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[Boomer]

Troll Stone-throwers
Instead of walking up and bashing buildings to bits, they throw rocks at them like walking catapults.

I love it. They'd be a thrower, stats adjusting their range and damage... but it'd be genius.

[Qmarx]

Although you could always surround your fortress with an underground magma layer. Then if the goblins try to tunnel through, they open up a wall and get a bunch of lava dumped on them. Water would work too but it wouldn't be as cool.

I think water is much cooler than magma.

[Dwarfaholic]

You are correct. Water is not as hot as magma- it is cooler.

[McDoomhammer]

Troll Stone-throwers
Instead of walking up and bashing buildings to bits, they throw rocks at them like walking catapults.

I love it. They'd be a thrower, stats adjusting their range and damage... but it'd be genius.

Picture this:

"Bomrek!  BOMREK!  The trolls have broken through to the stone stockpile!  OH THE DWARFITY!" *sound of 1500¬ granite block impacting *Iron helm*.  It is mangled*

[Aqizzar]

I don't know if anybody has read them (even more disturbing than existing stories) but Trolls throwing things is actually a PowerGoal-

# PowerGoal49, SCREAM BALL, (Future): Trolls take the captives and see if they can throw them all the way over the chasm to each other.
# PowerGoal50, SKULL GAMES, (Future): Trolls stack skulls to see how high the piles can get, bowl with skulls and play catch with skulls.

[Jude]

I really like the idea of goblins exploiting dwarven idiocy and tossing socks and loincloths around to draw out the civilians for their archers to mow down. If nothing had died yet, you might not realize the stuff was there  and you'd probably lose a bunch of dwarves before getting wise to what was going on.

[Baneslave]

...get a bunch of lava dumped on them. Water would work too but it wouldn't be as cool.

Ho? Wouldn't be as hot, you mean?
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Edit. Doh, ninjad.

[Chthonic]

I imagine goblins scaling a cliff wall to get down to a side door, deconstructing it, and sneaking in. Or swimming from the river through your farm aqueduct, deconstructing your floodgate, and riding the wave into the upper halls of your fortress sabotaging stuff along the way.

Elite special-ops ninja goblins

I like it.

[Jreengus]

I dont like goblins minning asd it could screw up designs, first off rather than giving goblins ways to avoid traps traps should be greatly reduced in power, mayb a 1 weapon limit per trap gobbos get a 40% chance to avoid triggering trap and traps hit 80% of the time, after one use a trap must be reset. This would have traps serve as a way to thin out the goblins slightly without being able to kill an entire seige on their own. Goblins should definetly bring along seige engines along with a catapult which fires balls which explode, these can create holes in walls/fortifications these holes allow fire through as though they were an emopty square but slightly slow gobbos/dwarves going through. and they can only destroy 1 wide walls any hole can be repaired using a stone block after which wall/firtification acts like normal (although it would need re-smoothing/engraving)
   Gobbo seiges should also be more ordered, initially they would be small groups with maybe one or two catapults a crew to build bridges over any moats and a wagon, goblins break in and kill anyone who attacks them, if they see an item worth over a certain amount they take it, if a dwarf holds it they kill the dwarf they also nick any chldren they come across, the goblins would break up slowly as they explored into smaller and smaller groups as they spread out. once they have nicked enough they kill anyone who tries to blcok their way out and head back to the wagon dump their stuff on it and the goblisn head off with their loot. If these guys came across a particularly expensve item they would fight each other over it, they wouldnt fight to the death but rather would yield after say taking a yellow wound.
Later on however the goblins would come in more force organised into squads and with a lot of seige equipment they bould batter you fort with catapults first in order to create a number of gaps in the defenses, mean while they would shower you with arrows and ballista bolts to weaken your numbers squads would then attack staying together if they come to a split in a corridor the entire squad would go the same way rather than breaking up as they would do in smaller seiges, squads would be more intent on killing than looting and possible some specially equiped squads could deliberatly take slaves Squads would eb lead by someone with a legendary skill, if they die the squad would break up reverting back to looting and breaking into smaller and smaller groups.

[wallish]

I dont like goblins minning asd it could screw up designs,

At first I thought like that, then I realized: just deal with it!  That's the incentive to build a military and break the siege.  Of course, the goblins wouldn't try to siege right away, maybe after two seasons or something.  But sieges throughout history end from one of several things: starvation of the besieged, disease of either group, or winter freezing of the siegers.

Sieges are what I'm most looking forward to from the Army Arc, as it would be the first real challenge that our dwarves would have to handle.  I mean, with sand farming is easy so food and booze supply is simple enough, you can lock up your fort and build a small moat to keep out most enemies.  Walls work nicely as well.

But with sieges, sappers especially, we would have a challenge to prepare for and overcome.  If siegers could starve to death, meaning they'd need supplies, we would have a real standoff: can you withstand the constant sapping and defend your fort from intrusion? Can the siegers keep their army alive long enough to break through?  It'd be great!

[Cthulhu]

Maybe they could dig into your farms, kill your farmers, barricade the entrance, and take them for themselves.

[Neonivek]

"I dont like goblins minning asd it could screw up designs"

As I said many times before... One idea is that Tunnels not created by you... could (and should) collapse on their own or be set to collapse by you.

Why? Because there are TOO many instances where enemies really should tunnel... such is the case against enemy Dwarves and Antmen

[Glutton]

The idea of digging (or even worst) enemies is problematic.
1) Some players are playing the "seal of the world + milions of traps" strategy. To make the game challenge for them means creating the oponets really really strong.
2) But some palyers are not using this uber strategies. But just want to "role-play" with realistic fortress, getting wood outside in the forrest, bild few traps and recruit army. For them even current sieges can be problematic and cause them losses.

So it would be very very dificult to balance the oponents strenght. One of the nice aspects of this game is that you can play as you wish (do you want fortress under water? Do you want to beat oponent with you army? Do you want to flood them? Catch them and throw into arena? Almost everything is possible). Making oponents too strong would ruin this aspect. The game would become more straightforward where jsut most defensive strategie will be coreect strategy. And that is wrong.

So suggesting what oponents should be able do is ane thing. And easy one:
They should be able to dig. To destroy contructions. Bild bridges. Poison water. Crete water pump to flood your entrance... lot of possibilities.

But there is other question... when they should use it? In my opinion the game should "track" your tactic and balance the sieges depending on it. So if our dwarwes spent lot of time outside, the oponents should never ruin your masterpiecefortress wit digging, etc...

My humble suggestions:
1) The abilities of the oponents should depend on the location - calm locations far away from goblin vilages should for example never be attacked with oponents with special skills.
2) The fortresses in more dangerous enviroments should not have them at the begginging. The special abilities of the oponents should depend on the result of the previous sieges... lets say they will learn from their mistakes or somethink like that:
- They will sent some easy oponents. If you slaughter them by your military then can sent a litlle bit stronger next time. if they all fall into your traps, they can increase in numbers and bring some dogs with them to trigger traps (they should reciee basic inteligence "if I see somebody killed by spikes.. I will not enter that place"). If you will be not abe to reach you at all for months... they will bring picks nex time and start digging. If even that fils they can bring some magicans that will be able to teleport one or two oponents nto your fortress (lets say that goblin wizards are bad wizards will low mana - because teleporting huge army into your bedroom area is not fair from the game)

In this way... you will be able to affect what will happen. So the players that do not want see somebody digging... they can avoid it - but they will need resist in some other way then just seal from the world.

And as long as you are fighting fair "face to face" the game will not put you against magic etc... these strong deaastating methods will be used only if gobbos have no other way left.

With such system the sieges will not become ridicilously dificult with just few strategies how to defend them. But it will not become too easy because the oponents will use more powerfull abilities in case you are slaughtering them too easily. (teleport in the worst cases for the complettelly unnacessible fortressess)

[Sergius]

The idea of digging (or even worst) enemies is problematic.
1) Some players are playing the "seal of the world + milions of traps" strategy. To make the game challenge for them means creating the oponets really really strong.
2) But some palyers are not using this uber strategies. But just want to "role-play" with realistic fortress, getting wood outside in the forrest, bild few traps and recruit army. For them even current sieges can be problematic and cause them losses.

So it would be very very dificult to balance the oponents strenght.

I don't see why. The players that aren't "sealing off the world" wouldn't get goblin diggers, as the goblins can perfectly fight with them outside.

The program would need to be able to decide when the player is being decididedly abusive with his chokepoints/trap systems though (like me and my defense system that always ends with siegers getting shot *in the back*)

[Duke 2.0]

 How I feel:

 Walls: All materials should have some what of identifying how "hard" it is. Granite? Hard. Talc? Really soft. Then all walls would have a specific defensive value.

 Then we can have things start effecting them. Okay, I can live with this. Walls can be beaten away. They could even have damage portrayed in text rather than a visible value(Scratched, Cracking, Furrowed, Crumbling, Breached, Rubble). I would love that. Of course, rubble would slow people down. This would make going through a thick wall made of iron ore even slower than normal.

 Digging: I'm not in love with the idea, but I do realize it would be cool to battle goblins as they breach your main hall. Making sure your main hall isn't always a battle-site whenever a groundhog comes around would suck, though.

 I don't know how cave-ins worked in the 2-D version, but I assume a solid block of earth drops down with a bunch of smoke made. Then you can mine the collapsed rock? The way I see it, when cave-ins are fixed ground can be "Created" by cave-ins. Of course, mining walls made by cave-ins only produces rubble, which cannot be made into anything except rough walls and slows down movement when stepping over it. These walls made from rubble would have a LARGE negative modifier to how much they protect. Also: Rubble can only occur as of the layer type. Found an iron vein in a limestone layer? Any cave-ins there would only produce limestone rubble.

 This way players can create natural walls without creating horrible holes in the wilderness, yet can abuse it.

 Personally, I want to see what Toady will do when he gets around to fixing support.