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Author Topic: Worldgen cookbook  (Read 165393 times)

Tcei

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #300 on: June 14, 2009, 05:26:00 pm »
Here's a nice map I recently gen'd

The elves are at war with one of the dwarf civs, according to legends the dwarves have gone to war with just about every elven civ there is. After several sucsessful takeovers the elves suddenly started wining defeating the dwarves in several battles. The end result now is that the civ that's at war with the elves is made of a mix of elf and dwarf. Down side is there is no liason and if there is a king/queen it looks like it may be an elf.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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gtmattz

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #301 on: June 22, 2009, 10:23:42 pm »
Quote from: Calenth on July 19, 2008, 02:08:51 pm
Here's mine. It's a combination of ideas from others in this thread and my own tweaking; basically, the idea is to generate fort sites that have everything -- trees, magma, sand, water, flux, adamantine, evil good AND neutral biomes, etc. After a lot of tweaking, I've generated about ten worlds with this template. Every map had a site that was at least useable, if not perfect (i.e., no sand, or the adamantine and volcano were too far apart, etc.), and i've found a couple that were excellent.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Savagery is restricted to a middle range so that you'll primarily get haunted/wilderness/mirthful biomes (largely because I had problems with giant skeletal eagle infestations in the first few good locations I generated). Temperature is restricted to (mostly) temperate, with some cold edges. Megabeast levels are set high because I want megabeast attacks, so the history will only run 50 or so years.

One thing about this set is that it walks very close to a few borders -- sometimes you'll get a "too many subregions' rejection even though I have that set to the maximum of 5000, sometimes you'll get an error because there aren't enough squares left to make as many evil/good squares as desired, sometimes there won't be enough room to place civilizations. But you shouldn't get more than one or two rejections.



I have made a 1/4 scale version of this to make finding that perfect site a little easier for those of us with slower computers:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I essentially just cut the dimensions down to 65x65 and then quartered the parameters that were causing rejections.
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Shoku

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #302 on: June 23, 2009, 01:05:40 am »
Quote from: gtmattz on June 22, 2009, 10:23:42 pm
Quote from: Calenth on July 19, 2008, 02:08:51 pm
Here's mine. It's a combination of ideas from others in this thread and my own tweaking; basically, the idea is to generate fort sites that have everything -- trees, magma, sand, water, flux, adamantine, evil good AND neutral biomes, etc. After a lot of tweaking, I've generated about ten worlds with this template. Every map had a site that was at least useable, if not perfect (i.e., no sand, or the adamantine and volcano were too far apart, etc.), and i've found a couple that were excellent.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Savagery is restricted to a middle range so that you'll primarily get haunted/wilderness/mirthful biomes (largely because I had problems with giant skeletal eagle infestations in the first few good locations I generated). Temperature is restricted to (mostly) temperate, with some cold edges. Megabeast levels are set high because I want megabeast attacks, so the history will only run 50 or so years.

One thing about this set is that it walks very close to a few borders -- sometimes you'll get a "too many subregions' rejection even though I have that set to the maximum of 5000, sometimes you'll get an error because there aren't enough squares left to make as many evil/good squares as desired, sometimes there won't be enough room to place civilizations. But you shouldn't get more than one or two rejections.



I have made a 1/4 scale version of this to make finding that perfect site a little easier for those of us with slower computers:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I essentially just cut the dimensions down to 65x65 and then quartered the parameters that were causing rejections.
that's not the same-
2*2=4
8*8=64
4 =/= ¼ 64

you have to 16th the parameters to scale it down like that.
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gtmattz

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #303 on: June 23, 2009, 12:26:40 pm »
Whatever, it generates a world that is 65x65 that has the same layout and features as the 257x257 'Workin' world, that is what counts isn't it?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 12:32:20 pm by gtmattz »
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Shoku

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #304 on: June 23, 2009, 04:51:05 pm »
Quote from: gtmattz on June 23, 2009, 12:26:40 pm
Whatever, it generates a world that is 65x65 that has the same layout and features as the 257x257 'Workin' world, that is what counts isn't it?
I'm saying it doesn't give the same layout. If you go from 257x257 down to 65x65 but only divide the such and such evil squares count by four that's like having 4x as much evil region per area. Divide it by 16 if you want to scale it down the same.

..though you'd also need to turn the variance way up to keep the layout the same but smaller and I don't think it goes high enough for that...
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Grimlocke

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #305 on: June 23, 2009, 06:08:29 pm »
Quote from: Shoku on June 23, 2009, 04:51:05 pm
I'm saying it doesn't give the same layout. If you go from 257x257 down to 65x65 but only divide the such and such evil squares count by four that's like having 4x as much evil region per area. Divide it by 16 if you want to scale it down the same.

..though you'd also need to turn the variance way up to keep the layout the same but smaller and I don't think it goes high enough for that...
Variance depends on map size. On 17x17 maps, you can make crazy mountain peaks in the middle of low land that are only a few 48x48 tiles wide. Those are cool, having spires-like mountain peaks more then a 100 z-levels high, but my comp doesnt like them and groans at an appaling 50 fps at embark.

Anyways, the same variance would never be doing that on a 257x257 world. Seems variance is divided by map dimensions.
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gtmattz

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #306 on: June 23, 2009, 08:55:04 pm »
Quote from: Shoku on June 23, 2009, 04:51:05 pm
Quote from: gtmattz on June 23, 2009, 12:26:40 pm
Whatever, it generates a world that is 65x65 that has the same layout and features as the 257x257 'Workin' world, that is what counts isn't it?
I'm saying it doesn't give the same layout. If you go from 257x257 down to 65x65 but only divide the such and such evil squares count by four that's like having 4x as much evil region per area. Divide it by 16 if you want to scale it down the same.

..though you'd also need to turn the variance way up to keep the layout the same but smaller and I don't think it goes high enough for that...

Whatever... Just gen worlds with both sets and compare the features etc and you will see the same effective world, just smaller (and hence faster to gen), that is all I care about... I am not sure why you are so concerned with proving your point, other than to try and start some sort of forum drama, which I do not care to partake in.
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Shoku

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #307 on: June 25, 2009, 05:05:11 pm »
Quote from: Grimlocke on June 23, 2009, 06:08:29 pm
Quote from: Shoku on June 23, 2009, 04:51:05 pm
I'm saying it doesn't give the same layout. If you go from 257x257 down to 65x65 but only divide the such and such evil squares count by four that's like having 4x as much evil region per area. Divide it by 16 if you want to scale it down the same.

..though you'd also need to turn the variance way up to keep the layout the same but smaller and I don't think it goes high enough for that...
Variance depends on map size. On 17x17 maps, you can make crazy mountain peaks in the middle of low land that are only a few 48x48 tiles wide. Those are cool, having spires-like mountain peaks more then a 100 z-levels high, but my comp doesnt like them and groans at an appaling 50 fps at embark.

Anyways, the same variance would never be doing that on a 257x257 world. Seems variance is divided by map dimensions.
Ah, maybe that's why I never see magma pipes coming up through flux.

Quote from: gtmattz on June 23, 2009, 08:55:04 pm
Quote from: Shoku on June 23, 2009, 04:51:05 pm
Quote from: gtmattz on June 23, 2009, 12:26:40 pm
Whatever, it generates a world that is 65x65 that has the same layout and features as the 257x257 'Workin' world, that is what counts isn't it?
I'm saying it doesn't give the same layout. If you go from 257x257 down to 65x65 but only divide the such and such evil squares count by four that's like having 4x as much evil region per area. Divide it by 16 if you want to scale it down the same.

..though you'd also need to turn the variance way up to keep the layout the same but smaller and I don't think it goes high enough for that...

Whatever... Just gen worlds with both sets and compare the features etc and you will see the same effective world, just smaller (and hence faster to gen), that is all I care about... I am not sure why you are so concerned with proving your point, other than to try and start some sort of forum drama, which I do not care to partake in.
Because you're WRONG!!!1!

With what I just learned about variance you would be genning a world just as much like the larger one if you had left those values alone.

Shoku only grumbles mildly at inclement drama, but I'm making a big deal out of this for understanding. If more people know what values do what then we'll see more interesting worlds being made instead of people making things differently than they intended.

Now, if you wanted to just take a 1/4th width and 1/4th height slice out of the larger map then what you should do is divide the variance values by 4. See what we learn when we bicker? All kinds of stuff =D
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 05:10:35 pm by Shoku »
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G-Flex

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #308 on: June 25, 2009, 05:31:33 pm »
Quote from: gtmattz on June 23, 2009, 08:55:04 pm
Quote from: Shoku on June 23, 2009, 04:51:05 pm
Quote from: gtmattz on June 23, 2009, 12:26:40 pm
Whatever, it generates a world that is 65x65 that has the same layout and features as the 257x257 'Workin' world, that is what counts isn't it?
I'm saying it doesn't give the same layout. If you go from 257x257 down to 65x65 but only divide the such and such evil squares count by four that's like having 4x as much evil region per area. Divide it by 16 if you want to scale it down the same.

..though you'd also need to turn the variance way up to keep the layout the same but smaller and I don't think it goes high enough for that...

Whatever... Just gen worlds with both sets and compare the features etc and you will see the same effective world, just smaller (and hence faster to gen), that is all I care about... I am not sure why you are so concerned with proving your point, other than to try and start some sort of forum drama, which I do not care to partake in.

I don't think anyone's trying to start drama here. You were just getting corrected on a point regarding how you made your worldgen parameters, and it was a good point to make. It's not really a big deal, and any drama created is probably just from you saying "whatever..." with every reply and making a big deal out of it.

A couple good points were made here, especially concerning the variance settings.. I never really knew those worked that way myself.

Oh, and for the record, there are definitely things map size affects that you can't correct for on a different size. I know that tropical vs. temperate biome selection is one of them (smaller than Large maps don't seem to get tropics at all), but if there are others I'm not sure what they are.
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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #309 on: June 25, 2009, 05:54:24 pm »
Hi people
i am playing on a laptop so i play much nano fortresses, and it is quite addictive ... tougth i have hard time to find "the perfect" site for that, (i am looking on smaller worlds cause FPS and speed of genning it, that migth be the problem too)
So i am looking for the ultimate nano fortress map, so i tougth if someone had alredy got it i would be happy to know the seed for it... (i use Mayday with many modifications so precis your mods used too please i don't care playing on other versions tougth)
so what it means for me the ultimate nano fortress map (the preferences in order but the best would be if all is there):

Fortress site Site: (1 tile)
-magma pipe,
-aquifire (to have water)
-sand
-multiple soil layers covering completly the pipe (cause more place to farm, and easier to deal with aquifier)
-evil forest biom (so phantom spiders are present)

Civil acceses:
-even elves are needed for nano fortresses 'cause trade is vital
-dwarven civ has many resources: mostly bauxit is needed to make use of magma, others are nice to have too)

Thanks for anybody who could help me finding this site ...
PS.: sorry for my english, havent praticed it for long time ...
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Shoku

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #310 on: June 25, 2009, 10:08:37 pm »
Seems like you can't get muliple layers of ice on medium either.
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gtmattz

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #311 on: June 27, 2009, 02:40:44 am »
Quote from: Shoku on June 25, 2009, 05:05:11 pm
Because you're WRONG!!!1!

I humbly and respectfully apologize for my pomposity and surliness in my previous posts.

After reading more and spending mroe time with experimentation I now understand better how things are working (although I admit I still ave much to learn).

I see now how my parameters do generate a world with marked differences to the one I was trying to base my settings off of.
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Dragooble

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #312 on: June 28, 2009, 07:23:54 pm »
hey guys, i REALLY hope something like this hasn't been posted before because i'm not sure what to search for and i don't feel like looking through the whole thread. im looking for a way to gen a world that has a lot of diversity. like say, very small evil good and normal areas all next to each other, kind of like a patchwork quilt. do you get the idea of what i'm talking about? i'm really not sure how to explain it.
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Quote from: blah28722 on August 02, 2009, 09:59:32 am
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gtmattz

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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #313 on: June 29, 2009, 01:53:08 pm »
Quote from: Dragooble on June 28, 2009, 07:23:54 pm
hey guys, i REALLY hope something like this hasn't been posted before because i'm not sure what to search for and i don't feel like looking through the whole thread. im looking for a way to gen a world that has a lot of diversity. like say, very small evil good and normal areas all next to each other, kind of like a patchwork quilt. do you get the idea of what i'm talking about? i'm really not sure how to explain it.

The 'workin' set of parameters is a large world that has what you describe.  I have also been working on scaling it down to a 65x65 size world and have posted my results a bit further up this page.
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Re: Worldgen cookbook
« Reply #314 on: June 30, 2009, 01:36:11 am »
Set all of the rejection parameters to zero (or copy and paste almost any recipe and then make the following changes to it)
Set all of the variance values to 1600.
Set the desired good and evil values to 1/3rd of the map area.

Variance scales with world size so making it smaller will give you more extreme differences in elevation or rock types or temperature. Good, evil, and neutral areas just get applied to the biomes that are already there so if you don't have any large biomes you won't get any large evil biomes, though you may still get an evil forest next to evil hills next to an evil mountain next to an evil ocean and so on.

If variance doesn't paint an awesome enough world for you you can actuall go into painter mode and make a quilt, though good-evil will still get applied during world gen.

-

I've messed around with painter a little more and found that like a lot of things pressure doesn't flow diagonally.
Well, what I mean about that if that the regions aren't aware of each other in any but the + directions. So while a row of 400 elevation will give a contiguous mountains a diagonal line will give you many region tiles with a roughly circular cluster of mountains. The size is pretty random and 1000 erosion cycles is basically guaranteed to give your dwarves no functional places to lay down a mountain home but this is more useful for what I really wanted to see: volcanism.

It's harder to see quite what shape volcanism tries to make and if there's a default to higher or lower values for edges since I think it does quite a bit of conforming to the other biomes but judging by the presence of pipes the lower value regions extend into the higher value ones at least close to all of the time with diagonals. Without any superior design this means that anyone with the time to sit through drawing a checkerboard in painter will be able to get 50% of their region tile to have both magma and sedimentary rock layers.

*to avoid carpel tunnel I recommend that you only do one horizontal line, save it, and then edit the text file so the second line is a copy but offset by one position and then copy and paste those over the rest of the painter text.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 02:30:37 am by Shoku »
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