile away from that lever.

In the early stages of your fortress, your dwarves will probably be busy doing all sorts of things, so if your defenses rely on someone quickly pulling that lever, things can easily get dangerous.

Later on, when you have a lot of population and a few non-functional nobles, levers become more reliable as you have more people without any other proper jobs (non-functional nobles will only participate in harvesting - if that is enabled, pulling levers, and health care, I think, though I am not sure about the last one, so they are often idle and thus can respond immediately to pull lever demands)

Have fun.

Deathworks
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Qmarx

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2008, 12:49:20 am »

Get a couple of war dogs.  Chain them inside your single door to the surface.  Kobolds can siege now, and they ignore traps.
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Bromor Neckbeard

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2008, 01:38:42 am »

I bring ONE war dog and ONE cat along.  You can chain the war dog in the main access hallway to your fortress to shred thieves, and let the cat roam freely inside the fort to kill vermin.  The cat won't do a perfect job, but will eliminate 90% or more of pests, and only having one of each will keep you from suffering any runaway animal population problems.
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Skanky

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2008, 05:14:24 am »

Excess dogs are hardly a problem, particularly when used as meat shields.
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Kazindir

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Re: a BUNCH of newb questions.
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2008, 06:41:15 am »

Excess cats aren't a problem either as long as you have a butcher/tanner/leatherworker dwarf somewhere. Then your cats can kill the nasty vermin and your dwarves can enjoy cat pie whilst wearing their fashionable kitten fur clothing. :)
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