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[Mephansteras]

Is there any way we can get a list of which spheres are opposite one another? Some, like fire and water, are obvious. But a lot of them look like they may or may not have any opposites.

I haven't seen this in the raws anywhere, although that seems like a good place for it, but if this is findable somewhere I'd like to know where it is.

Thanks!

[Capntastic]

I don't think the spheres are really set up to have opposites like rock paper scissors or whatever.   It's just the area that the deity has power over.

[Mephansteras]

But civs can go to war based on what spheres each of the two civs have. I'm trying to figure out which spheres will trigger that.

[Mel_Vixen]

I think its not something  in the code more then just different deitys/spheres. Its like in the real world Christians and moslems believe essentely in the same thing but kill each other over it.

[Toady One]

I'm not sure the raws are a good place for spheres.  If every basic concept with wide-ranging code effects is put in the raws, DF would have to be rewritten in a scripting language to cope with it, or something along those lines.  There might be a place for custom spheres that activate bits of the pre-existing sphere code, but they'd be derivative of the spheres rather than using completely new scripts, which I don't know how to support.  Any rewrite along those lines would probably be too time-consuming at this point.

Spheres have a parent/child list, a friend list, and a preclude list.  A deity has either one or two base spheres, and then they pick friends of those spheres, while never choosing a precluded or parent/child sphere of any of the spheres they already have.  I tried to be pretty lax with the preclude list so that interesting relationships could pop up.  There will obviously be problems and omissions and things here, since I had to match 100+ spheres together several times and no doubt made mistakes.  Feel free to discuss.

Parent/child relationships (note that a sphere can have more than one parent):
      SPHERE_NATURE
         SPHERE_ANIMALS
            SPHERE_FISH
         SPHERE_PLANTS
            SPHERE_TREES
      SPHERE_ART
         SPHERE_DANCE
         SPHERE_MUSIC
         SPHERE_PAINTING
         SPHERE_POETRY
         SPHERE_SONG
      SPHERE_BOUNDARIES
         SPHERE_COASTS
      SPHERE_COURAGE
         SPHERE_VALOR
      SPHERE_EARTH
         SPHERE_METALS
         SPHERE_MINERALS
         SPHERE_SALT
      SPHERE_WATER
         SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_OCEANS
         SPHERE_RIVERS
         SPHERE_RAIN
      SPHERE_WEATHER
         SPHERE_LIGHTNING
         SPHERE_RAIN
         SPHERE_RAINBOWS
         SPHERE_STORMS
         SPHERE_THUNDER
         SPHERE_WIND

Friend relationships:
      SPHERE_AGRICULTURE
         SPHERE_FOOD
         SPHERE_FERTILITY
         SPHERE_RAIN
      SPHERE_ANIMALS
         SPHERE_PLANTS
      SPHERE_ART
         SPHERE_INSPIRATION
         SPHERE_BEAUTY
      SPHERE_BEAUTY
         SPHERE_ART
      SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_CHILDREN
         SPHERE_CREATION
         SPHERE_FAMILY
         SPHERE_MARRIAGE
         SPHERE_PREGNANCY
         SPHERE_REBIRTH
         SPHERE_YOUTH
      SPHERE_BLIGHT
         SPHERE_DISEASE
         SPHERE_DEATH
      SPHERE_CAVERNS
         SPHERE_MOUNTAINS
         SPHERE_EARTH
      SPHERE_CHAOS
         SPHERE_WAR
      SPHERE_CHARITY
         SPHERE_GENEROSITY
         SPHERE_SACRIFICE
      SPHERE_CHILDREN
         SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_FAMILY
         SPHERE_YOUTH
         SPHERE_PREGNANCY
      SPHERE_COASTS
         SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_OCEANS
      SPHERE_CRAFTS
         SPHERE_CREATION
         SPHERE_LABOR
         SPHERE_METALS
      SPHERE_CREATION
         SPHERE_CRAFTS
         SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_PREGNANCY
         SPHERE_REBIRTH
      SPHERE_DANCE
         SPHERE_FESTIVALS
         SPHERE_MUSIC
         SPHERE_REVELRY
      SPHERE_DARKNESS
         SPHERE_NIGHT
      SPHERE_DAWN
         SPHERE_SUN
         SPHERE_TWILIGHT
      SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_LIGHT
         SPHERE_SUN
      SPHERE_DEATH
         SPHERE_BLIGHT
         SPHERE_DISEASE
         SPHERE_MURDER
         SPHERE_REBIRTH
         SPHERE_SUICIDE
         SPHERE_WAR
      SPHERE_DEFORMITY
         SPHERE_DISEASE
      SPHERE_DEPRAVITY
         SPHERE_LUST
      SPHERE_DISCIPLINE
         SPHERE_LAWS
         SPHERE_ORDER
      SPHERE_DISEASE
         SPHERE_BLIGHT
         SPHERE_DEATH
         SPHERE_DEFORMITY
      SPHERE_DREAMS
         SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_NIGHTMARES
      SPHERE_DUSK
         SPHERE_TWILIGHT
      SPHERE_DUTY
         SPHERE_ORDER
      SPHERE_EARTH
         SPHERE_CAVERNS
         SPHERE_MOUNTAINS
         SPHERE_VOLCANOS
      SPHERE_FAMILY
         SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_CHILDREN
         SPHERE_MARRIAGE
         SPHERE_PREGNANCY
      SPHERE_FAME
         SPHERE_RUMORS
      SPHERE_FERTILITY
         SPHERE_AGRICULTURE
         SPHERE_FOOD
         SPHERE_RAIN
      SPHERE_FESTIVALS
         SPHERE_DANCE
         SPHERE_MUSIC
         SPHERE_REVELRY
         SPHERE_SONG
      SPHERE_FIRE
         SPHERE_METALS
         SPHERE_SUN
         SPHERE_VOLCANOS
      SPHERE_FISH
         SPHERE_OCEANS
         SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_RIVERS
         SPHERE_WATER
         SPHERE_FISHING
      SPHERE_FISHING
         SPHERE_FISH
         SPHERE_HUNTING
      SPHERE_FOOD
         SPHERE_AGRICULTURE
         SPHERE_FERTILITY
      SPHERE_FORGIVENESS
         SPHERE_MERCY
      SPHERE_FORTRESSES
         SPHERE_WAR
      SPHERE_GAMBLING
         SPHERE_GAMES
         SPHERE_LUCK
      SPHERE_GAMES
         SPHERE_GAMBLING
         SPHERE_LUCK
      SPHERE_GENEROSITY
         SPHERE_CHARITY
         SPHERE_SACRIFICE
      SPHERE_HAPPINESS
         SPHERE_REVELRY
      SPHERE_HUNTING
         SPHERE_FISHING
      SPHERE_INSPIRATION
         SPHERE_ART
         SPHERE_PAINTING
         SPHERE_POETRY
      SPHERE_JEWELS
         SPHERE_MINERALS
         SPHERE_WEALTH
      SPHERE_JUSTICE
         SPHERE_LAWS
      SPHERE_LABOR
         SPHERE_CRAFTS
      SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_COASTS
         SPHERE_FISH
         SPHERE_OCEANS
         SPHERE_RIVERS
      SPHERE_LAWS
         SPHERE_DISCIPLINE
         SPHERE_JUSTICE
         SPHERE_OATHS
         SPHERE_ORDER
      SPHERE_LIES
         SPHERE_TREACHERY
         SPHERE_TRICKERY
      SPHERE_LIGHT
         SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_RAINBOWS
         SPHERE_SUN
      SPHERE_LIGHTNING
         SPHERE_RAIN
         SPHERE_STORMS
         SPHERE_THUNDER
      SPHERE_LONGEVITY
         SPHERE_YOUTH
      SPHERE_LOYALTY
         SPHERE_OATHS
      SPHERE_LUCK
         SPHERE_GAMBLING
         SPHERE_GAMES
      SPHERE_LUST
         SPHERE_DEPRAVITY
      SPHERE_MARRIAGE
         SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_FAMILY
         SPHERE_OATHS
         SPHERE_PREGNANCY
      SPHERE_MERCY
         SPHERE_FORGIVENESS
      SPHERE_METALS
         SPHERE_CRAFTS
         SPHERE_FIRE
         SPHERE_MINERALS
      SPHERE_MINERALS
         SPHERE_JEWELS
         SPHERE_METALS
      SPHERE_MISERY
         SPHERE_TORTURE
      SPHERE_MOON
         SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_SKY
      SPHERE_MOUNTAINS
         SPHERE_CAVERNS
         SPHERE_EARTH
         SPHERE_VOLCANOS
      SPHERE_MURDER
         SPHERE_DEATH
      SPHERE_MUSIC
         SPHERE_DANCE
         SPHERE_FESTIVALS
         SPHERE_REVELRY
         SPHERE_SONG
      SPHERE_NATURE
         SPHERE_RAIN
         SPHERE_SUN
         SPHERE_WATER
         SPHERE_WEATHER
      SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_DARKNESS
         SPHERE_DREAMS
         SPHERE_MOON
         SPHERE_NIGHTMARES
         SPHERE_STARS
      SPHERE_NIGHTMARES
         SPHERE_DREAMS
         SPHERE_NIGHT
      SPHERE_OATHS
         SPHERE_LAWS
         SPHERE_LOYALTY
         SPHERE_MARRIAGE
      SPHERE_OCEANS
         SPHERE_COASTS
         SPHERE_FISH
         SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_RIVERS
         SPHERE_SALT
      SPHERE_ORDER
         SPHERE_DISCIPLINE
         SPHERE_DUTY
         SPHERE_LAWS
      SPHERE_PAINTING
         SPHERE_INSPIRATION
      SPHERE_PERSUASION
         SPHERE_POETRY
         SPHERE_SPEECH
      SPHERE_PLANTS
         SPHERE_ANIMALS
         SPHERE_RAIN
      SPHERE_POETRY
         SPHERE_INSPIRATION
         SPHERE_PERSUASION
         SPHERE_SONG
         SPHERE_WRITING
      SPHERE_PREGNANCY
         SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_CHILDREN
         SPHERE_CREATION
         SPHERE_FAMILY
         SPHERE_MARRIAGE
      SPHERE_RAIN
         SPHERE_AGRICULTURE
         SPHERE_FERTILITY
         SPHERE_LIGHTNING
         SPHERE_NATURE
         SPHERE_PLANTS
         SPHERE_RAINBOWS
         SPHERE_STORMS
         SPHERE_THUNDER
         SPHERE_TREES
      SPHERE_RAINBOWS
         SPHERE_LIGHT
         SPHERE_RAIN
         SPHERE_SKY
      SPHERE_REBIRTH
         SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_CREATION
         SPHERE_DEATH
      SPHERE_REVELRY
         SPHERE_DANCE
         SPHERE_FESTIVALS
         SPHERE_HAPPINESS
         SPHERE_MUSIC
         SPHERE_SONG
      SPHERE_RIVERS
         SPHERE_FISH
         SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_OCEANS
      SPHERE_RUMORS
         SPHERE_FAME
      SPHERE_SACRIFICE
         SPHERE_CHARITY
         SPHERE_GENEROSITY
      SPHERE_SALT
         SPHERE_OCEANS
      SPHERE_SCHOLARSHIP
         SPHERE_WISDOM
         SPHERE_WRITING
      SPHERE_SKY
         SPHERE_MOON
         SPHERE_RAINBOWS
         SPHERE_SUN
         SPHERE_STARS
         SPHERE_WEATHER
         SPHERE_WIND
      SPHERE_SONG
         SPHERE_FESTIVALS
         SPHERE_MUSIC
         SPHERE_POETRY
         SPHERE_REVELRY
      SPHERE_SPEECH
         SPHERE_PERSUASION
      SPHERE_STARS
         SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_SKY
      SPHERE_STORMS
         SPHERE_LIGHTNING
         SPHERE_RAIN
         SPHERE_THUNDER
      SPHERE_SUICIDE
         SPHERE_DEATH
      SPHERE_SUN
         SPHERE_DAWN
         SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_FIRE
         SPHERE_LIGHT
         SPHERE_NATURE
         SPHERE_SKY
      SPHERE_THUNDER
         SPHERE_LIGHTNING
         SPHERE_RAIN
         SPHERE_STORMS
      SPHERE_TORTURE
         SPHERE_MISERY
      SPHERE_TRADE
         SPHERE_WEALTH
      SPHERE_TREACHERY
         SPHERE_LIES
         SPHERE_TRICKERY
      SPHERE_TREES
         SPHERE_RAIN
      SPHERE_TRICKERY
         SPHERE_LIES
         SPHERE_TREACHERY
      SPHERE_TWILIGHT
         SPHERE_DAWN
         SPHERE_DUSK
      SPHERE_VALOR
         SPHERE_WAR
      SPHERE_VICTORY
         SPHERE_WAR
      SPHERE_VOLCANOS
         SPHERE_EARTH
         SPHERE_FIRE
         SPHERE_MOUNTAINS
      SPHERE_WAR
         SPHERE_CHAOS
         SPHERE_DEATH
         SPHERE_FORTRESSES
         SPHERE_VALOR
         SPHERE_VICTORY
      SPHERE_WATER
         SPHERE_FISH
         SPHERE_NATURE
      SPHERE_WEALTH
         SPHERE_JEWELS
         SPHERE_TRADE
      SPHERE_WEATHER
         SPHERE_NATURE
         SPHERE_SKY
      SPHERE_WIND
         SPHERE_SKY
      SPHERE_WISDOM
         SPHERE_SCHOLARSHIP
      SPHERE_WRITING
         SPHERE_POETRY
         SPHERE_SCHOLARSHIP
      SPHERE_YOUTH
         SPHERE_BIRTH
         SPHERE_CHILDREN
         SPHERE_LONGEVITY

Preclude relationships:
      SPHERE_BEAUTY
         SPHERE_BLIGHT
         SPHERE_DEFORMITY
         SPHERE_DISEASE
         SPHERE_MUCK
      SPHERE_BLIGHT
         SPHERE_BEAUTY
         SPHERE_FOOD
         SPHERE_FERTILITY
         SPHERE_HEALING
      SPHERE_CHAOS
         SPHERE_DISCIPLINE
         SPHERE_ORDER
         SPHERE_LAWS
      SPHERE_CHARITY
         SPHERE_JEALOUSY
      SPHERE_CONSOLATION
         SPHERE_MISERY
      SPHERE_DARKNESS
         SPHERE_DAWN
         SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_LIGHT
         SPHERE_TWILIGHT
         SPHERE_SUN
      SPHERE_DAWN
         SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_DARKNESS
      SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_DARKNESS
         SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_DAWN
         SPHERE_DUSK
         SPHERE_DREAMS
         SPHERE_NIGHTMARES
         SPHERE_TWILIGHT
      SPHERE_DEATH
         SPHERE_HEALING
         SPHERE_LONGEVITY
         SPHERE_YOUTH
      SPHERE_DEFORMITY
         SPHERE_BEAUTY
      SPHERE_DEPRAVITY
         SPHERE_LAWS
      SPHERE_DISCIPLINE
         SPHERE_CHAOS
      SPHERE_DISEASE
         SPHERE_BEAUTY
         SPHERE_HEALING
      SPHERE_DREAMS
         SPHERE_DAY
      SPHERE_DUSK
         SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_DAY
      SPHERE_FAME
         SPHERE_SILENCE
      SPHERE_FATE
         SPHERE_LUCK
      SPHERE_FERTILITY
         SPHERE_BLIGHT
      SPHERE_FESTIVALS
         SPHERE_MISERY
      SPHERE_FIRE
         SPHERE_WATER
         SPHERE_OCEANS
         SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_RIVERS
      SPHERE_FOOD
         SPHERE_BLIGHT
      SPHERE_FORGIVENESS
         SPHERE_REVENGE
      SPHERE_FREEDOM
         SPHERE_ORDER
      SPHERE_HAPPINESS
         SPHERE_MISERY
      SPHERE_HEALING
         SPHERE_DISEASE
         SPHERE_BLIGHT
         SPHERE_DEATH
      SPHERE_JEALOUSY
         SPHERE_CHARITY
      SPHERE_LAKES
         SPHERE_FIRE
      SPHERE_LAWS
         SPHERE_CHAOS
         SPHERE_DEPRAVITY
         SPHERE_MURDER
         SPHERE_THEFT
      SPHERE_LIES
         SPHERE_TRUTH
      SPHERE_LIGHT
         SPHERE_DARKNESS
         SPHERE_TWILIGHT
      SPHERE_LONGEVITY
         SPHERE_DEATH
      SPHERE_LOYALTY
         SPHERE_TREACHERY
      SPHERE_LUCK
         SPHERE_FATE
      SPHERE_MERCY
         SPHERE_REVENGE
      SPHERE_MISERY
         SPHERE_CONSOLATION
         SPHERE_FESTIVALS
         SPHERE_REVELRY
         SPHERE_HAPPINESS
      SPHERE_MUCK
         SPHERE_BEAUTY
      SPHERE_MURDER
         SPHERE_LAWS
      SPHERE_MUSIC
         SPHERE_SILENCE
      SPHERE_NIGHT
         SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_DAWN
         SPHERE_DUSK
         SPHERE_TWILIGHT
      SPHERE_NIGHTMARES
         SPHERE_DAY
      SPHERE_OATHS
         SPHERE_TREACHERY
      SPHERE_OCEANS
         SPHERE_FIRE
      SPHERE_ORDER
         SPHERE_CHAOS
         SPHERE_FREEDOM
      SPHERE_REVELRY
         SPHERE_MISERY
      SPHERE_REVENGE
         SPHERE_FORGIVENESS
         SPHERE_MERCY
      SPHERE_RIVERS
         SPHERE_FIRE
      SPHERE_SACRIFICE
         SPHERE_WEALTH
      SPHERE_SILENCE
         SPHERE_FAME
         SPHERE_MUSIC
      SPHERE_SUN
         SPHERE_DARKNESS
      SPHERE_THEFT
         SPHERE_LAWS
         SPHERE_TRADE
      SPHERE_TRADE
         SPHERE_THEFT
      SPHERE_TREACHERY
         SPHERE_LOYALTY
         SPHERE_OATHS
      SPHERE_TRICKERY
         SPHERE_TRUTH
      SPHERE_TRUTH
         SPHERE_LIES
         SPHERE_TRICKERY
      SPHERE_TWILIGHT
         SPHERE_LIGHT
         SPHERE_DARKNESS
         SPHERE_DAY
         SPHERE_NIGHT
      SPHERE_WATER
         SPHERE_FIRE
      SPHERE_WEALTH
         SPHERE_SACRIFICE
      SPHERE_YOUTH
         SPHERE_DEATH

[Mephansteras]

Awesome, just what I was looking for! 

Time to update the Wiki, I think.

On that note, I assume the precludes are the relationships that will make two civs possibly go to war with one another? How does that work, exactly?

[Zai]

Time to update the Wiki, I think.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Untelligent]

On that note, I assume the precludes are the relationships that will make two civs possibly go to war with one another? How does that work, exactly?

The word "preclude" seems to indicate more so that a deity with two spheres can't be, for example, a god of both chaos and order. I'm not sure if it affects wars and such, you'd have to wait for Toady to post again.

[Toady One]

Yeah, the preclude list is used in two places.  First, to create deities, then during personal evaluations of enemy cultures/rulers.  If an enemy ruler, say, worships beauty, and you worship deformity, you'll have a negative impression.  However, it also does a check against the parent/child/friend list of the enemy's spheres -- so if you worship deformity and art, then your art worship will offset the deformity worship and the enemy's beauty worship will be ignored.

[Mephansteras]

Ok, good. I thought it might work that way.

This'll really help when trying to balance what races will attack each other when modding.

[Arkenstone]

Erm... Toady, I've been looking over the latest raws, and it seems that this list is obsolete.   If it's not too much to ask, could you maybe provide an updated version?  It's ok though if you're too busy to do so, as most of the new relationships are easy enough to figure out.

[Toady One]

I don't remember changing much if anything, though there might have been something.  What is it about the raws that made you think the list was obsolete?

[Mr Frog]

I seem to recall that the  properties of the DATA EXPUNGED in 40d depended on the sphere alignments of the creatures inside. For example, a pit inhabited by CENSORED is smeared with "unidentified white substance" because they have the [SPHERE:DEPRAVITY] tag. Did every sphere (within reason, of course) have an effect, or was it just the default spheres that affected the layout?

[Footkerchief]

Just the spheres associated with demons in vanilla.  The spheres have a few other effects scattered through the game -- certain spheres can influence the architecture of temples, for instance.

[Mr Frog]

Thought so. The temples are a neat touch though -- I once made an adventurer just to visit all the temples and see what causes what. Little touches like that are what set this game apart from the other ridiculously complex RTS-Roguelike hybrids.