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[Dehydration]

quote:
Also, it is true that the channel will take in an arbitrarily large amount of water. When I was done with my most recent fort of 54 dwarves, a very sizable fort stretching far beyond the far side of the underground river, I jammed both of my safety doors open and removed the rest from my fort.

Not only did every single room flood, but so did the entirety of the wilderness. Every living thing that was not on the very tip of the map drowned.

That right there is an impressive accomplishment. The rest of us have just been killing dwarves, but you've accomplished a full-fledged Mutually Assured Destruction scenario. I salute you.

[Oboro]

quote:Originally posted by Dehydration:
<STRONG>

That right there is an impressive accomplishment. The rest of us have just been killing dwarves, but you've accomplished a full-fledged Mutually Assured Destruction scenario. I salute you.</STRONG>

I actually implement a MAD plan into all of my forts, be it through unhibited panic flooding or levers hooked up to my supports if I used a very large number of extravagant chambers.

I figure it's the only way to be safe.

What was really interesting though was when my Sheriff went berserk, slaughtering seven dwarves before he was finally stopped because of his superior martial skills. How was he stopped? I had accidentally oriented my ballista backwards, and by chance it lined up perfectly with the single-tile entrance to the main hall, with my meeting room, where the well was, where the Sheriff was doing his slaughtering.

He was gibbed so badly that we managed to recover a head, a arm, and a hand in addition to the corpse.

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by frumiousj:
<STRONG>Because they're dwarves, not humans. Call me crazy, but I want to see the dwarves able to completely ignore the world above if they want (make buckets and beds craftable from stone, for instance).</STRONG>

You can get wood from mushrooms that grow naturally in flooded underground areas, although you need a fairly large area to get any decent number.  It also takes three years just to set it up.  If you make a huge flood plain, though, and don't farm there, evnetually the mushrooms will grow.

Once you're getting wood from that, and have built an indoor trade depot, you don't really have any reason to go above ground again.

[Maurog]

quote:What was really interesting though was when my Sheriff went berserk, slaughtering seven dwarves before he was finally stopped because of his superior martial skills. How was he stopped? I had accidentally oriented my ballista backwards, and by chance it lined up perfectly with the single-tile entrance to the main hall, with my meeting room, where the well was, where the Sheriff was doing his slaughtering.

Wow, this sounds like a scene from either a very bad or a very good movie!

[ August 16, 2006: Message edited by: Maurog ]

[Aquillion]

So, in other words...

You shot the Sheriff?

[Tinkzorg]

To my knowledge, it can be done with only one floodgate, and it has worked both times I tried it.

I prefer initially starting out by tapping the outside river, as it means I can start farming *much* faster. With the first winter being very hard on your food supply, this usually beats tunnelling far into the mountain.

[Toady One]

Ouch.  So...  it's the balance with the threat from cave river life that initially bugs me about outdoor farming, but I like to allow things to happen, and an outdoor river flowing down into deep mountain halls is kinda cool.  I could start messing with the inside.  It's quite uniform now, but what if you didn't know what to expect?  Instead of a cave river, you could find something else, even very close to the cliff face.  Then outdoor farming would be the only way to set up a farm, and you'd still get hit up with threats while mining (like...  random pockets of rock ooze or something).

Also, a dwarf that doesn't dig deep is a coward and a bad role model and won't be as wealthy.

[ August 16, 2006: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[JT]

"Surface dweller!  Sky lover!"

Kids can be so cruel.

[Dehydration]

quote:
Also, a dwarf that doesn't dig deep is a coward and a bad role model and won't be as wealthy.

I'm already noticing that, since I've expanded about three screens up and three screens down from my initial insertion point and I've found precisely zero ore of any kind. It makes those frogmen encounters pretty tricky.

edit: 3 up, 3 down, and over to the river I should say.

[ August 16, 2006: Message edited by: Dehydration ]

[Janne Joensuu]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>Ouch.  So...  it's the balance with the threat from cave river life that initially bugs me about outdoor farming, but I like to allow things to happen, and an outdoor river flowing down into deep mountain halls is kinda cool.  I could start messing with the inside.  It's quite uniform now, but what if you didn't know what to expect?  Instead of a cave river, you could find something else, even very close to the cliff face.  Then outdoor farming would be the only way to set up a farm, and you'd still get hit up with threats while mining (like...  random pockets of rock ooze or something).

Also, a dwarf that doesn't dig deep is a coward and a bad role model and won't be as wealthy.

[ August 16, 2006: Message edited by: Toady One ]</STRONG>

I'd like the cave rivers to be more random. Some kind of a river, a pond, a lake or a spring should always be present, but one of those above-ground, and possibility of more water sources in the mountain (including the river)... That'd be plenty. And there has to be enough water underground, because farming and fishing are the only ways to get food inside the mountain, and farming is the only way to feed a large fortress.

dwarves CAN live above ground, but there should be enough in-game reasons for the player to not want that. That is, even if the dwarves they could farm above ground and build their homes there, going underground should be safer, maker them happier, and make most things easier. Food and other items would be safer. Metal and metalcraft, for one, different kinds of stone, the capability to engrave any floor, wall or lone pillar...

Starting aboveground is almost easier than going straight inside. It'd be nice to start (or have a chance of starting) near a natural cave, which would have few rocks in it, and inside which you could immediately start building your masons etc. If natural caves also randomly appeared inside the mountain, one could e.g. find a natural cave forests from a cave next to a cave river (or other flooding water source), or a small cave infested with creatures, or a cave filled with poisonous vapours (or just miasma), etc.

[Tinkzorg]

Oh, digging deep is fun fun fun. Digging deep on an empty stomach isn't, though, which is why I prefer outside river farming.  

[Zereth]

quote:Originally posted by Tinkzorg:
<STRONG>Oh, digging deep is fun fun fun. Digging deep on an empty stomach isn't, though, which is why I prefer outside river farming.   </STRONG>

My opinion as well. As for the logic of the river not flowing uphill, all my outside rivers have run roughly paralell to the cliff. If the cliff was "uphill", then the rivers would run down away from it, presumeably starting somewhere up at the top of the mountain.

[Toady One]

Yeah, I think I've decided to allow the outdoor river to be used, remove the strange flow restriction on the channel, add much more variability to the inside, and well, to allow gobs/kobs to occasionally attempt to poison your foolish-ass outside channel if they can get there undetected, since you've allowed another access way to your fortress.  Not that this is implemented yet.  And I might not tell you when I do.

[Demon]

For a long time there was a drowning bug so Toad turned off drowning completely.  Later, I lost someone because I assumed he'd be perfectly safe setting up some very strange channel stuff.  Toad laughed and told me he fixed drowning and put it back in without telling me.  That's beyond quality!

[Garthor]

You know what'd be fun?  Opening the floodgate to your field and having an alligator come out.