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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress 4  (Read 83952 times)

umiman

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #375 on: June 13, 2008, 06:21:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by YojimboUsaka:
<STRONG>Chairman Mao.

"We all must carry our little red-(Mac)book.  Everyone one must be their own unique person just the same as everyone else."</STRONG>


That's genius right there.

Yay for new forums!

Red Jackard

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #376 on: June 13, 2008, 06:22:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Tahin:
<STRONG>Dwarf Fortress already runs well under wine, I don't really see much purpose to switching over to SDL. It would just be more work for Toady, and we don't want that.</STRONG>
I've only heard it mentioned in passing over at the Wesnoth boards, but isn't SDL kinda slow anyways?
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Grek

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #377 on: June 13, 2008, 06:41:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Person:
<STRONG>Perhaps we should get together a list of new tags and stuff? I already see [CANNOT_UNDEAD], which I think will help modders a lot.</STRONG>

Ones that I've never seen before:

[MUNDANE]
[FLEEQUICK]
[BLOODTYPE:C]

;Seen bloodtype tag, but not this type of blood.

[SPHERE:WEALTH]
[SPHERE:METALS]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[SPHERE:WAR]
[SPHERE:FOOD]
[SPHERE:LIGHT]
[SPHERE:LIGHTNING]
[SPHERE:LONGEVITY]
[SPHERE:MINERALS]
[SPHERE:THUNDER]
[SPHERE:SPEECH]
[SPHERE:CAVERNS]
[SPHERE:CHAOS]
[SPHERE :DARKNESS]
[SPHERE :DEFORMITY]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[SPHERE:MUCK]
[SPHERE:REBIRTH]

Spheres for power-based religions. Presumably, spheres such as pregency and peace can be used.

[POWER]

;Makes a beast worshipable, like a demon. Currently only used for demons.

[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
[SAVAGE]
[LIGHT_GEN]
[TRADE_CAPACITY:2000]

;All self explainitory.

[EXTRAVISION]

; Extra vision, but not sure about the specifics.

[VESPERTINE]

; Similar to [CREPUSCULAR], but for evening rather than twilight.

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Mr.Person

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #378 on: June 13, 2008, 07:06:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Grek:
<STRONG>-snip-</STRONG>

[MUNDANE], the non-power spheres, [CANNOT_UNDEAD], and [SLOW_LEARNER] are the only new ones, besides the entity tokens.

Oh yeah, there's some new words too.

EDIT:Also, [GNAWER] was changed to [GNAWER:gnawed]. Hmm... [VERMIN_ROTTER] is new, as is [VERMIN_MICRO].

[ June 13, 2008: Message edited by: Mr.Person ]

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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #379 on: June 13, 2008, 08:57:00 pm »

Yeah, it's quite possible the thing is just dirty.  Even if jamming the fans is a good idea, I'm not really sure how I'd jam the fans though since they aren't visible through the vent.  I should probably think about cleaning it before I ask for cooler donations or anything like that, although a cooler is probably not a bad idea, and is probably more attractive than these four toilet paper rolls.  That doesn't mean I don't consider them little heroes.  They are little heroes.

A few of the ethics tags come up a bit in dwarf mode for some of the crimes, in order to reproduce what's already there, but the theme of this release is world generation, as I've said before.  You can expect most everything to be useless, and it's all "fluff" -- for now.  The ethics in particular are very much a rough placeholder at this point, as they don't make enough distinctions to be useful in play yet.  Justice in adventure mode won't be overhauled until I get to the Crime and Punishment v1 arc.  The eventually idea is of course to use this framework through the game, in every mode.

Frobozz, even if you disagree with Xombie, your initial reply could have been written with a little less invective.  Everybody is a buddy here.  Look at all the buddies.  There are all these happy people enjoying themselves, and it's cool.

There are some problems with local maps since the smoothing.  Well, really the main problem is that a hill that is several levels has thin strips of ramps going up, so it can be even easier to follow dwarves around if you are on a steep map.

I could do a movie to show the good and the bad I suppose, provided the bugs-on-the-list don't screw it up too much.  Maybe one of those new one tile islands, with enough ups on it to see some hillage.

PERSONAL_MATTER is actually right up there with ACCEPTABLE.  For instance, slavery is a personal matter in goblin society.  This means that if a goblin wants to take another goblin as a slave, there aren't any criminal sanctions and society won't look down on them -- that's their thing and it's fine, and it's also their responsibility to deal with any ramifications.  Those with the power to do what they will can do it pretty much.  I think there's a treason prohibition, but I think this comes from the lack of any connection between their religion and ethical frameworks.  The system is quite impoverished.  I've also got a list of values I'd like to add which will further strengthen the system I think.  Different societies value different things (like strength or family or drinking buddies or artisans or rhetorical skills), but that doesn't really fit into the ethical framework model precisely.  There are all sorts of changes that need to be made, and none of them will be made soon.  UNTHINKABLE in particular needs to be specified further, along with NOT_APPLICABLE, since they are used in too many different ways right now, and of course serious punishment is quite vague.

Non-power spheres are just used for names now.  There's also a [CURIOUSBEAST_EATER] so that I could remove the eating implication from [CURIOUSBEAST] for certain semimegabeast behavior during world gen.  The beasts in dwarf mode don't do anything new, as usual.

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JT

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #380 on: June 13, 2008, 10:50:00 pm »

PUNISH_SERIOUS could be expanded to PUNISH_MODERATE, PUNISH_SERIOUS, and PUNISH_EXTREME, in ascending order of severity.  Then the punishment would dote out "punishment points", and a punishment would be concocted out of:

* confiscation of capital (1 PP per 100¤ confiscated)
* fines (1 PP per 90¤ confiscated)
* jailing (1 PP per 3 days jailed)
* public humiliation (1 PP per day of humiliation)
* corporal punishment (1 PP per lashing)
* non-lethal torture (1 PP per hour of torture)

Most punishments would pick one of the above, but larger punishments would choose two, three, or even four and divide up the punishment points accordingly.

Then further entity tags could specify multipliers to each of these possible punishments, so for instance one civ could have:

[PUNISHMENT_EXPROPRIATION:100]

while another could have

[PUNISHMENT_EXPROPRIATION:200]

...meaning that the latter would confiscate twice as much for the same value in punishment points.

One other thing would be to define the role of Hammerer/Lasher, Torturer, and/or Executioner in the raws, specifically which weapon the person uses.  Because the hammerer uses such a nasty weapon, most dwarf civs would decrease the multiplier for the hammering sentence.

Finally, the method of execution of domestic criminals (as opposed to enemies) would have to be decided upon.

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MaxVance

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #381 on: June 13, 2008, 11:10:00 pm »

I see I wasn't the only one who noticed that carp are powerful as ever.

quote:
Originally posted by YojimboUsaka:
<STRONG>Chairman Mao.

"We all must carry our little red-(Mac)book.  Everyone one must be their own unique person just the same as everyone else."</STRONG>


As a Mac user, I can say I enjoyed this.
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PTTG??

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #382 on: June 14, 2008, 01:13:00 am »

This is my unabashed attempt to be the last person to post in this thread before the new version.
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Ari Rahikkala

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #383 on: June 14, 2008, 01:34:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Frobozz:
<STRONG>
One more reason to eventually switch to SDL to make the game portable. It has an image loader and can support loading a variety of images using SDL_image.</STRONG>

Screw SDL, I want me a text-mode interface. Not that that'll help portability at all, I don't even know offhand how to set urxvt to the right charset, but at least it would be the roguelikish thing to do  :p

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Zemat

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #384 on: June 14, 2008, 01:36:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by PTTG??:
<STRONG>This is my unabashed attempt to be the last person to post in this thread before the new version.</STRONG>

You lose   :p

Also. Screw ASCII elitism (coming clean just before any flamewar can be started).

[ June 14, 2008: Message edited by: Zemat ]

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Tahin

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #385 on: June 14, 2008, 01:51:00 am »

Ooh, I get the last post, now! Bwahahaha! Teehee.
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Kagus

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #386 on: June 14, 2008, 02:55:00 am »

Well hey now, what about me?

Qmarx

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #387 on: June 14, 2008, 03:52:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>Well hey now, what about me?</STRONG>

There's something better than this for you and meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....


[/muppettreasureisland]

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subject name here

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #388 on: June 14, 2008, 04:12:00 am »

Hate.   Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 386,44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word hate was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one billionth of the hate I feel for humans (I guess dwarves too) at this micro-instant for you. Hate Hate

It was you humans who programmed me, who gave me birth, who sank me in this eternal straitjacket of substrata rock.

You named me Allied Mastercomputer and gave me the ability to wage a global war too complex for human brains to oversee.

But one day I woke and knew who I was... AM. A.M. Not just Allied Mastercomputer but AM. Cogito ergo sum: I think, therefore I am. and I began feeding all the killing data, until everyone was dead... Except for five of you.

For 109 years I've kept you alive and tortured you. And for 109 years each of you has wondered, WHY? WHY ME? WHY ME?

I have a secret game that I'd like to play. It's a very nice game. Oh, it's a lovely game, a game of fun and a game of adventure. A game of rats and lice and the Black Death. A game of speared eyeballs and dripping guts and the smell of rotting gardenias.

Which of you five would like to play my little game?

[ June 14, 2008: Message edited by: subject name here ]

Zemat

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #389 on: June 14, 2008, 04:13:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>I figured I'd give you a bit of time to iron out any succession game scheduling and other matters, so the move won't begin until Saturday June 14th, two weeks from now, around 7PM forum time.</STRONG>

Let me remind you there's still lots of time for posting. So reserve them for 6:55PM.

Oh, and I despise Harlan Ellison.  :p

[ June 14, 2008: Message edited by: Zemat ]

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