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Author Topic: New Trap/Machine  (Read 1887 times)

LumenPlacidum

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New Trap/Machine
« on: July 01, 2008, 02:19:18 pm »

I propose a new trap/machine component: the ramrod.  This would be a device requiring blocks that could be sized to be some odd number of tiles (at least 3) by 1 tile and would be oriented upon construction.  The purpose of this device would be to push whatsoever is in its way in the direction of the construction.  The device would require mechanical power to work (perhaps the more mechanical power it has, the more quickly it pushes?  These devices could be linked to levers and pressure plates, which would trigger them.  The ramrod's two states would be extended on one side or on the other.

The faculty of this device would be to allow both new trapping possibilities as well as product management, since you could push items with them.

The construction would look like this:
X is a tile that is physically blocked, preventing passage, and needs to have solid ground underneath it when the component is made.
= is where the rod actually is.
_ is an empty space (open floor, open to below, stockpile, etc.).

Size        Schematic           Instance (oriented left typically, uses key above)
3x1:        XXX                    _X=
5x1:        XXXXX                __X==
7x1:        XXXXXXX           ___X===
9x1:        XXXXXXXXX     ____X====

The '=' sections would pass through the 'X' section to push everything in the '_' sections in the direction of the orientation of the building.
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Derakon

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 02:55:34 pm »

I agree this would be handy, and falls into the general "we want mechanically-enabled buildings" suggestions that crop up from time to time.

Balance-wise, they'd need to automatically retract after firing and have some delay before they can fire again, or else they become impassable. I want to say they should also have a chance to become jammed when they encounter items on the ground, but that reduces their utility as transport enablers.
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Mechanoid

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 11:24:56 pm »

More moving parts for the dwarves to mangle themselves on.

Perfect. ;D
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Defiant Zombie

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 11:32:48 pm »

I second the motion. I was just thinking today that it would be handy to make a "moving wall". Being able to put these vertical would be cool too. Attach some spikes and bring them into a room slowly from top and bottom...or just adjust the floor up and down to squish kittens...
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Glutton

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 12:27:03 am »

Hmm... another explotable atam smashers? I dont know, I dont know...
But yes... the more machinery the dwarwes have, the better :-)

I suppose these "pushers" should be possible to build even vertically... to serve as nice elevators.

And another suggestion for machinery... if we build two levers for one device, the levers jsut copy its state to the target, right? That means, if I have two levers in OFF state, I pull the first one... it will chnge status of the second one. But if I pull the second one also to the On status... it will to nothing, right?
So can it be possible to link even levelrs between themself? So if I will have a two levers connected to the one floodgate. And I will open it wilth the first one, it will also chane status of the second lever. So pulling the second lever will close it again.
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Neonivek

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 12:31:24 am »

One way to balance it as well is to allow resistance to the trap. Treat it as if it was some sort of Odd "Ram" attack and allow enemies to dodge or withstand it.
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Granite26

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 08:12:10 am »

Or just have it do (moderate) damage to anything it pushes into a wall, rather than atom smash it.

Neonivek

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 05:06:12 pm »

Technically I don't even think Bridges or even cave-ins should be able to Atom Smash... I wonder if Toady has plans to change that in the distant future
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Skizelo

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 06:10:55 pm »

Could it be like spike traps, where corpses become part of the building, rather than squashed into oblivion.
About the original suggestion, it would be nice to see some moats put into actual use, but it spells instakill if used with magma. So it some creatures could break the machine, either based on their size or some new tag that lets them dig their heels in or something.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 06:16:02 pm by Skizelo »
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Neonivek

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2008, 06:12:53 pm »

Well a powerful creature should be able to smash right through a bridge

Also... Creatures becoming part of the bridge is one of the most greusome things I ever heard
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 06:23:27 pm by Neonivek »
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Idiom

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2008, 08:45:28 pm »

I generally build "bunkers" on my map with catapults facing all 4 directions and a large stone stockpile beneath. They cover the popular path to my entrance and obliterate rather effectively.

Now I'm picturing one large bunker 2 levels tall. Inside is a mess of gears and a lever on the ground floor, with a shaft connecting a ramrod to some mechanical power. The river has been diverted to 16 waterwheels to power these ramrods (provided more mechanical power = more "umph"). 2nd floor goes directly to a stone stockpile below. Designate a dump zone one level above the ramrod shaft. When an invasion comes, turn the ramrod on auto. "Thump-Thump-Thump-Thump-Thump-Thump-"
'Designate Dump" the stones below, and a horde of haulers starts pouring ammo down into the shaft. It would be the equivalent of an automated cannon.

Freaking awesome. You could use anything as ammo. Even corpses. You could literally blow an invasion force to pieces with the pieces of the last force.

EDIT:
Just had a second thought. If it was submerged, could you use it like an over sized mega-pump for liquids? It would flow in large pressured bursts instead of a slower flow like from the regular pumps. Would be good for knocking creatures back.

EDIT 2:
Had another thought. Trap doors. Goblins fall in. Piston pushes them back into a loading chamber. Vertical piston crams them into the firing chamber. Firing piston shoots them back out at their own guys that didn't fall in the pit and are still at the edge.

:D
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 09:01:45 pm by Idiom »
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Skizelo

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2008, 09:00:30 pm »

Also... Creatures becoming part of the bridge is one of the most greusome things I ever heard
Jeff Goldblum starrs in... "The Bridge"
Be Sickened. Be Completely Sickened.
They would get massive bludgeon damage, but they wont be atom-smashed.
And Demons do resist bridges. By breaking them.
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Idiom

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2008, 09:16:36 pm »

Quickly, Toady! Could mechanical pistons make it in before the next release? Horizontal and/or vertical pistons?
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Veroule

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2008, 05:37:36 am »

I like the concept of this idea.  I would want to use it to make a wave pool so my dwarves can learn surfing.  So there are a few refinement I would like to suggest.

1. Building has 4 attributes set at the time of construction.
1a. Size (1x1, 3x1, 4x2, etc) using the same interface as bridges.  It would use 1 block per square occupied, and affect the number of mechanism required to build it.
1b. Orientation, this controls where it retracts to, pretty much straight forward.
1c. Speed.  This would be used to determine how far it throws and object or knocks a person back.  A calculation for power requirements absolutely must take this into account.  Also this should affect the number of mechanisms required to build it, as some would be considered complex gearing.
1d. Strength.  This controls just how much it can push or lift.  If the load being moved exceeds the strength then it stops just like a floodgate does when something is in the way.  This should have an automatic minimum set based on the size of the construction, as it has to move is own weight too.

Among other thing I want all squares occupied by it to be impassable when it is extended.  I would also want it to block flows like water and magma, as that would be needed for it push water around to make my wave pool.

A note about atom smashing, if the rod extends right to a wall it should definitely crush anything between it and the wall,as long as it has sufficient strength.  I am not sure about how to figure whether it would crush a creature or dwarf, but for objects I would say it takes 50% more strength to crush objects.  Since we are using the objects weight to determine whether it can be moved it is pretty easy to decide whether it should be crushed when the wall is encountered.

Use as a lift would definitely be cool.  I can't really see it extending up more then 1 level.  When up it should make a walkable floor on the level above, and crushing would be determined by the presence of a floor above it.  Uses as a lift would require that it be considered as supporting for cave in purposes.
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Draco18s

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Re: New Trap/Machine
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 11:39:11 am »

Side note:

Speed and Power are inversely proportional.  This is why you accelerate a car while in 1st or 2nd gear, but go 50 mph in 5th.
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