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[teloft]

I am a new player of Dwarf Fortress, when in Fortress mode, I find the options to be endless, well, a bit to messy.

1. Knowlege, to the feel of the game, I think of it to be a bit silly that all dwarfes know how to do all things, even if thay are no good at it. I think it could be a good theme for limiting options, for example if I have no dwarfs living that know how to forge metal, then the option of using or building the metal forge would be invisibly and off. How the knowlege of metal forging is intruduced to the fortress can vary. (some nobles could hold some realy forbidden knowlege)

I have also some ideas on how my experience could be better.

2. Building menu, when constructing buildings, for exmple the still, I would like to be told that it would be a good idea to have barrels for beer and bags for seeds neer by for the production. and it could be a good to have raw material for the still to prosess awailable neerby. I would be extreamly happy to have menues within the still to make the places where the beer is keept, or where barrels for the production are stored. (ofcours thees places would be preprogramed to only acsept what is needed for the process). [Edit: this could be fixed as part of Core36, BURROWS]

3. Center of activity a radius of work order,  when I tell my woodcuter to chop down tres, then he will begin in the top left corner, I dont like that, I would like to add a new controle, "center of activity",  I can place his center of activity just like when I center the station for my millitary dwarfs with the "s" command. It would also be wonderfull if he could cut down the tree that would be closest to my woodcuter and the center combined, cut tree that is < the dist to tree from woodcuter + the dist to tree from center of activity. (or something like it)

4. Expanding map, the playable map expands as game developes. I like to limit the options in a new game, and expand as the game progresses. to have the playable map expanding, in z levels downward, and in the xy directions as the buildup continues would be cool.  Limiting the buildup in the begining and adding new terrain as the game evolves. The expading can be handled like knowlege see "1." where the fortress would need more organizational knowlege in order to organize a fortress larger then "minimum", organizing nobles could be the holder of such knowlege.  If we add the Center of activity see "3." to this idea, the office of the organizing noble could be his center of activity entabeling the area around his office for work orders and fortress building. Installing a overseer noble office by the borders could then expand the playable area. It would also be cool if the dwarfs would have to visit his office in order to get there work orders.

this last idea I am posting is not about limiting options like the others, it is a learning AI idea

5. the fortress Design made my the player, rooms created and dwarfes using the rooms. I think it could be realy intresting if the drawes could remember some designs that thay liked, and re-make them by them selfes in the same fasion as when artifatsa are made, only making them a bitt better, chansing one or 2 things. or using a better quality furniture or items.  For example a dwarf is has used a dining room, he can go in a strage mood and dig out / construct, detail and furnis a similar dining room, requesting the help of several other dwarfes, that he drafts in his oppertaion as an strage mood organizer/arcitekt.  It could also alow dwarfes from older fortresses that migrate to the current one to re-create some old rooms that thay liked in the old fortress. Sounds good? ..  [edit: It sounds like somting that is happeining with the HUMANOID ARC: Make non-player dwarf fortresses look more like player made fortresses"]


pleas let me know if I am mentioning somethign that is already in the threads, and if you would be kind, link thees treads to this one so I can see them.

 

[Draco18s]

1: you have to understand that you too can build a bed knowing only what a bed looks like.  The problem with DF is that a generic bed is what we think of when you buy a bed at the store, when in reality, that's a +bed+

2: I don't know what you mean

3: would be nice

4: been suggested, look for "dynamic fortress"

5: People don't like the idea of dwarves doing mining on their own.

[Idiom]

1: AKA: Dwarves aren't born knowing how to forge a set of armor. A civilization with no ore will never develop metallurgy, and so if they send an expedition out, that expedition won't know what to even do with the ore. Perhaps they have no/little wood, and so they never made wooden weapons. Elves or some other person with woodworking knowledge would have to introduce the idea, and possibly train them.

[Qmarx]

1: AKA: Dwarves aren't born knowing how to forge a set of armor.

It doesn't take skill or experience to make something recognizable as armor.  Just force some metal into a shape with a person-shaped hole.  That's armor with no quality modifiers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ned_kelly_armour_library.JPG

[shadow_archmagi]

1: AKA: Dwarves aren't born knowing how to forge a set of armor.

How would YOU know?

[Omega2]

1: AKA: Dwarves aren't born knowing how to forge a set of armor.

It doesn't take skill or experience to make something recognizable as armor.  Just force some metal into a shape with a person-shaped hole.  That's armor with no quality modifiers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ned_kelly_armour_library.JPG

Very true.

This is something we should consider: most neat, shiny objects we picture in our imagination when thinking about medieval equipment are at least "well-crafted" in Dwarf Fortress. Normal, non-modifier items are crudely done and are there just to do the job. While a +Plate Mail Armor+ looks just like we're used to see described in fantasy stories, a normal Plate Mail Armor is probably just a bunch of dented and bent metal sheets that cover part of the body but not much else. Likewise, a *Steel Battle Axe* is a beautiful, smooth blade with a deadly edge and engraved shaft, while a Steel Battle Axe is probably just a steel head badly tied to a rough wooden handle with strings the wannabe-weaponsmith probably got from his disintegrating sock. 

Just a matter of perspective. I'd moan if we were talking about skill-less dwarves creating really complex equipment such as engines, but pretty much everything in Dwarf Fortress is very simple in its basic concept.

[Joseph Miles]

Just a matter of perspective. I'd moan if we were talking about skill-less dwarves creating really complex equipment such as engines, but pretty much everything in Dwarf Fortress is very simple in its basic concept.

Does that include siege engines too?

[Wooty]

^A ballista is a big crossbow. A catapult can be made with a rubber band and a few sticks. Basic seige engines are very possible with no skill, to be realistic there might be a high chance of failure and a very long build time for an unskilled dwarf.

It would be better to make the dabbling skill level a little and hard to raise, rather than completely turning it off. If you were given a knife and peice of wood, you wouldn't be able to make anything on your first try, but if you practiced for years you would be able to make a +wood thingy+ easily. Even stuff like metalsmithing -if you devoted your entire life to trying to figure out how to forge items you would eventually get it.

What would be better is for unskilled workers to follow skilled workers around to learn it, but if there was nobody who knew how to do something your dwarves would have to slowly and painstakingly keep trying and trying and slowly learn it themselves.


But if this is ever implemented, we had better get useful dwarves in migration waves.

[Omega2]

I actually meant ICEs (Internal Combusion Engine, too much Battletech lately)...

But yeah.

I think a reasonable solution would be to make it so "dabbling" dwarves can fail and waste material, while still gaining XP from each attempt. So instead of an unskilled weaponsmith creating dozens of non-modified iron swords while working towards "novice", you'd have the same weaponsmith producing only one or two successful swords before getting the hang of things.

Not much difference for Masons or Stonecrafters, but you would probably want to keep real 'smiths and Woodcrafters and Gemcutters around. 

[Jamuk]

Yeah, I agree with having wasted material or flawed items at low level, but not knowing at all would be silly.
I have never used a forge or even seen one but I doubt I would be completely clueless on how to make a weapon.  Sure it might take awhile, but it would get done.  A lot of this stuff consists of things that anybody who sits and thinks for a second could figure out.

[Skizelo]

I remember reading in the bloats or something that they'll be a "shoddy" class of items, made by dabbling dwarves, which would normally just have a negative quality modifier, but make things like crossbows and mechanisms more interesting.
and
2) D.F. is a difficult game at the moment, and you will have to manage barrels and drink production yourself. If Toady put in a load of hand-holding options it would get really irritating beyond a brief tutorial. And it doesn't make sense for barrels to be made in a still.
3) I'm fond of micromanagement, so I wouldn't really gain from this and therefore have nothing to say.
4)Broadening a fortresses' territory wouldn't be a reward for the people who can only play on titchy maps. Also, I like the current mechanic where you can build a sky-scraper in your first year, but you're dwarves will starve and die. What you're suggesting just seems too artificial.
5) Is tricky to implement and ignores that dwarfs have been building fortresses for a thousand years before you get to play. Toady does need to smarten up A.I. built fortresses, but I think making the game learn from you is the long way around.

[Neonivek]

1) While I could enjoy the idea of secret techniques that Dwarves hoard to themselves and don't tell anyone... Like a skill that always makes Iron objects one level of quality higher... or one that gives Gold the strength and quality of steel. The idea that I can't make my Cheese Maker into a Blacksmith (which is already rediculously difficult to do as it is) without going through a ton of pain is a step back.

2) What?

3) Generally speaking I feel that this is overall unneeded... if you want them to start at the lower left then don't select the whole forest to be chopped down.

4) The only limit should be if you can handle the labor requirements... If materials ever come into play... then that too should play a part

5) The common problem with this is that once again it could very well ruin your fortress layout. You did however suggest an interesting way to handle dwarven homes which is to copy player built rooms.

[The Minister]

I do like the idea of certain technologies being restricted.  It would add a huge element to trading and would set the stage for forbidden, rare and esoteric technologies.  On the other hand, the statements about quality are absolutely correct.  Maybe the technologies themselves shouldn't be restricted, but there should be a restriction on the quality of items produced.  This level could be raised by either by enlisting specialists to teach new improved techniques, or by dwarves discovering new methods.

Here is an example of how this could be implemented.  In a given fortress, the knowledge of bed making is rather crude, so no bed in the fortress can be crafted above quality -bed-.  Some dwarf gets a strange mood and crafts a strange new bed which can act as a template for new bed creation, so the dwarves can now craft +bed+s.  Later, a dwarf gets a roll that would create  masterpiece bed which represents discovery of a new method enabling production of *bed*s.  Then, a specialist from another site comes, imparting further knowledge to enable the creation of beds of even higher quality.

In this way specialists could trade technologies with other sites.  This also sets the stage for possible hidden (or forbidden) technologies.  Perhaps employing forbidden technologies (brewing blood beer) could even affect politics between sites.  Your practice of the forbidden blood bear brewing technique angers an elven civilization that now wants to go to war with you, but goblins are going to start sending caravans as they are crazy for the stuff.

[vanarbulax]

With 1 I think would be interesting concept if the stuff a civ could create was created during world gen. You'd start off with the basic knowledge a civilization would require to survive and then you can have inventions and breakthroughs randomly throughout the 1500 years of world gen. It would also be cool if the technologies would be skewed towards a civilizations particular affinity and the circumstances around them. Dwarves would more likely to be good at mining and smelting and elves are more likely to be good at carpentry, growing and animal taming. But if elves were driven to war and put in harsh environments they should be more likely to look for forging techniques for weapons while if dwarves started in lush, animal filled wilderness they would be more likely to learn how to tame creatures. A combination of both would allow for a distinct differences between civilizations while also letting the civilization adapt to their surroundings. It would also mean that the civilization you start off with would have similiar but unique technologies available to them meaning you have to work with what you have instead of setting a routine way of doing things (like building the best wood weapons you can if you haven't learned forging or relying on aboveground crops if you haven't learned how to grow crops underground),   

[teloft]

There are many good posts here.

firstly I will try to clarify what I was trying to say about (2. "Building" menu) I press "q" and move to the still, there I can press "a" for Add new task, "P" for Workshop Profile and so on, here I would like to add a new command witch would open up the Stockpiles options with pre-edited stockpiles that would be of difrent types in acordance to what the still needs and what the still produces. That way I can still micromanage everything, but I do not have to mess with the settings every time I build stockpiles for a new Still.

I have now sleept on what I wrote and read your posts.
My thougths now all go to the future BURROWS development, I think the issues 3 and 4 are resolved with the burrows.

Core36, BURROWS, (Future): You should be able to associate buildings and dwarves to areas called burrows. A dwarf would only work on jobs at its burrow, and could not haul between burrows unless specifically designated to do so. Miners, outside workers, engravers and so on would be exempt while doing those jobs. Burrows could have general goals for the amount of objects, such as bins, that they need to have, and you could order transfers between burrows with the manager. Manager work orders could specify burrows. Once your fortress is large, having such a system to reduce the amount of hauling is very important. Coupled with some of the other ideas, large fortresses should become easier to manage.

The fortress could begin with one Burrow, then as the fortress developes, more Burrows can be added. Each burrow could have a center of activity "s" like the Squads "x", it could even be put to gether, that in one burrow is one squad. If the Dwarfs have some talent for war, I supose thay would like to organize there worklife similary to there warlife. fulfilling my "3. Center of activity" an office and  for each Burrow/Squad would probebly be beneficial to the workings of the burrow. I imagen the dwarfs dot liking the idea to be away from there Burrow center without company in a prepeard jurney, for noone knows what dangers one can find away from the burrow. The expanding map issue, we have a preset zise of a map, then we find a location on it to build the fortress, plasing a center point of activity for a Burrow could open up the possibility to do other things such as plasing a workshop or designating a Mine or channel, this would be done from the Burrow, activating the burrow, then issuing the work orders. the work orders would belong to the burrow and be managed from the burrow. the area around the burrow belongs to the burrow and if I would like to do something outside the burrow I would need to make an outpost expanding an old burrow or to make a new burrow. efectively expanding the work area for the dwarfs. Ofcours I would like also to be able to build a huge tower or dig a small tunnel to probe, but I happely do it with penalty for not begin within the dwarfs burrow and confort zone. But ofcours there are many ways to do this.