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[Dwarmin]

Custom worlds will be really useful for modding-you can just load up whatever biome your working on.

[Jreengus]

quote:Originally posted by Leerok the Lacerta:
<STRONG>

I'm going to let the world run for five billion years, set the maximum population at 999 trillion, and see what comes about.</STRONG>

Unless you have a dual+ core then what will come about is you never being able to use your computer again, by the time that world is genned df will be out of alpha.

[Ghostpaw]

quote:Originally posted by thatguyyaknow:
<STRONG>

Unless you have a dual+ core then what will come about is you never being able to use your computer again, by the time that world is genned df will be out of alpha.</STRONG>

Unless the world becomes depopulated by some super mega beast that doesn't reproduce.

[Leerok the Lacerta]

quote:Originally posted by thatguyyaknow:
<STRONG>

Unless you have a dual+ core then what will come about is you never being able to use your computer again, by the time that world is genned df will be out of alpha.</STRONG>

Malthus is a diety. Malthus most often takes the form of a male human and is associated with starvation and balance.

Darwin is a diety. Darwin most often takes the form of a male human and is associated with fitness and decisiveness.

The introduction of genes, mutation, and speciation would make the five billion year simulation quite interesting. Meanwhile, I trust the natural limits of the world to ensure that the population does not reach 999 trillion. Otherwise, there's probably something wrong.

[Kylaer]

With all these additional events happening during world gen, I have to ask: is the simple "seed" number enough to provide randomness to all these events, battles, raids, settlings, and so forth? Or is additional randomness introduced somewhere else?

My big point is, if you use the same seed (say, 101010101) and generate a world twice, will it take the same path each time? Will all the decisions, all the fights, turn out the same? Will all the same NPCs live and die, and end up in identical locations when gameplay begins? I know the terrain will stay the same; I just have difficulty comprehending how a simple seed can contain enough information for all those outcomes.

[Ghostpaw]

quote:Originally posted by Kylaer:
<STRONG>With all these additional events happening during world gen, I have to ask: is the simple "seed" number enough to provide randomness to all these events, battles, raids, settlings, and so forth? Or is additional randomness introduced somewhere else?

My big point is, if you use the same seed (say, 101010101) and generate a world twice, will it take the same path each time? Will all the decisions, all the fights, turn out the same? Will all the same NPCs live and die, and end up in identical locations when gameplay begins? I know the terrain will stay the same; I just have difficulty comprehending how a simple seed can contain enough information for all those outcomes.</STRONG>

That's the point really.  The formula is made to be to complicated to comprehend creating the illusion of randomness.  It's likely that those events, such as hits and misses, use different seeds though.

[ June 07, 2008: Message edited by: Ghostpaw ]

[JT]

A pseudo-random number generator always has a certain "state".  The generator works by applying a mathematical formula to that "state" in order to change the state in a totally-predictible way (because it's just math).  As long as there aren't two different things making use of a seed at unpredictible times, it will always produce the exact same pattern from a seed.

The only time different results can occur is if the program makes "decisions" based on user input or events which are independent from the state of the random number generator.  E.g., if during world gen, it asked you a question every five steps, a seed would be useless because any time you changed your mind, it would produce a different path from that point on.  Likewise, if the world gen occasionally polled your system clock to determine what time it was, and based a decision on that, the path could change.  Either of these events can force a random number to be used at a different time than in another execution.  This is not a problem during world gen in DF, because the world is the only thing using the generator and it doesn't ask anything else for input.

Thing of a PRNG as a "sequence generator", if it helps.  It produces just one number, and from that number you can determine every other number that follows.  Since the result of applying a mathematical formula to the first number will never change, as long as you use the numbers in the same order they will produce the exact same results.

(It's actually slightly more complicated than this, because DF uses a Mersenne Twister which produces batches of 700-some-odd numbers at once.  It then uses these 700 numbers to produce the next 700 numbers.)

[Cthulhu]

That's a lot of words you got there.

Do you think we'll be able to minimize oceans?

I want to do the wasteland/cavey world but with no major bodies of water.

[mutant mell]

If you increase the frequency of high elevation, then it should be tons of mountains and very few oceans.  That is combination with low rainfall should create a barren, rocky, mountainous wasteland.

[Ghostpaw]

quote:Originally posted by mutant mell:
<STRONG>If you increase the frequency of high elevation, then it should be tons of mountains and very few oceans.  That is combination with low rainfall should create a barren, rocky, mountainous wasteland.</STRONG>

Wow how did you manage to use the new world generation parameters so soon?

[Lord Licorice]

quote:Originally posted by Ghostpaw:
<STRONG>Wow how did you manage to use the new world generation parameters so soon?</STRONG>

quote:Originally posted by mutant mell:
<STRONG>If you increase the frequency of high elevation, then it **SHOULD** be tons of mountains and very few oceans.  That is combination with low rainfall **SHOULD** create a barren, rocky, mountainous wasteland.</STRONG>

[Ghostpaw]

I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume the "should" is an important part of his partially gramatically incorrect statement.

[SirPenguin]

Ghostpaw is one of the most annoying asshats I've ever had the displeasure of encountering. Stop nitpicking, and for the love of god, deflate that ego of your's.

[Ghostpaw]

quote:Originally posted by SirPenguin:
<STRONG>Ghostpaw is one of the most annoying asshats I've ever had the displeasure of encountering. Stop nitpicking, and for the love of god, deflate that ego of your's.</STRONG>

That makes me sad.  I didn't mean much by it.

[mutant mell]

quote:Originally posted by Ghostpaw:
<STRONG>I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume the "should" is an important part of his partially gramatically incorrect statement.</STRONG>

First of all, sorry about the grammar.  I just got done with a math final, and thinking in proper English is not my first priority.

Second of all, if you're going to grammar Nazi, then spell correctly in your own post.  Grammatically, not gramatically.

Third of all, I got the following from Toady's DevLog:

"Islands via increased low elevation frequencies."
"No rain (aside from the orographic stuff it forces in), and 10x the number of caves (caves have been made visible in all of these images)."

The second quote is for the wasteland.

If you decrease the rainfall, then there should be a rocky waste.  Then, if you increase the high elevation frequencies, then it should do the opposite of islands.

I apologize for the grammar, like I said, proper English is not currently my highest priority, and I tend to change my mind about what I'm going to type halfway through typing it anyways.