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[Deathbane]

Tne problem with adding new races is that very soon we will have a game that doesnt generate ome of them, ie race overload.

So if we are going to add custom races, we have to balance it VERY carefully.

[THLawrence]

quote:Originally posted by Deathbane:
<STRONG>Tne problem with adding new races is that very soon we will have a game that doesnt generate ome of them, ie race overload.

So if we are going to add custom races, we have to balance it VERY carefully.</STRONG>

Is this if you add lots of races or if you add lots of creatures?

[Rob Allen]

quote:Originally posted by Deathbane:
<STRONG>Tne problem with adding new races is that very soon we will have a game that doesnt generate ome of them, ie race overload.

So if we are going to add custom races, we have to balance it VERY carefully.</STRONG>

Unfortunately, even with 3 new civs, some will get replaced.  Limiting the number of new civs we can have will completely exclude over half of the mods that would join the project in the first place.

Perhaps now is not the time for a community expansion pack?  Later on, when more features are implemented, it might work out better.

[Sean Mirrsen]

You are forgetting that civs are getting an overhaul as we speak. It will be possible to make civs occupy zones that were originally not intended for it - swamps, for instance. Civ spread will also be quite a bit more different now, and even that 15-civ limit may be removed.

Also, it must be noted that it's 15 "civilised" civs that we can use. Kobolds and Goblins do not count, for instance, so races such as the Drow could use the same template, and be available as Play Now! characters without compromising the state of the main races.

[THLawrence]

Are you putting together all of the smaller mods to create a large one or are you creating a new mod?

[Sean Mirrsen]

We are making a new mod comprised of all of the more balanced mods currently created. Weapons, items, materials, races (not necessarily civs), perhaps tilesets, non-cheating reactions and alterations to mineral placement, anything else you can think up that is relevant, like my martial arts mod.

For now, we should decide on a list. Once a list has been decided, someone will compile all of the mods into one package, after which everyone will test it and submit changes, that will be implemented by the same someone (possibly), and released as v1.0 of the mod/expansion pack. Afterwards the process will continue to infinity. I suggest the compilation of the mod be postponed until the next release of DF though, because a lot of civ-related stuff will break or change.

[THLawrence]

Perfect. Lets get the list started.

Teldin's mod 2
Zoo mod
Morlark's Plant Mod
Botany Mod
Dwarmins Plant Mod
Mega Toy Mod
Mega Instrument Mod
Dragon's Mod
Desert Mod
Alcohol Mod*
Rob's Mod
Wiles' mod
Keildens Drow Mod
[EDIT]Martial Arts Mod[/EDIT]

*The alcohol mod is pre 3d so it will take a bit of work to add.

Of these I have already downloaded and mashed them all together. I have removed all of the copies from the all sections other then 1/3 of the animals and the entities. The entities will be the hardest part.

Dwarf
Human
Elf
Dark Elf
Drow
Goblin
Kobold
Brownie
Centaur
Succubus
Grullock
Wyvren
Arachnid
Mind Flayer
Azer
Orcs
Halfling
Nibelung
Various Outcasts
Barbarians

We need to pick which ones to keep in the community mod or else the game won't run.

[ January 15, 2008: Message edited by: THLawrence ]

[Sean Mirrsen]

Some races can be placed as roaming creatures, other can be made Play Now! - only, and they won't displace any main civs, rather be "random adventurers".

Also, you forgot my Martial Arts mod.  

Anyways, we can probably keep ourselves occupied with the rest of the expansion, leaving the civs to after-the-next-version, where that limitation may not exist entirely.

[THLawrence]

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>Also, you forgot my Martial Arts mod.  
</STRONG>

Thank-you. I've added the weapons and entity tokens. However since I am finished 2/3 of the creatures I would like to not add the other modifications. I will add NEW creatures. Did you make changes to the body_default? Those can be added easily.

Now then a better assessment of the entities:

code:

 
[CIV_CONTROLLABLE]
DWARF - Mountains
CENTAUR_TRIBAL* - Plains
Other Civs
Elf - Forest
Human* - Plains
Goblin - Mountain
Kobold* - Mountain
Drow - Mountain
Brownie - Forest
Grullock* - Mountain
Succubus* - Mountain
Dark Elves - Forest
Orc - Plains
Halfling - Plains
NIBELUNG - Mountain
Bandits - Mountain
Barbarians - Mountain
No Civs
WYVERN*
ARACHNID*
MIND_FLAYER*
AZER*
Ratman*
Batman*
*Has the [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE]
 

As you can see we have a large number of mountain settlements. This could cause a problem. Did you want the current files?

[Fenrir]

I don't think brownies would form a civilisation. Who the hell is going to want to play as one? EDIT: Oh, they don't have the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] tag, nevermind.
Why a Nibelung civ? It doesn't exactly fit.

[ January 15, 2008: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

[Sean Mirrsen]

It so happens that my mod alters most of the existing creature definitions, as well as altering some body parts. I can live with adding my mod the last, over all the other changes, because it's reasonably large, and I'll also need to add the same stuff to all the new creatures.

On your civ list - I don't know how detailed can civ placement be in the new version, but I suspect at least Hills and Swamps to be available as civspace.
Also, you should note that the creatures that live on the plains also form ruins currently, but that will probably also be changed.

[THLawrence]

quote:Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>I don't think brownies would form a civilisation. Who the hell is going to want to play as one? EDIT: Oh, they don't have the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] tag, nevermind.
Why a Nibelung civ? It doesn't exactly fit.

[ January 15, 2008: Message edited by: Fenrir ]</STRONG>

These are how they were without any changes. Nibelung should be removed since it orginaly refers primarily to very wealthy Burgundian royalty. It moved form there to refering to wealthy dwarves. So that one should be removed. Brownies should not be a civ. They should either be a type of vermin or skulking thief.

Question: Can they be both?

We need to decide whether to use dark elves or drow. They both are very similar(Evil Elves) and we probably don't need them both. Might I suggest having them be forest settlements. The name to be used (Dark Elves or Drow) is up for debate however.

The reason I wanted them to have the forest settlements tag is because then there will be 2 types of forest civs. Elves and evil elves. That could be very interesting as it shows a sort of outcast group or civil war.

Succubus are a type of demon and should not have a civ. Instead they could just be adventure mod only creatures.

The centaur civ should not be playable since the game is designed to dig into mountains. Not Prance around on the plains. They could remain as a civ but not as playable.

[Torak]

We should put the major civ editing on hold until next version's release.

[THLawrence]

quote:Originally posted by Torak:
<STRONG>We should put the major civ editing on hold until next version's release.</STRONG>

That would be best. It will take some time to figure out all the new tags.

Anyway here's the download:
Old Download Removed

[ February 27, 2008: Message edited by: THLawrence ]

[Torak]

quote:Originally posted by THLawrence:
<STRONG>That would be best. It will take some time to figure out all the new tags.</STRONG>

Far as I can tell, toady has gone out to lengths to make tags as informative as possible and made none with hidden meaning (you know how [CHILD_SNATCHER] is what makes goblins siege, and what not) so it'll take a considerably less amount of time for people to learn about them and their meanings.