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[Tahin]

I like this idea, as long as it was still possible to build stone fall traps with just rock. However, stone fall traps really need to be nerfed. The reliance on just placing traps makes the game a lot less fun. I don't use traps, for that reason, but if it was more difficult to get an effective trap system in place, I might.

[Neonivek]

Stonefall traps are in general much weaker then properly constructed weapon traps... So they don't need to be Nerfed... or at least they need to be nerfed with all other forms of traps.

[Skizelo]

Weapon Traps arn't complex...

Yep. Nothing complex about ten different metal discs whizzing out of the floor, slashing the air three times and then disappearing back into the ground with a click.
My dad built one of those in his shed.

I like the distinction between fine and blunt mechanisms, but remote floodgate operation is quite fine, yet vital early in the game, so more discussion is needed.

[mutant mell]

Weapon Traps arn't complex...

Yeah, but I figure they need to be pretty precise, to hold weapons up, and to be able to reset.

Actually, for weapon traps in general, once activated, they really should need to be reset manually.  Somebody has got to put the weapon back in its recess.

I like the distinction between fine and blunt mechanisms, but remote floodgate operation is quite fine, yet vital early in the game, so more discussion is needed.

Levers are just things you pull, and attach to something, so they could just be simple mechanisms, and floodgates could just be hooked up with simple mechanisms for now, I guess.

[Jamuk]

I think it should be that stone mechanisms won't be very reliable.  Stone will crumble a lot faster than a metal mechanism will.  So, make rock mechanisms break over time through wear and tear, and break faster in machines with constantly moving parts or gears.

[mutant mell]

How about this:

Build Simple Rock Mechanism (1 rock)
Build Simple Metal Mechanism (3 metal)
Build Complex Metal Mechanism (1 metal)

Simple mechanisms are used for things like pressure plates and other big things.  Generally, rock will suffice, but in metal lasts longer (to be implemented later)

Complex mechanisms are smaller, but can only be made out of metal.  They are used for more complex things, but due to their small size, cannot be used for pressure plates and other big things.  Because they are so small and complex, poorly made ones tend to jam and break easily.  Rock is too big and heavy to be used for this.

[Jamuk]

I don't like the idea of splitting up things based on how complex they are, however, because that is based on how the machine is designed.

However, I admit I may just be afraid of having the dreaded "tech levels" in dwarf fortress.

[mutant mell]

I don't like the idea of splitting up things based on how complex they are, however, because that is based on how the machine is designed.

However, I admit I may just be afraid of having the dreaded "tech levels" in dwarf fortress.

Complex/Simple just refers to the design of the mechanism, as far as I'm concerned.  The thing is, the same kind of mechanism should not be used for a giant plate of stone, and a small series of cogs.

[Jamuk]

Yeah, but does a pressure plate would include gears and springs in my opinion, however other people might design it differently, like using a weight and pulleys to provide the upward force for the pressure plate raising back up like a seesaw.  Or it could just be suspended on one end of a lever with a weight on the other side to hold it up.  I don't think it should be limited to one or the other because everyone should be able to choose how they want to think the machine works, and anything can be made out of anything if you put your mind to it. 

[Neonivek]

Heck people made Airplanes out of paper

[mutant mell]

And I honestly don't have a good answer for that.  I will be the first to admit that my system is not the best, and it grossly oversimplifies various designs.  I proposed it mostly to try and get some ideas flowing, and because it would help temporarily fix some weird problems with mechanisms.

Ideally, I would lov it if workshops worked like this

Make (Rock/Metal) Lever
Make (Rock/Metal) Plate
Make (Rock/Metal) Mechanism (cogs, pulley-wheels, etc.)
Make Metal other Mechanism (springs and whatnot)

And so on.  From there, traps would require several things, like ropes, and other components.  Rockfall traps would be composed of a plate, rope, mechanism (pulley-wheel), and a rock.  Auto-reset plate traps would need a metal other mechanism (spring).  I just wanted to propose something simple.

[Jamuk]

Oh, I didn't mean your idea was bad, I just don't like the idea of having what is and isn't too complex to make defined for the user.  Wear and tear is something that will take place no matter what machine you make, and since we are trying to make a system that will make everything fit together, I just thought that it would be better not to classify things into different categories based on information we don't know.  I just didn't want to decide as much for the user.

It's kind of like how beds can only be made of wood right now.  I consider that silly as wood isn't any more comfortable than rock, unless the beds are supposed to be rotting away underneath them.  Making stuff too specific only causes silly stuff like that.

[Neonivek]

"I consider that silly as wood isn't any more comfortable than rock"

Wood is very comfortable... just not in its solid block form... Wooden Sponge (don't know the term for it), Sawdust, and Cork can be very comfortable. Let us not forget Weave and Wicker which are both also made of wood. (In Weave's case it can be made of wood... usually the bark of a tree).

The best you can do with just rock I guess is turn it into sand or beads and sleep on that... Even so called "Rock Beds" are really just heated slabs with blankets ontop.

[Drunken]

The main thing that attracts me to this idea (mechanisms) is that the way the OP describes it it would make for much more scope for mechanisms jamming up. We dont have to do away with stone mechanisms we just have to make them less reliable than metal ones. The idea of a sturdy floodgate with a massive reservoir and a dodgy mechanism got me excited. It is sort of like a "losing is fun" situation BUT it would be a puzzle too and maybe solveable. The dwarves know they cant get the water without removing the floodgate, they can't open it. But when they remove it there will be an uncontrollable flood. Things like this cropping up sound like fun. Also the scenario in someones donation reward I read on wiki where a dwarf had to dive into the reservoir and dislodge a dead ratman from the mechanism to fix it. This would make for some heroics fromt he engineers and also give a reason for swimming skill other than simply surviving floods

[Tylui]

Ideally, I would lov it if workshops worked like this

Make (Rock/Metal) Lever
Make (Rock/Metal) Plate
Make (Rock/Metal) Mechanism (cogs, pulley-wheels, etc.)
Make Metal other Mechanism (springs and whatnot)

And so on.  From there, traps would require several things, like ropes, and other components.  Rockfall traps would be composed of a plate, rope, mechanism (pulley-wheel), and a rock.  Auto-reset plate traps would need a metal other mechanism (spring).  I just wanted to propose something simple.

I kinda like that.

It has the DF theme all over it.  You know, with the sets of clothing requiring a ridiculous amount of making various parts, etc.