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[Greiger]

I should probably point out that fire_immune currently doesn't seem to make them immune to fire.  As far as I can tell it just makes them not scared of pathing into magma.  
I used a fire immune adventurer and he still died in a little lowly prickle berry fire.  Probably need to remove standard flesh and put in custom temperature values, or just do it however fire imps do it.

[Red Jackard]

if you want a point buy system, why base it off of d20 system instead of an actual point buy system?

 :confused:

[Dark]

What does everyone think of these costs? How many points should we allow?

How this thing works: you start with the base entity and you change the values using points. For example, this base entity has a size of 5, doubling its size to 10 will cost 25 points. Changing the main attack to 1:4:PIERCE will cost 16 points. Adding a second main attack of 1:2 heat damage will cost 20 points. Increasing damblock from 0 to 4 will cost 20 points. Etc etc.

Its rather simple, I havent added costs for extra limbs, heatdam_point or colddam_point which could make it unbalanced if say, someone makes a creature with 20 arms (to block damage to vitals) or sets their heatdam_point really high to avoid damage from the HEAT attack.

Also, its possible fireimmune only makes you immune to catching on fire, so if you stand in a furnace you wont start burning, but your brain will still boil from the temperature.

Finally, we may just want to scrap point-buy systems so people can make their megabeasts freely, though probably unfairly.

code:

------------------------------
Spendable Points: 60?
Base Entity:
[CREATURE:PRIMITIVE]
   [NAME:primitive:primitives:primitive]
   [TILE:'u'][COLOR:6:0:0]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
   [SIZE:5]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON]
   [ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
------------------------------
Main Attack: 10 points
Secondary Attack: 2 points
Attacktype:BLUDGEON: 1 point
Attacktype:GORE: 1 point
Attacktype:BURN: 2 points
Attacktype:SLASH: 3 points
Attacktype:COLD:  3 points
Attacktype:PIERCE: 4 points
Attacktype:HEAT: 5 points
Attackspecial:USE: 2 points
Attackspecial:LATCH: 5 points
Attackspecial:SUCK: 7 points
Attackspecial:FIRE: 10 points
Attackspecial:DRAGONFIRE: 15 points
Attackspecial:WEB: 20 points
Attackspecial:VENOM:
     STUN:
          Partial: 10 points
          Full: 15 points
     PARALYZE:
          Partial: 20 points
          Full: 25 points
------------------------------
Damblock: 5 points
Immunity:FIRE: 10
Immunity:SUPERFIRE: 20
Immunity:WEB: 15
Immunity:STUN: 15
Immunity:PARALYZE: 15
Immunity:FEAR: 5
Immunity:SICKNESS: 15
Immunity:PAIN: 30
------------------------------
Size: 5 points
Special:TRANCE: 20
Special:STOUT: 15
Special:SWIM: 10
Special:EXTRAVISION: 10
Special:EQUIP: 10
------------------------------

[Greiger]

Any thoughts about flyer or will the arena only be one or two z levels?

I would also probably wanna add wings and a tail to mine. That possible?

[MechanicalArm]

Just for the note, Im totally cool if we dont use any non DF rules for it!

Maybe the "vote for it" method can work too!

[Dark]

quote:I would also probably wanna add wings and a tail to mine. That possible?

Yes, simply add 2WINGS and TAIL to the body.

[Fenrir]

Sorry for my absence, the demonic tendrils of reality dragged me away from this plane, but I was able to free myself from it's terrible grasp.

 

quote:Originally posted by Red Jackard:
<STRONG>if you want a point buy system, why base it off of d20 system instead of an actual point buy system?

   :confused:</STRONG>

I am as   :confused: as you.

Ok, so what then? There are five areas where points can be spent:

1. attack power - minimum damage and maximum damage
2. damblock
3. speed
4. special tags - [FIREBREATH], etc...
5. body parts

Attack Power
If 2 damage is getting punched by a bronze colossus (or a drunk, no wonder they're so tough to take down) and 6 damage is getting your head removed by a dragon, I think we ought to use 4 damage as "normal".

Damblock
I'm not sure how this effects the damage you take.

Speed
This one shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.

Special Tags
This is a difficult one, since there are so many different tags. Let's tackle this one last.

Body Parts
We need to determine how much damage it takes to kill one body part and use the point cost of that much attack damage for the cost of each part, and throw in a little extra for grasps.

All this typing to achieve almost nothing...

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

[Greiger]

Well yea, I know how to but I wanted to run the idea by y'all first because this would create 3 non vital body parts.  My megabeast would be a modified version of this

[CREATURE:DRACON]
   [NAME:dracon:dracons:dracon]
   [TILE:'D'][COLOR:3:0:0]
   [SPEED:1100]
   [GENPOWER:2]
   [BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD]
   [INTELLIGENT]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [CARNIVORE]
   [PREFSTRING:wings]
   [PREFSTRING:tails]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2HEAD_HORN:
2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:
NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:3TOES:MOUTH:2WINGSB:TAIL]
   [SIZE:7]
   [MAXAGE:70:160]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:claw:claws:1:3:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:5:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
   [CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
   [FAT:3]
   [EQUIPS]
   [LIKES_FIGHTING][TRANCES:2]
   [FIREIMMUNE]
   [DIURNAL]
   [SPEECH_MALE:human_male.txt]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10085]
   [LAYERING:5]
   [BIOME_NOT_FREEZING]
   [PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:10:60:110]
   [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:10:20]
   [PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:25:60:90]
   [PERSONALITY:INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY:0:25:50]
   [PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:50:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:ADVENTUROUSNESS:50:75:100]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

Thats a custom race I made for Fortress mode once I got bored of dwarves.  It's Greiger's 'race'.  I would probably modify it a bit more to make it more suited for this mod, but I don't know the exacts yet.

EDIT:made the body tag 3 lines to not break the board formatting

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Greiger ]

[THLawrence]

To prevent the complexity of the special attacks why not create a trial run without special attacks? Presumably the best way to figure help balance would be to make a trial run with each creature type only adding points to one thing. A creature that puts 60 points into Attacktype:BLUDGEON against one that put 60 points into size could show some possible imbalances. such as

code:

 [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP  :punch  :punches:1:62:BLUDGEON] 

Since I am fairly certain that

code:

 [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP  :punch  :punches:1:12:HEAT] 

Is much weaker.

The point system needs to be based not only on the change in attack level but also the current level. Maybe have the cost of increasing the attack level equal to the current attack level. So 60 points into the bludgeon attack would only buy you up to 11 maximum damage with 6 points left over. However since there is a minimum and a maximum how about.

Minimum damage + Maximum damage = Cost to move up a level.

Come to think of it you wouldn't even have to create a new world to do this either. Just get a few wild animals and edit the RAWS after theyre caught. Make sure that there arent any on the map at the time or else bad things will happen but then you can release them into an arena without creating a new world each time a new one is added.

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: THLawrence ]

[Dark]

I checked out the ironman and his damblock is 12 so:

-1 = soft skin (elf)
0 = default (everything else)
1 = tough skin (dwarf)
8 = bronze skin (bronze colosus)
12 = iron skin (iron man)

I know one thing: 1:4 damage vs 12 damblock will not hit very often, but when it does it can still do high damage. (broken/mangled)

Maybe we should forget how it works and make our own scale, depending on the material of our megabeasts?

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Dark ]

[Fenrir]

Oi, my brain hurts!

[Mr.Person]

Just reject beasts that seem noticably broken, for example, a creature with few vital organs and around 1000 arms. I think you should just force everybody to have a standardized body of some sort, maybe with renaming allowed.

Add costs for NOTHINK and all the other NOwhatevers that matter. NOEXERT is important. NOBREATHE is a life saver. How is equips going to be useful? You gonna drops swords and armor inside the arena or something?

What will the arena look like? Water? Ledges? Maybe a magma pit in the middle? Maybe make it like a Battlebots arena and have the edges trapped (I can already see the flipper...? If the fight wears on too long, be creative about the sudden death. Cave-ins? Water? Magma? Ballista shots? Hoards of kittens? You decide!

Rather than megabeats, just take two creatures that will fight, cage them, save, and then change their raws into the "fighters." Fight, then ctrl-alt-dlt out and reedit the raws into the next "fighters". Maybe use dogs and some wild animal and mess with those. It could take years in RL time to get the 10 or so megabeats you would need otherwise.

[Fenrir]

Can you make megabeasts more frequent?

[Torak]

code:

[CREATURE:TORAK]
   [NAME:Torak:Torak:Blood God]
   [TILE:'T'][COLOR:4:0:1]
   [SPEED:900]
   [MODVALUE:500]
   [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]
   [MEGABEAST]
   [CAN_LEARN][INTELLIGENT][CANOPENDOORS]
   [GENPOWER:500]
   [FREQUENCY:1]
   [GRASSTRAMPLE:50]
   [BONECARN]
   [EVIL]
   [NOFEAR][NOPAIN]
   [LIKES_FIGHTING]
   [PREFSTRING:Ever Burning Eye]
   [PREFSTRING:Terrible Mask]   [BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
   [BODYGLOSS:CLAW_HAND:hand:claw]
   [SIZE:10][MAXAGE:999999999:99999999999999]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:Manhandle:Manhandles:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:Pass hand over:Passes his hand over:1:6:COLD]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:THOUGHT :Direct hatred  :Directs Hatred:1:10:HEAT]
   [FAT:10]
   [MALE][SPEECH_MALE:human_male.txt]
   [DAMBLOCK:3]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [BIOME_ANY_LAND]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10099]
   [EQUIPS]
   [SPHERE :DEATH]
   [SPHERE:PAIN]
  

Note: If he gets near magma, things things should light on fire due to cumulative heat by him and the magma. Cool, huh?

Pretty sure I've just ironed out the general oversights, I haven't made a creature from scratch in a long time.

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Torak ]

[MechanicalArm]

Wow...I love it!

So, whats the general update on the project?

Seeing as things go, I start to belive d20 would not be that great as I first thought.

After all, if it comes down to the very basics of it, its about fun. Thus creating  even a 212232 armed megabeast based on a forum member is....fun.