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[Demon]

Its just as though the quit button isnt there...

OK, I tried what you said, and that didnt work...  I made all the organs depth 9 or so too after it didnt work the first time, but that didnt help.  I'm sure every body part is proper.  The example models are grey (in race selection) but when actually playing the model is just flesh colored...

[Toady One]

So you loaded in a material file and selected steel?  Or did you make steel of your own in the material specs?  You can feel free to email me a creature if you want me to check it out.

The actual creature probably appears to have regular skin tones because the Solid Variation of the tissue is still set to 3 rather than none (you set this way at the bottom of the tissue def).

[Harlander]

I'm running XP home edition - the program doesn't lock up on attempting to quit, it just doesn't exit.

[Toady One]

All right.  It's odd that it stopped working all of a sudden.  There must be some kind of weird error somewhere else that is indirectly messing with this.  Until I find that, I'll try to compensate by telling the game to quit in as many ways as I can think of in the relevant sections of code.

This is the first version where this has happened, right?  It doesn't happen here, so it will be very hard to test.

[Harlander]

As far as I can remember, yes, this is the first version I've been unable to quit on.

[Toady One]

"Fortunately" this is also happening on Three Toe's computer, so between the two of us it should be fixable.

I'll put out a version in a week or so, assuming we figure it out.  This version will also have things like the no-titan-broad-swords fix.  Are there any other super minor requests?  I have 12 or so things I'm going to do myself, but I might find time for a few more Little alterations.

[Harlander]

Not knowing how you've done things, it's difficult to say whether a change would require small or great effort: the only one I might suggest that I'd think might be relatively easy is having the building-block index selection in the body parts menu display the name of the building block.

If you're taking suggestions for non-trivial modifications to the editor, I'd like to suggest the following, and even if you're not, I intend to suggest them anyway, so nerr:

When creating a new material, some default values for various material types, selectable from a list, could speed up the process. Also, it might be possible to algorythmically determine the values for the liquid and gaseous states once the solid has been entered, and likewise, determine the solid and gaseous states from entered liquid statistics, and so on.

The ability to rename the building blocks might be useful, as an arbitrarily large number of "custom building block"s could become somewhat difficult to manage.

If possible, some kind of checking system built into the editor to test whether a motif or whatever will function correctly would be useful. It'd only need to have simple errors: "Body part 4 (Central Eye) has no tissue type.." or whatever.

More ambitiously, perchance something akin to the 'wizards' used in some Windows applications, essentially a system of dialogs and menus that takes a user step-by-step through the processes needed to create a new motif, creature or similar thing.

Even more ambitiously and perhaps impossibly, some kind of preview integrated into the editor so you can see what a creature will look like without having to switch to the main game?

Anyway, that's enough suggesting... I'm going to try and get something out of the editor by the Pure Intiuitive method. Ciao.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Harlander ]

[Kurtulmak]

Unfortunately the Master (whine, whine, snivel) is hard at work creating even more complicated features for the makeup of the universes-  By the time He added an easier way to make materials He would have to add something like electrical conductivity to them and the editor would be outdated… The choice has been made:  The editor will get more and more complex and harder to use!  Only when it is beyond the power of even the Master to control will He make it sub-being friendly.

[Demon]

I want a copy this page command, so that when you make a new leg/ material/ motif/ whatever you can load all the values from the last page.  This would be especially easy since I want to make giant spiders and I need to add 4 leg parts almost exactily like existing legs and 2 feet exactily like the others.

[Toady One]

Currently you can only copy castes...  making more wouldn't be so bad.

I'll write down all of the things above and try to do as many as I can.  My top priority now is the annoying quit bug.  As soon as I get that, I'll put up a fix version, which will also hopefully have some editor changes.

Right now, there are 160 little improvements and 90 code optimizations to be done.  My goal for the vegetation release is to cap those numbers at 140 and 80, and so on, so that these lists will be cleared out by the time the current plan is finished.  I suppose editors will also get tossed into that mix now.

As Kurtulmak says, the editors will be hard to use for some time.  Though files will become outdated, I'm going to try my best to maintain some compatibility, so that you can at least upgrade your creations from one version to the next.

[SkeleTony]

I have the same problems Tarn.I am running win xp and an amd athlon processor.I was playing in full screen mode and when I got killed NONE of the buttons would work and I had to manually reboot my PC.

I did not hear any music...ever.

I could not figure out the editors but did not spend a lot of time with them either.How do you laod models in that thing so you can muck around and give your human females big Ti-...er, big elbows?

The good news is that I am getting 49+ frames per second now.

Feature request:Alternate fixed camera positions such as "first person" and  "slightly above and behind the head" etc..Maybe assign them keys on the Numpad or something.

[Toady One]

Do you remember if music worked in the last version?  Three Toe doesn't get music either.

Do you mean it locked up when you got back to the main menu or it wouldn't even let you get that far?

Three Toe is currently trying my first attempt at the quit fix.

Click on current filename and type in "human_rla" (followed by return) to load up the human lower arm.  Then you can change elbows all you like.  The other model files are the ".mdl" files in the stock folder.

Be warned -- the model editor sucks now.  You have to do everything very manually.  On the other hand, all of the models in the game were made with it.  I think that's just because I don't fully appreciate my free time or the value of my own life.  If enough people want it fixed, I'll have it more workable for the vegetation release.

Fixed camera angles... that's a do-able Feature Request.  I'll stick that in the bug fix version I put up in a few days.

I'm going to go write up the editor crash courses now...

[SkeleTony]

The game locks as soon as I am killed.The npc creatures continue milling about and I can play with the camera and watch them all and flip them off or drop trow and wiggle my willy at them(they don't seem to notice which leads me to the conclusion that my ex-girlfriend was a goblin), but I cannot click ANYTHING in the way of buttons and no keypresses work either.

I do not remember ever hearing music in Armok but I sometimes whistle "Speak of the Devil" or "Horror Business" while playing.

[Toady One]

Does Shift+Q work to bring up the quit dialog?  Everything else shuts down normally.  I'm not even sure if (H)elp works when you're dead.  Which would make it hard to figure out how to quit...  whoops...

[SkeleTony]

I am about 90% sure that I tried "shift+Q" and "shift + everything else" as well as "ctrl + <various>".

Somewhere(everywhere?) Armok is laughing his proverbial ass off.