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[Wooty]

The entire goblin and elf system is built around the goblins being evil (demon lord of torture and death that flings fireballs, seiges, killing each other, baby theft, ambushes, no trade or diplomacy, live in dark towers) and the elves being hippie tree huggers (skinny and weak, respect nature, at peace with wildlife, trading and diplomacy, never retaliate against violence, live in tree houses or something, make clothes out of reeds). When the goblins are suddenly peaceful and the elves are suddenly violent jerks, it just seems weird and wrong.

[Tiler]

So... it fits right in with Dwarf Fortress, then?

[Jamuk]

It only seems wrong because of the preestablished mythology.  I think we should start our own, who needs pale, skinny pansy elves when you can have pale, skinny maneating elves?  Plus do the goblins ever do anything THAT evil? The dwarves in DF do more evil stuff than the goblins do... don't you pay attention to the stories about legendary dwarves slaughtering whole fortresses?

[Neonivek]

Elves were always violent Jerks... but now they are Sociopathic Violent Jerks...

They are like everything bad ever said about Ecoterrorists come true!

[Keiseth]

These aren't your parents elves and dwarves. Our dwarves trance and our elves eat the dead. Is this not awesome?

[PTTG??]

Elves were always violent Jerks... but now they are Sociopathic Violent Jerks...

They are like everything bad ever said about Ecoterrorists come true!

Are you saying... that they are liberals... who commit crimes/ are criminally insane... and are in squads?

Hmm... it seems that all of toady one's artifacts have engravings of liberals, surrounded by liberals, committing a depraved act.

[Erk]

IMHO, the new evil elves and peaceful goblins rock, why do we have to follow the mythology of other games?  DF is a different game, and in the DF community elves are generally more disliked than goblins.  I mean, goblins bring us gifts of metal and clothes! Why should we fight those who help us?  The  tree huggers who want us to follow their misguided ideas are the true villains.  Those pompous jerks consider the rats and flies that inhabit the world more precious than the people in it! I say let their true evil ways shine through! No longer shall we listen as we are told what to do!  I say they should be differentiated even further!  Nobody likes those pretty boys anyway.  The goblins have more in common with the dwarves than those elves do.  At least they understand what really matters, monetary value.  They're willing to fight for valuables just like the dwarves do as well.  Why not strike a truce up? There are plenty of shiny trinkets for both races.  The dwarves and goblins could kill the hordes of immortal scum if they worked together.

I'm not bothered by elves being violent and cannibalistic, I love that. But it's too far on the extreme right now for reasons you have just described: Goblins no longer bring us gifts of nice narrow melty stuff, because they "trade" or whatever they call it these days. Likewise, elves no longer bring us handy wood to make beds from and handy diplomats to drown, instead they raid our fortresses and leave a pile of useless (utterly so) wooden gear outside our walls, that which is not incinerated in the magma flow.

In other words, killing elves and killer elves are fun, but I would like some of my enemies to use gear made of metal, if ye please. In my game I have raw-modded the goblins to be more cannibalistic, and turned the elves' cannibalism down just a notch (to "personal matter"). It's helped a little.

[Earthquake Damage]

leave a pile of useless (utterly so) wooden gear outside our walls, that which is not incinerated in the magma flow.

Try the following reaction (and similar ones for armor, boots, gloves, etc):

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:WEAPON_WOOD_ASH]
[NAME:burn weapon to ash]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:WEAPON:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:NO_MATGLOSS]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:ASH:NO_MATGLOSS]

[REACTION:WEAPON_WOOD_CHARCOAL]
[NAME:burn weapon to charcoal]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:WEAPON:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:NO_MATGLOSS]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:COAL:NO_MATGLOSS]
Alternately, create a new wood type (plywood?) and add reactions to convert useless wooden crap into logs.

[Erk]

Cheating to make the stuff charcoalable doesn't mean elves drop stuff as good as what gobs do, it just means you've made a cheat to turn something you have lots of into something you want more of

But don't get me wrong. I like the current elves... I just want to see them slightly less bellicose, while goblins regain some of their previous cruelty. I don't want the flavour of current elves changed entirely, I love the cannibal fey.

[Keilden]

I am going to make one of these zergelfs in Spore:)

[Earthquake Damage]

Cheating to make the stuff charcoalable doesn't mean elves drop stuff as good as what gobs do, it just means you've made a cheat to turn something you have lots of into something you want more of

It sounds like you define "cheat" as "something the developer didn't put into the game by default."  Under your definition, using codes like IDKFA in Doom isn't cheating.  It's just a "feature."

If you think burning wooden weapons, barrels, blocks, and assorted clutter to ash is too much of a gimme on account of the item:ash ratio, you can easily tweak the reaction to suit your idea of game balance.

[RavingManiac]

When Toady finishes the army arc and allows us to send troops onto the world map...

It is GENOCIDE time!

[Techhead]

Whatever happened to that guy with the psycho elf avatar?
You know, the picture of a hungry elf that creeps some people out.
I saw him all over the place BEFORE the release, now I don't.

[Erk]

Whatever happened to that guy with the psycho elf avatar?
You know, the picture of a hungry elf that creeps some people out.
I saw him all over the place BEFORE the release, now I don't.

His people came, and took him back to the world that can finally accept him.

It sounds like you define "cheat" as "something the developer didn't put into the game by default."  Under your definition, using codes like IDKFA in Doom isn't cheating.  It's just a "feature."

If you think burning wooden weapons, barrels, blocks, and assorted clutter to ash is too much of a gimme on account of the item:ash ratio, you can easily tweak the reaction to suit your idea of game balance.

Nah, heck no. I actually DO cheat all the time in DF anyway. I'm just voicing the POV a lot of people would have about that kind of reaction setup. Namely, sure you could mod in something to make wooden armour useful, but by default it is just garbage.

[Earthquake Damage]

Yes, by default it is garbage.  But now you can dispose of it the dwarven way:  fire for the forge!

Also, yeah, I inferred from your post that you took that POV.

I too am a dirty rotten cheater, but being a cheater gives you a better perspective as to what can and cannot reasonably be called cheating.  Burning wood in a nonstandard form (goods rather than logs)?  Not cheating.  Using DFTweak to designate a lazy dwarf for butchering?  Probably cheating (though arguably not since it's trivially easy to lock the offender in a room to die).  Using TileEdit to give yourself magma on a map with no vents?  Defintely cheating.  Raising twenty pages of dead elves as zombies?  Depends on your definition of cheating (it will, after all, make things rather difficult for you ).