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Total Members Voted: 20

[PTTG??]

Currently, all tiles are equal- they are either passable or utterly impassable. My suggestion is this:

 give each tile one more value- the obstructedness of the tile. This is a 0-7 value that slows creatures that attempt to pass that tile.
0=totally clear. 1=90% clear. 4=50% clear... and so on.

 After 4, tiles are shown with a dark gray background to indicate lots of obstructions. At 7 units, the tile is fully impassable due to items in it, for instance in a vault of gold coins or in a pile of dead goblins. Possibly, 5 or 6 units in a tile act as a ramp so one could stack crates (or gems, or skulls) to climb a wall, for instance.

 The tile occupancy test could happen very irregularly, perhaps scanning a few hundred tiles a frame to avoid too much strain.

Continuing this idea, there is a second element- uneven terrain and dense natural growth.
 In places like mountains, tiles would have a pre-set amount of obstructions that could vary- for instance, 1 or 2, to replicate rough terrain and otherwise insignificant uneven eroded areas and loose scree. Similarly, forested areas should grow "dense brush" that significantly slows units that try to pass- anywhere from 1 to 4 units of occupancy. these types of internal obstruction may or may not stack with plain items in the tile.

 The amount of slowing in a tile should be visible to creatures so that they will path around unnecessary obstructions (say, for instance, like goblins moving around existing piles of corpses.)
 One small necessary add-in: the ability to pick up items from an adjacent tile to enable better clean-up of debris.

Much Later Edit: While I acknowledge that this would most likely slow the game down, possibly by several FPS or more on large maps, I feel that the gain would be worth it- particularly in Adv. Mode, where this would make traveling and fighting in forests interesting and give roads a definite purpose.

[Derakon]

Interesting, and it gives more of an incentive to build roads outside - so your dwarves can get around faster. This would also give a reasonable way to represent clutteredness of stockpiles.

However, we would need to know how bulky every item in the game is, to determine how much of an obstruction it poses. It'd be fine if 10 goblin corpses are enough of a pile to get over your walls, but 10 roach corpses shouldn't be.

[PTTG??]

Though it isn't truly accurate, I would suggest using weight as the value. In general, heavier items are more difficult to pass, even if they are smaller- in a narrow corridor, it takes more time to pass an anvil than it would to pass an equal-volume pile of feathers.

[Footkerchief]

Though it isn't truly accurate, I would suggest using weight as the value. In general, heavier items are more difficult to pass, even if they are smaller- in a narrow corridor, it takes more time to pass an anvil than it would to pass an equal-volume pile of feathers.

You said weight but then equal-volume.  I'm pretty sure that an amount of feathers equal in WEIGHT to an anvil would fill a room.

[PTTG??]

Though it isn't truly accurate, I would suggest using weight as the value. In general, heavier items are more difficult to pass, even if they are smaller- in a narrow corridor, it takes more time to pass an anvil than it would to pass an equal-volume pile of feathers.

You said weight but then equal-volume.  I'm pretty sure that an amount of feathers equal in WEIGHT to an anvil would fill a room.

Correct. So, a 5 cubic foot block of feathers is less of an obstacle than a 5 cubic foot block of iron, despite the fact that they are the same size.

[Valandor]

This could be really annoying for building workshops though since when i mine out 9 squares for it and I build in it all the rocks are put in the entrance to the workplace making it most likely impossible in this system you're suggesting (it is strange that this is the only way to get multiple rocks in one square though)

[Andir]

You don't need an obstructive test.  Just update the tile when an item is placed there and check it when the dwarf moves in his regular routine.  All un-mined areas would start at 7, all plains 0-1 depending on if they contain a plant, tree stump or whatever.  All tiles would take a set number of cycles to pass (lets say 7 for simplicity) and modifiers to the tile would change how fast an actor shall pass.

I have to say though, it really falls into the "generic" category.  There are so many things in this game that have similar, but different enough functions that point me to believe that the game is written rather "overly complex" rather than inherited objects, "generic programming" and some of the other techniques to reduce complexity.  Each tile would inherit a container class.  Water, stone, sand, inventory, etc. would all inherit a container class that handles "fullness."  This class would modify movement values, capacity, etc.  A stone wall would have a movement penalty of 7 (which is the highest, thus impassable) and inversely a capacity of 0.  Each tile would also have a skill modifier class inherited as well.  Swimming skill modifiers, mining skill modifiers and all kinds of other fun stuff.  Even things like pumps, slides, traps and other miscellany could be tile automated.  (if (on) this tile reaches into this tile for object typeof water.  It deducts 1 unit and places it in this tile over here.)

One day I'll actually sit down and commit this all to a C++ library and keep it to myself.

[Andir]

Interesting, and it gives more of an incentive to build roads outside - so your dwarves can get around faster. This would also give a reasonable way to represent clutteredness of stockpiles.

However, we would need to know how bulky every item in the game is, to determine how much of an obstruction it poses. It'd be fine if 10 goblin corpses are enough of a pile to get over your walls, but 10 roach corpses shouldn't be.

Or how many cats fit in a cage?
http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2008-04-21
http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2008-05-12

[Draco18s]

Last time something of this nature was suggested I suggested using the [SIZE] tag, and then adding a new tag, [SPACE] that indicated the largest SIZE item that could fit into that object (such as stuffing socks into a chest).

[Andir]

[SIZE], [WEIGHT]... and maybe [VISCOSITY] if any kind of fluid/pseudo-fluid dynamics were planned.

[Techhead]

Material size, perhaps?

[Footkerchief]

Though it isn't truly accurate, I would suggest using weight as the value. In general, heavier items are more difficult to pass, even if they are smaller- in a narrow corridor, it takes more time to pass an anvil than it would to pass an equal-volume pile of feathers.

You said weight but then equal-volume.  I'm pretty sure that an amount of feathers equal in WEIGHT to an anvil would fill a room.

Correct. So, a 5 cubic foot block of feathers is less of an obstacle than a 5 cubic foot block of iron, despite the fact that they are the same size.

"Correct"?  Which is it, weight or volume?  Do you mean density?

[Cosmonot]

I would much rather accept the slight absurdity of the current setup rather than this system. It doesn't add anything to the game except processor work.

[Warlord of Woe]

This, of course, could lead to some obvious problems. For those of us whom have 1-tile-thick halls or very small rooms and a lot of dwarves, you could be faced with dwarven door jams; causing confusion as multiple dwarves can't reach their destinations, only to cancel the job and find out that they now can reach their destinations, trying again only to find themselves stuck again.

Worst case scenario, of course. Door jams at any rate would be bad.

[korora]

This, of course, could lead to some obvious problems. For those of us whom have 1-tile-thick halls or very small rooms and a lot of dwarves, you could be faced with dwarven door jams; causing confusion as multiple dwarves can't reach their destinations, only to cancel the job and find out that they now can reach their destinations, trying again only to find themselves stuck again.

Worst case scenario, of course. Door jams at any rate would be bad.

This is an argument I see a lot and doesn't really make sense ("your suggestion makes things hard if I build things like this").  If it causes jams, don't build one-tile-wide hallways.  Suggestions that change how fortresses are designed shouldn't be criticized for it unless you demonstrate that, in this case, building halls two or three tiles wide is unconscionable.

Also, given your signature I only find it fair to point out that your semicolon should be a comma.