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[Dwarfu]

I'm not discussing this in the bug forum just yet, as it may be related to Req418.

The following metal bar transmutations do not create added wealth (ignore ore value and use of charcoal - assume magma furnace; number in parenthesis is qty received from recipe; ignore bar weight; didn't review steel bars):

BAR	COST	BASE VALUE	EXT VALUE
billon (2)	60	30	60
sterling silver (4)	160	40	160
black bronze (4)	220	55	220
electrum (2)	200	100	200
rose gold (4)	460	115	460

These transmutations do add wealth:

BAR	COST	BASE VALUE	EXT VALUE
lay pewter (4)	40	15	60
nickel silver (4)	40	15	60
trifle pewter (3)	30	20	60
bronze (2)	20	25	50
fine pewter (4)	40	25	100
bismuth bronze (4)	40	30	120
brass (2)	20	35	70

All currently produce the same number of bars as is consumed.
Which should it be, added wealth or no?  Other factors involved?  Discuss.  (Including checking the math).

[G-Flex]

Note that the ones without added value don't have any added utility. You're often just cutting precious metals with slightly less precious metals. People might prefer them more, but there's no real reason for them to be worth more than the inputs.

Most of the ones with added value *do* have added utility, or are at least alloys deemed pretty or valuable when their components really aren't.

[BurnedToast]

I can excuse rose gold and black bronze, because they produce uniquely colored metals (bright and dark purple) which makes them possibly more valuable to the player, even if they are not worth more monies. The others... not so much. Electrum has been a problem since the 2d version (but at least you could make a new coin type with it then) and billion/sterling silver just seem kind of pointless.

[Moron]

Isn't the point of these metals just to have more annoying things for nobles to demand?

[Boatmurderer]

Billon is the best thing to make out of Tetrahedrite ore. I usually start a fort with a lot of tetrahedrite ore, smelt a couple bars for copper picks and an axe, and make billon bars with the rest. 1 stone of 9* ore turned into 6 60* goblets? nice profit to me...

As far as making billon out of silver and copper bars? No deal. I need that stuff.

[Lalandrathon]

I also used electrum made from gold and tetrahedrite to extend my gold supply into an electrum tower. Twelve z levels high, rising above the frozen glacier. It was my favorite fort so far, I think.

[Alfador]

A lot of the utility of alloys is that you are making multiple bars out of a single smelting. Making them from bars of the base metals is incredibly wasteful if this is what you are going for; with the added value smeltings, you might want to also consider the value of the time and fuel you used in making the ingredient bars.

[Mephansteras]

Part of the issue of a lot of the alloys is that the number of inputs is off.

Bronze, for example, is only 10% tin. So the inputs should really be 9 copper bars and 1 tin bar for 10 bronze bars. I'm not sure about the others off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure very few alloys are ever 50/50. Realistic percentages would probably really change the value added for a lot of them. Of course, in reality you can have a lot of variance in the percentages as well, but I don't think we need to go that far.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Yes, traditionally gold coins were not all gold, because the metal is too soft for daily use, so an alloy was used that was stronger than gold alone. The currencies of various countries were worth only how much gold was in them. These days unless you go out of your way - and I mean really out of your way - you won't find pure gold jewelry.

[Brdn666]

If you want, you could change the bronze making requirements to input 9 copper + 1 tin bar and output 10 bronze bars. The problem I see is you needing 9 coppers bars per reaction..

[Royal Surveyor]

I'm really surprised that we don't see billon used as coins, since that was a common coinage material in many nations for a very long time.

Indeed, there are few 50/50 mixtures in alloys, electrum being one of the best examples of one that is.

To be realistic, one could have electrum deposits, and all sorts of mixed deposits (copper and tin come to mind).  That would, however, add a phenomenal amount of complexity to world gen and interface.  But, that sort of gambling is what made metal smelting fun in ancient times.