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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress 4  (Read 84087 times)

Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #165 on: June 07, 2008, 10:23:00 pm »

The code doesn't really generate any small depressions without the pool placement, so there would need to be additional work for the flagging to create proper ponds.  And with the wet flag, it wasn't about aesthetics, it was about trying to figure out where rain water would pool underground, so calculations were required to get pooling out of what we were talking about.

Rain barrels/containers came up in a suggestion thread and some of our other conversations as well, I think.  It wasn't that the water on the roofs looked silly, it's that water pouring off of them and radiating out in a circle when it's raining everywhere looks silly.

I should be able to put up a parameter list once I've finished it all off.

Yeah, the seeds are still working.  Generating a world with the same seed and other parameters will give rise to the same history and the same events, even if there are millions of them.  I haven't tested Mac vs. PC seeds for a while, and due to compiler differences those are easier to get confused, but even that can be handled if you make sure the random calls are far enough apart not to be reversed, skipped or otherwise mangled.

Lakes are tricky beasts right now...  I think it looks at rainfall more than anything else, but the lakes on the rainy world I posted were pretty pathetic.  It depends on the rivers too.  I could just throw in some number to bias the process.

In general, there are surely going to be a lot of things people want to do that can't be done with the current parameter set.  Unlike before however, it's now easy to just toss them in the list, provided it's not too outlandish.

Yeah, they don't really care about mountains or even oceans for many things during world generation.  There'd need to be more precalcs or else the processor would die (again) and I haven't bothered with much of that since objects like boats and so on aren't defined yet.

I think if the cave number were cut down in these worlds, civilization would have a chance, since the beasts cause most of the trouble.  I tried a few just now with fewer caves, and the civilizations survived, but they didn't spread out at all.  I think this is because the desert doesn't provide enough support, though I didn't look into it specifically.  If that's the problem, you can jack up the desert support figure in the raws if you want them to spread a bit.

Yeah, there were only 9 GCS -- they are rare now.

Regional animal populations don't follow any sort of model at this point -- they just use the population numbers in the raws.  I think there's some dev items that address or at least imply something will be going on here later, but it hasn't come up yet.

The population information was spit out into a txt that's part of the 'p' region export data now.  Since this release has been centered around world gen, I'm for having that information optionally available, though perhaps it can be a world gen parameter so you can set up worlds that can't be spoiled if you want.

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Tahin

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #166 on: June 07, 2008, 10:24:00 pm »

I've considered how awesome it would be to generate a world in Dwarf Fortress and then proceed to use it as a campaign setting. With this next release, it might just be possible.
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SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #167 on: June 07, 2008, 10:27:00 pm »

I was pretty damn impressed with both islands. It's almost TOO perfect to have a nicely shaped island, mountains in the center, and a dark tower situated in them.

Also, are islands isolated from each other? I know we don't have boats...but I didn't know if the game took that into account. If so, can we have basically two separate pocket worlds, each with their own history? I'd be fascinating, if only from an RPing standpoint, to have one island controlled by goblins, another an Elven paradise, and have each coexist without ever knowing the other is there.

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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #168 on: June 07, 2008, 10:30:00 pm »

They'll be separated completely if the water is wide enough.  Civs can currently cross narrow bodies of water in most of their calculations.
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KrunkSplein

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #169 on: June 07, 2008, 10:30:00 pm »

quote:
37: Tosl–sl”mod, "Smutpit", a cave
1 giant
3 giant cave swallows
2 trolls
273 bats
338 cave spiders

I love that there exists a Dwarven word for smut, and that this cave name is possible.  I know it's just me being juvenile, but I couldn't read that log without saying something.

With that out of the way, I can share my chief concern.  I'm worried that with all of these outlandish world types we can make, it may take longer than anticipated for Toady to put in roads.  I have no information to substantiate that fear, but it is my fear nonetheless.

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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #170 on: June 07, 2008, 10:35:00 pm »

Roads are mostly done (there are a bunch of images on dev next), and I don't think the character of the world will mess with any of that code.  Of course, it's surely possible to plug in some parameters that get passed the rejection process and do horrible things, but we'll deal with that as it arises.  None of the worlds I posted had problems I could identify (aside from the ones that are already problems in regular worlds).
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Ghostpaw

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #171 on: June 07, 2008, 10:35:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by SirPenguin:
<STRONG>He's obviously talking about the fact that people bitched that Toady wasn't doing enough non-worldgen things, only to now be praising what he's done, and he's complimenting Toady on not taking the bitching to heart and trucking right through.

I'm sure everyone understood him, stop trying to start shit.</STRONG>


I missed this reply.  Much clearer thanks.  Though I don't know what you mean by taking the bitching to heart and trucking right through.  No I did not understand him.  No, I don't know how I'm starting shit.  I'm starting to think you have a vendetta against me though I have no idea why.

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t''s so sad.  It''s as if De Beers as invaded Dwarf Fortress.  I nearly cried when I saw how valued and rare diamonds were in Dwarf Fortress.

SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #172 on: June 07, 2008, 10:35:00 pm »

Speaking of names, is the "dictionary" of sorts updated with each release or what? I swear I see entirely new names no matter how many times I generate a world.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #173 on: June 07, 2008, 10:46:00 pm »

Yeah, I slip in a hundred or so words every one and a while.  Not sure if I did for this coming release or not.

The first I noticed of Ghostpaw's and SirPenguin's acrimony was over at the Artifacts Sketched thread.  It doesn't need to continue in this thread, or in other threads.  Just don't talk to each other.  If somebody thinks somebody is trolling, drop me a line and I can check up on it, but a direct confrontation is not going to end well for anybody.  I don't care if you've grown to dislike each other intensely.  Don't argue in the threads unless you want to be regarded as part of the problem.

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Ghostpaw

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #174 on: June 07, 2008, 10:53:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>Yeah, I slip in a hundred or so words every one and a while.  Not sure if I did for this coming release or not.

The first I noticed of Ghostpaw's and SirPenguin's acrimony was over at the Artifacts Sketched thread.  It doesn't need to continue in this thread, or in other threads.  Just don't talk to each other.  If somebody thinks somebody is trolling, drop me a line and I can check up on it, but a direct confrontation is not going to end well for anybody.  I don't care if you've grown to dislike each other intensely.  Don't argue in the threads unless you want to be regarded as part of the problem.</STRONG>


Wow you sure have an amazing vocabulary.  Acrimony, what a great word.  What's your greatest source of new words anyways?  Also, if you don't mind me asking, what is this "problem" you are talking about?

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t''s so sad.  It''s as if De Beers as invaded Dwarf Fortress.  I nearly cried when I saw how valued and rare diamonds were in Dwarf Fortress.

Cthulhu

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #175 on: June 07, 2008, 10:55:00 pm »

Question: What does "yor" mean?
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Lord Licorice

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #176 on: June 07, 2008, 10:58:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Ghostpaw:
<STRONG>Wow you sure have an amazing vocabulary.  Acrimony, what a great word.  What's your greatest source of new words anyways?  Also, if you don't mind me asking, what is this "problem" you are talking about?</STRONG>

Excruciatingly obvious troll is excruciating and obvious.

Toady, what's some of the funniest or weirdest stuff you've seen tinkering with the new parameters? The stories in the devlog from the anomalies are some of the best.

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Ghostpaw

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #177 on: June 07, 2008, 11:00:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Licorice:
<STRONG>

Excruciatingly obvious troll is excruciating and obvious.

Toady, what's some of the funniest or weirdest stuff you've seen tinkering with the new parameters? The stories in the devlog from the anomalies are some of the best.</STRONG>


Ok I'm starting to get a little worried here.  It seems people are thinking of me as a bad guy.  What the hell is wrong with making sure you understand things clearly?  Why do you think I ask questions anyways?  I don't like to assume things in case you are wondering.  And what do you mean by troll?  I am doubting it has to do with the creature inside the dwarf fortress game.

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t''s so sad.  It''s as if De Beers as invaded Dwarf Fortress.  I nearly cried when I saw how valued and rare diamonds were in Dwarf Fortress.

Lord Licorice

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #178 on: June 07, 2008, 11:04:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Ghostpaw:
<STRONG>Ok I'm starting to get a little worried here.  It seems people are thinking of me as a bad guy.  What the hell is wrong with making sure you understand things clearly?  Why do you think I ask questions anyways?  I don't like to assume things in case you are wondering.  And what do you mean by troll?  I am doubting it has to do with the creature inside the dwarf fortress game.</STRONG>

Okay, I laughed.   :D

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Aqizzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress 4
« Reply #179 on: June 07, 2008, 11:16:00 pm »

Question for Toady about dictionaries-

I once tried running the translation files through a sorter to put them in alphabetical order by definition, I guess so words would be easier to find in the naming system.  Everything looked fine, but DF just crashed.  I'd have to do it again to remember what the error message said, but it took a while to do.

My questions are, does the program expect the translations to be in a certain order?  Would it be possible to arrange them alphabetically?  I know it's a really minor thing, but talking about dictionaries made me think of it.

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