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[Kagus]

Alright lads, I've got an idea for a mod, but I'm going to need some help getting it set up (mainly, I'm going to need people nagging me to work on it).

I'm pretty new to this, so I'll be asking a lot of questions about various tags and such.  Also, I'll be asking for creature ideas and name suggestions.

Here's the overview:

There will be extensive work done with the civilizations in the game.  First off I'll just be swapping out one entity for another, but I'll want to add more in later.  Eventually, I want a setting with numerous races of a particular class, so that depending on where you settle, you may have contact with some and not others.  Adds a little variety.

First in line for new races:  
Lizardmen. These will be the fort mode civ, at least early on.

Frostlings. These will replace dwarves for now.  Lives in towns on tundra, glacier, and taiga biomes.  Resistant to cold.  Bonus points if you know where I'm stealing these guys from.

Stygians.  These may become a fortable race later on, if it's possible to have more than one without complications.  They are, essentially, undead.  Massive constructions have never been so easy, but you can forget about having them heal a broken limb.  I suppose that's easier, since they'll just pick up and move on instead of sitting in a bed for the rest of their lives.  I'm not sure what complications may arise from having a creature with both the [INTELLIGENT] and [NO_THOUGHT] tags.

New creatures will have to be added as well.  Tameable frost wolves for Frostlings, Giant Turtles for Lizardmen, and perhaps bone hounds for Stygians, unless I can think of some other suitable evil critter.

These are just some of the ideas in this mod.  I'm open to suggestions, but that doesn't mean I'll take all of them.   Or any of them, for that matter.

I'll give thanks and credits to the people who help me out in this process.  If anyone wants to help with the actual modding, I can use all the help I can get.

Toodles,
--Kagus.

[Deon]

Nice, but actually it could be even more cool and somewhay neat to have race settings from some another world, like Forgotten realms or another one... Actually if you try to include more region-suited animals/monsters, that'd be cool. And make GCS [semimegabeast] please -).
Also it'd be great to add raiders/bandits, because without them now there's no more too loot except cities.

[Kagus]

I wouldn't make anything without adding the [SEMIMEGABEAST] tag to giant cave spiders.  And, I'd remove the [EXTRACT_PERMANENT] tag from mini cave spiders, so you no longer have to fear them.  It's bad enough with the big ones.

And, essentially, I am taking race ideas from another game.  Both the lizardmen (that I'm making) and the Frostlings are taken from one specific game, and I may add in other rces from that game as well.  However, regardless of what goes in, it has to fit in with the unmoveable constants in DF.

That, and I feel completely free to make whatever adjustments to anything that I want.  It is good to be the king.

[Torak]

quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>Frostlings. These will replace dwarves for now.  Lives in towns on tundra, glacier, and taiga biomes.  Resistant to cold.  Bonus points if you know where I'm stealing these guys from.</STRONG>

I've always thought of Frostlings as being more Goblin-Like than Dwarf-Like.

Also I dont remember, but it's either Age of Wonders or Battlecry.

[Kagus]

Age of Wonders.  And yes, they're closer to goblins than dwarves.  However, the current dwarves aren't the final product I'm looking for, so I'm using their entity slot for frostlings.  At least for now.

[Greiger]

May need some custom plants if the Frostlings are expected to be able to use outdoor farms.  I think the outside vanillas are all BIOME_NOT_FREEZING.  Cave plants should still work though.

For a small time I was working on a mod based on Phantasy Star Universe but I ended up never finishing.  Hope yers does better than mine.

[Kagus]

Been doing a bit of entity and creature work.  Lizardmen are (relatively) stable for now, but they're not fleshed out.  I really wish there was some way to get rid of that "Forest Retreat" label, but tough luck.

I've been focusing on Stygians.  Had a hell of a time getting the entity to work long enough for the world to generate, and then I had some problems because I thought the [INTELLIGENT] and [NOTHOUGHT] tags were conflicting.  This made stygian fortresses very interesting, since nobody had brains with which to think.

It was a veritable pushfest.  I also found a temple that had gone buggy and stationed itself in the wall of one of the dark fort towers, so it was reduced to a sliver of worship.

Anyways, once I got the [NOTHOUGHT] tag taken care of, I wanted to mess around with slave goblins (mostly just for experimentation, but it could potentially be used for a new orc race or something), but couldn't get them to haul stuff.  I'm not sure how you get them to do that, but I'm going to search the forums for more info.  I think the ends justify the labor involved.

By the way, for those who are interested; ten hunting goblins with biting switched to a main attack can take down a deer inside of a few seconds.  Really fun to watch, too.

I'm a little confused as to where to start with frostlings...  I don't want them to settle in lands of temperate or higher warmth, but I haven't a clue about most of the temperature tags.  In fact, I don't know anything about any of them aside from [FIXED_TEMP:].  And yes, a freezing climate crop would be nice to have.  Thanks Greiger, I hadn't thought of that.  I also read somewhere that even without the NOT_FREEZING tag, plants just won't grow in some places.

Lemme see know...   Stygians are all well and fine (they even come up with some really cool names, thanks to strict restraints on the random name generator), but I'm not sure if they'll fit in here.  They're just something I wanted to do after the idea struck me.  I  imagined digging a ramp and a channel next to each other on open ground, building a coffin inside of the channel area, and then covering over the opening.  Using that method, I'd create a graveyard, with a tomb in the middle that had a stairway leading down to the Stygian necropolis deep into the stone.

Fun, sure.  But I don't know if it really fits, since [EVIL] creatures will ally with each other.  Also, I think there are trading problems with evil entities, since the Stygians showed up as "no trade" when I was testing.

I haven't added many new creatures yet, basically just been modifying old ones.  Lizardmen will have giant frogs (large creatures with [HASSHELL] apparently don't drop shells, and that's the main reason I had for the turtles) that they can tame and breed, but they'll have to watch out for green wyverns.  I've also changed giant bats into doom bats, which are slightly smaller but can be tamed (and trained), and have a poisonous bite.  I'm also working on some vampires, but I think they're gonna be a bit tricky to set up properly.

Hmm, what else...  I'm going to bring back a creature I made for a different mod (fizzled.  Unfixable problem) called a Frost Queen.  Again, taken from Age of Wonders.  Should be relatively simple, and they'll be a pain to fight since they have a freezing aura.

I'm thinking of adding in some sort of doom creature that has a very special attack as a secondary weapon (too powerful to be primary), which will inject a paralyzing poison with the [EXTRACT_PERMANENT] tag.  If it works the way I think it does, getting hit with that means nighty-night for eternity.

Gonna see if I can also make some vermin available from the embark screen.  Basically only good for spiders and purring maggots, but still...

I'm still open for suggestions.  If I like it and it "fits", it's going in (if at all possible).

[Earthquake Damage]

Permanent paralysis:  Because ordinary paralysis is, you know, not already a death sentence or anything.  Neither are thick webs for that matter.  We need permanent webs, too.

[Kagus]

Well, the critter in question will be a frail little dungheap of a thing, and wouldn't be able to kill an unarmored elf unless it was preoccupied with an iron man or two.  It will be a very weak and puny creature that will still be feared because of that one little tag which can spell eternal night for you, regardless of how many suits of armor you're wearing.

Oh, wait, kobold bowmen already do that.  Nevermind.

EDIT:  Blight, I don't think I can get goblin (or any other) slaves working smoothly.  I checked the old thread on multiracial forts, but it said that you had to switch out the [PET] tag from a creature.  I don't think anyone tested to see if it could be done without.

Sure, it'd be possible to have them running around doing menial jobs, but I want them to do it naturally, not because of some weird hackaround.  Too much work.

I'll have to think of another city-dwelling race to compete with humans.  Any ideas?  In the meantime, I'll try and add some useless tools for various professions.  Butcher knives, carpenter saws, fisherman rods, blacksmith hammers, clothier needles, etc...

[ February 15, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]

Weelp, it would appear I've got a slight problem with stygians and my insistence that they have a tag other than [STANDARD_FLESH] since they're skeletons.

On the bright side, I've now figured out how to make creatures melt.

Also, I apparently don't know the job tokens for butchery, cooking and fishing, as they're unrecognized when stuck on weapons.  Oddly enough, the one that does work is the clothier's needle.   The needle has [SKILL:CLOTHESMAKING], which I was certain would fail.

[ February 15, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]

[Kagus]

Well, figured out the correct job tokens.  For those who are interested, they are "butcher", "fish", "clothesmaking" and "cook".  Kinda strange, but so be it.

Civ units with these skills assigned at embark do not appear to start with them, which is a pity.  That's really what I was hoping for.  However, adventure mode just got a bit more interesting, as you can now play as a butcher, a cook, a tailor, or a fisherman.  You may or may not start with the appropriate weapon however, I'm trying to figure out what's going on.  Shops will sell them though.

I was testing out some slightly fixed-up Stygians in fortress mode (they no longer explode via freezing or freeze via melting.  DF has the most fun modding bugs of any game), and found out a little more about my new creations.  

Stygians are F*-in hardcore, man.

First stop, glacier map.  Ice wolves are everywhere, and I have no military equipment aside from the axes and picks.

Fun thing about Stygians:  when you see the "so-and-so cancels X, interrupted by Y", that means he's ripping it apart.  I had my herbalist (I was looking for some custom plants that were supposed to grow around here) wandering around close to camp, when he was interrupted by one of the white canines.  He stopped what he was doing, ran after it, and proceeded to tear it into chunks, followed by another one.

This is not to say that they're invincible.  I would frequently encounter "struck down" messages, since these guys have no sense of self-preservation, and will happily stand their ground against a full pack of ice wolves.  My tailor had his leg ripped off, and was crawling around meaninglessly.  [SEVERONBREAK] makes for lots of incomplete Stygians.

Some time later, after a couple stygians had met their ends to wolves (who then recieved names for their labors), one of the buggers started to chase one of my guys who had decided to actually run away.  He ran past Mr. One-leg, and the wolf changed course to attack this weakened target.

I figured "oh well, he isn't being usefull anyways".  Turns out he wasn't going without a fight.  One wolf chunk and a spattering of blood later, the wolf is running away with its tail between its legs.

After things have settled down, the ice surrounding my encampment is completely red with blood.  Fourteen dead wolves in all, two of them named.  Two Stygian casualties.

I should've brought a bonecrafter.

[Kagus]

Lizardmen have been scrapped.  They require the ability to define things I cannot do with the tools available.  They need to have very few weapon types (sword, spear, bow), all of which need to be made out of bone, since neither metal nor wood serve my interests in the matter.

Frostlings may still be in, if I can get custom plants to grow on the tundra.  Nothing grows wild on a glacier, but attempting to settle entirely on a glacier is foolhardy anyways.  What I want are igloos, and I will have to do some testing to see if that can be accomplished (they will only show up if a player builds them.  I can't get towns made of ice).  It might be possible to build an enclosed area that will melt the ice and open up the soil layer below for farming.  If this is possible, playing as frostlings will be difficult and very highly rewarding.  Pity I can't bring ice blocks from the embark screen (if someone knows a way of doing this, please let me know).

Bandits wil be added as soon as I can figure out how to make a creature ambush in the wild.  If that's not possible, I'll just leave them as a nuisance/thievery entity.  Kobolds may or may not be kept in as wasteland and desert wandering creatures, but definitely not as an entity.

The jury is still out on the Stygians.  I can't seem to find the right way of defining their body type as bones, so Stygian chunks will rot and also will count as "gore" when observed in adventure mode.  I'd also like to find a way of leaving a pile of bones, instead of just one bone as a corpse.  They will most likely not stay in as a fortress civ, but I may leave them like they are now, wherein they are basically goblins who don't bleed.

A desert culture of some sort might be fun. But I haven't seen any large deserts appearing in maps lately, so I don't know how much land they'll have to settle in.  

Also, does anyone know if [FRIENDLY], [EVIL] and [NUISANCE] are the only entity groupings?  I'd like to have this desert race fight plain-dwelling humans, by giving them both city-type settlements and making them like city-type sites.  I hope that they actually move in and don't just make idiots out of themselves by standing around gawking, but that will take quite a bit of testing.  

I've added in stone knights, but I can't think of what to do with them.  I decided to leave them standing about as semi-megabeasts, so you may get a quest to kill one from time to time.  They should be pretty tough, but I'll need to test them out in ADV. mode to really find out.  Who knows, I may even leave them in as an adventuring race.

Vampires will appear in evil forests, because I can't think of anywhere else to stick the blighters.  I could try making them settle "ruin" sites as an entity, but I think that would just make them quarrel with the zombies and such that will inevitably spawn in ruin-type areas.

Since lizardmen won't be an entity anymore, I'll probably take out the giant frog and giant turtle creatures.  I'll put in a "lurker" though, and my green wyvern isn't going anywhere, thank you very much.

I'll try adding an underwater race, but I may have some problems with underwater cities.  These guys would, of course, be amphibious, so they can screw around with the land-dwellers.  They will probably get scrapped as well, but I'm definitely sticking in at least one amphibious wandering creature, so coastal forts will have more to worry about than just zombie herrings.

Yeah, I'll be trying to add Lovecraftian fish-monsters to Dwarf Fortress.

[Kagus]

Blugh.  Something must have gone wrong with this last world, as it took over an hour to generate, and loading the world for adventuring was taking a similarly extravagant amount of time before I killed the process.

I'm hoping this poor laptop was just taking longer than usual working the thing, so I'll try it again tomorrow.  If that doesn't work, I'll create a new world.  And if that shows the same amount of time, well...  I'll have created a monster.

Frostlings have been added, but I forgot to give them any source of food at first (copied the Dwarf enrty and just removed [INDOOR_FARMING], but forgot to give them ocean fishing, river fishing or outdoor farming), so the game treated a local food store rather oddly...  There were no chests, chairs, tables or items inside.  The only thing in there was the merchant, and the game kinda locked up when I asked to trade with him.  I couldn't resist trying.

Not sure how I can give them a common livestock creature without it appearing for the other civs as well.  They kinda need it, seeing as how glacier farming is going to be a bit complicated for them.

At least they settle in the right places, I was quite happy about that.  Also, I haven't encountered any exploding or melting creatures recently, which is always a good sign.

I'm thinking about what would be a good siege civ.  What's the opinion of putting ratmen in, with heavy influence from Warhammer Fantasy?  I think rat-ogres would be fine replacements for trolls as shock troops.  And, you don't have to feel confused about why some short goblin is wielding a halberd or similarly large weapon.

I also think it's going to have to be a simple creature for the amphibious assaults...  I don't think this thing can handle any more civilizations, seeing how slowly it's running already.

[Kagus]

Okay, worldgen times have been softened a bit.  They're still insane, but that's mostly just the new version of native DF.

Frostlings sem to work alright, but they still take goods and animals from the warmer climates with them.  [COMMON_DOMESTIC] is my enemy in this matter, as I can't seem to figure out a way to specify cold biome animals as the only critters for embarking.  I'd like to have ice wolves or just standard wolves take the place of dogs, as it seems more appropriate.  Also, muskoxen are fine in the colder reaches, but bringing cows along seems a bit silly.  Also, they're taking temperate-region plants with them, such as grapes and prickle berries.  They also bring the seeds, which are utterly useless since they can't handle the cold and thus cannot be farmed.

Frostweed and ice flowers are the currently available plants for frostlings.  I can't quite figure out glacier-only farming yet, since there's no soil layer underneath ice, but they'll grow just fine in taiga and tundra.  Ice flowers can be distilled into an extract called "crystal nectar", which will really need its value toned down.  It's currently worth twice as much as gnomeblight, and it can be cooked.

That's just asking for a "buy the world" meal.  I should probably lengthen the growth period as well, I'll have to look into season times and such...

Other than that, frostlings seem relatively okay.  Playing a frostling settlement is a real challenge, especially if you're going all-out and building igloos for them to live in later on (to start off it's acceptable to have an ice cave).  I recommend bringing lots of livestock, as well as a hunter if you can get them to work alright.  Bring a bonecrafter instead of a stonecrafter, as he'll generate trade goods from the bones, as well as outfitting your hunter(s) with bolts and light armor.  The northern reaches are not kind upon the unprepared, as two polar bears, a pack of ice wolves, and a werewolf can attest.  Never waste what little resources you have.

In other news, I've added in a plant called "rock moss", which I haven't actually seen ingame yet.  It is a subsistence plant, as it has a dreadfully low value and can be brewed into the worst booze in the game (even worse than sewer brew).  However, it will grow (in theory) just about anywhere, including underground, and it takes half the time to grow as a plump helmet.  If you're in need of lots of cheap food, rock moss is the way to go.

And I just now realized that I forgot to test whether or not workers will pick up their new profession-related weapons.  Back in a jiffy...

[Torak]

Plants cant grow on glaciers because it's not soil or muddy. It's just ice, no nutrients to actually grow something with.

[Kagus]

I'm aware of that, I just thought that glaciers generally had at least one soil layer beneath the ice.  I forgot that Nist Akath was built on a tundra and not a glacier.

Still, if you can find some way of making a rock layer muddy, you could farm on it, provided you'd made a sort of greenhouse so the water wouldn't freeze instantly.  Frostling plants don't grow underground.

Speaking of water, I seem to be a bit confused as to how one goes about melting ice chunks.  I've had ice rocks sitting in a stone layer that stated it was "inside", "subterranean", and "dark".  Does it need a rock ceiling above it or something?  Or can you just not melt ice on glacier maps without magma?

More random tweaks are required.  Rock moss is too damned common, I don't need that much of it from plant gathering...  Also, job-assigned weaponry seems to go completely ignored.  Pity.  The weapons are going to be removed from the entity files, but I think I'll leave the weapon code in for now, in case I decide to add it in again later.  Nothing quite like setting out in adventure mode as a Dwarven tailor.

Obsidian and flint are being recolored to look black instead of gray.  Progress hasn't been that great, however, as I don't want an entirely black rock tile, and the foreground/background combinations so far have been kinda ugly.

I'm going to be giving the [CAN_STONE] tag to other weapons, because I feel like it.  So there.  Spears, axes, long and two-handed swords, bolts and arrows.  This, combined with the addition of sharp flint, will open up far more cheap weapon possibilities to certain areas.  Steel no longer holds as much of a monopoly on effective weapons.

I might give the tag to hammers as well, as the thought of smacking something about with an *obsidian war hammer* strikes me as entertaining.  I'll start with the sharp weapons, though.  Rock hammers will have to be added by popular demand when this thing gets released.

*sigh*...   Testing this thing is getting to be a real pain.  Worldgen sucks up every ounce of memory this machine has and asks for seconds.  At least it's back down to 20-30 minutes, instead of an hour.

As for a sieging race, is it possible to make them act like goblins without adding the [BABYSNATCHER] tag?  I read somewhere before that that was linked to sieges, but that was for a previous version.  If it's possible, I think a race of Norse mythology-inspired Jötun would be quite fun as a sieging race.  Fur-clad giants with massive axes bearing down on a fortress sounds entertaining to me, but ratmen might actually be more appropriate for practical purposes.  Or, I'll add both and you can take your pick with fort placement.

I still need something to compete with humans...   Some relatively similar race that dwells in (and thus likes and tolerates) city-type settlements, but is hostile towards humans.

Hmm...  On second thought, that might conflict with fort sieger races.  I'll need some more info on the matter.

Stone knights are pissing me off.  Testing them is a serious pain in the arse, so I've made a couple fixes (a [SEVERONBREAKS] creature that has humanoid joints is not a good thing...) and left further testing to adventurers who find the blighters.  I might also try to end their incessant sock-grabbing by removing their left hand (the one not holding the sword).  They currently drop a masterfully crafted granite longsword on death, but that might be a bit silly if you manage to remove the sword-holding arm before their death. Even the iron man statues make more sense than that.  Maybe I'll test to see if the game crashes if it's a suit of stone armor instead...

Devil hat mushrooms have been added (a while back, I'm not listing everything I've stuck in) to evil forests, and I'm planning on making "troll finger" shrubs grow in evil swamps.  Amphibious oceanic humanoids have not yet been added, and I haven't a clue how to test them when I do add them in.  I'll need to make an ocean-dwelling megabeast amphibian as well, just for the heck of it.  

I've been thinking of adding domestic silkworms as well, but large creatures apparently handle webbing differently than vermin, so I'll just have to see if vermin can be brought along in the embark screen (most likely be listed as an item somewhere...  probably won't appear at all).

Might make another milkable vermin creature at some point.  An aboveground creature, so anyone in the right biome will have access to their own cheese factories, without needing a chasm.  Provided you can get your dwarves to stop snacking on them long enough to tame one, that is.

Rock moss will grow both outside and underground, provided the outside isn't freezingly cold.  It doesn't taste any better, though.  I might also have to change the tile it uses, as it currently looks like you're farming vomit.