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[Dasleah]

I would of said 'gentlepersons' but that just offends my English language sensibilities. So apologies to any gentlewomans (nuts, that's not even a word) out there.

Ahem. *re-adjusts monocle*

Say, for instance, someone was so off their nut that they were making a Dwarf Fortress Total Conversion, replacing nearly everything possible to transplant DF into another setting. This process would indubitably throw up some questions, which are henceforth listed.

Matter the First: How many creatures (wildlife) would be needed in order to maintain the level that DF has now, or for that matter, a seemingly viable ecosystem? I'm up to an estimated 40ish (no aquatics or vermin yet) at the moment, not including the sentients, most of them largish herbivores (of a most fiendish variety). I know I could go through and count them up in DF's raws to see just how many there are, but there is a difference between what's there and what's needed. So, overall, how many herbivores suitable for hunting is enough? And predators to hunt them in turn?

Matter the Second: What sort of variety of creatures do you expect in a given biome / environment? Would you rather see a couple of packs of creatures reliably meander their way across the front lawn every few seasons, thus allowing you to bask in the warmth of familiarity, or is variety the spice of life? Do you mind if all you get is Elk herds and Wolves, or the more the merrier?

Matter the Third: Can anyone give me some insights into creating crops? I've browsed the Wiki (and the raws) and my number one concern is how to stipulate that certain crops are to only be grown outside. From what I can see, there's no tag that explicitly says [GROW_OUTSIDE] or the like, and yet there are crops that can only do such.

Matter the Fourth: Scientific names. Does Latin turn you on? I ask this because a few of the creatures I'm adding are known primarily through their Latin names such as Paraceratherium, and that can be a bit of a mouth-full. I am going for some measure of realism, but would you prefer to see something like Giant Hornless Rhino instead? Or would seeing something like +Diprotodon Leather Pants+ be alright?

Matter the Fifth: If I were to create a blog that modmakers could use to announce updates to their mods on as well as general mod-making articles, would you subscribe / contribute to it? I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet here, just wondering if such a resource would be used or welcomed by the community.

Apologies for any monocle-popping induced by this thread.

[ May 18, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

[ May 18, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

[Cavalcadeofcats]

This sounds like quite a splendid idea! My monocle vibrates with anticipation.

To reply to your cogent queries:

1. I am unsure. A quick count tells me that - at present - there are somewhere from 5 to 20 non-vermin creatures for each biome (that is, temperate, tundra, tropical...), in addition to the perhaps 50+ creatures not limited to a specific biome, that including megabeasts, civilized races, demons, etc.. 40 is probably enough to form a quite jolly ecosystem as is, as - I would estimate - there perhaps twice and certainly no more than thrice that number in unmodded Dwarf Fortress, again not counting vermin, but counting everything else. I suspect that you are well on your way - but note that, so far as I know, predators tend not so much to curb herbivore populations, but rather to make attempts on dwarves. (I do not believe that DF includes wildlife-population modeling in anything but the crudest sense.)

2. Variety might be nice, but I should hardly mind the warm touch of familiarity, so long as the creatures which are present are interesting.

3. I believe, sir, you must go to biomes. If a plant has [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER], for example, it will only grow in the dark places of the earth. If it has [BIOME:ANY_WETLAND], alternately, it will grow on the face of the earth; and it if has both aboveground and belowground biomes, it will grow in both. An examination of the Unified Plant Mod, as seen elsewhere in these fora (try the search function in the top-right), may be edifying, or even directly useful.

4. Latin is the finest of languages; its absence, even in part, would be the greatest of tragedies.

5. RSS welcomes all blogs, that it may trouble the reader only when he wishes it to. (Sure.)

[Kagus]

G'evenin', squire.

1. You will need to take things biome-by-biome.  You will normally need at least one prey species, at least one "passerby" species and at least two predators, unless you make one predator that is both recognizably dominant and very interesting.

2. Don't go overboard, but make sure there's variety.  I've played on a map that had only foxes and deer, along with the undead variants of both.  Not very interesting.

3. Biome tags, like 'e said.  Also make note of the [GROWDUR:~~~] tag, which defines how long a crop must grow before it is ready for harvest.  I had the link to the season length page, but I've since lost it and it's 2:30 AM here so I don't feel like searching after it.

4.  Patella equus est, et cetera.

5.  No.

[Dasleah]

Ah, most excellent and comprehensive answers, my fine fellows! You are all invited henceforth to my wood-panelled Drawing Room to sup Sherry, exchange hunting stories, and congratulate ourselves on being the masters of the universe.

Wot wot!

I was thinking of including in the Mod a document entitled 'Welcome to the [Era]: Or, A Short Guide to What Can and Will Eat You" or something along those lines, wherein is detailed a small guide to the multitude of creatures that are either much bigger, much smaller, or more deadlier than normal. Not only for giggles, but also to have something helpful for the players identify predator or prey. As a general rule, though, is that herbivores travel in packs, whilst predators don't. Sound reasonable?

[Haven]

Well, we know there are wolf packs, so I imagine that's not entirely the case.

At any rate, I'd read the guide, possilby take a glance at the blog, see what the mod was actually all about, ect.

Jolly good then? Jolly good then.

[Fenrir]

*appears*
 

quote:Originally posted by Dasleah:
<STRONG>As a general rule, though, is that herbivores travel in packs, whilst predators don't. Sound reasonable?</STRONG>

Hardly:
Wolves come in packs.
Lions come in prides.
Wasps come in swarms.
Angry citizens come in mobs.
Orcs come in hordes.
Underpants come in pairs.

Cheerio all!
*vanishes*

[ May 18, 2008: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

[Cthulhu]

Fenrir needs to come back or leave forever.  This lurk'n'post thing is getting on my nerves.

[Dasleah]

Dash and bother, forgot about the wolves. My brain is addled from the (at last count) 11 new Elephant species that I'm currently working on, and thus explains by brain-porridge transmogrification concerning the subject of animal packs.

Bad show, old bean, bad show!

It's a shame we can't do more with animal packs - specify that only the females hunt, generate a chance that a 'pack' will be a solitary male, etcetera.

Oh, and extra crumpets with proportionate proportions of Mrs. Whittleby's Mulberry Jam for those who have figured out what the Mod is about    

Tally ho! *escapes atop a Pennyfarthing*

EDIT: Also, can someone explain [LAYERING] to me? How much is need to that a creature doesn't freeze to death? Looking the Tundra creatures file in native DF reveals that a value of 200 is needed (the value for Muskox and Polar Bears) - what exactly do the various levels of [LAYERING] mean? The Elk in the same file only has a value of 100. Is it 'insulation' that adds a level of resistance to the creature, so that with a value of 200, it needs to be more than 200 degrees cold before the creature freezes to death?

[ May 18, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

[Dasleah]

Replying to my own post. How... uncivilised.. I shall subject myself to appropriate lashings, never you mind. As they taught us at Saint Jeremiah's School For Saucy And Entirely Undisciplined Young Fellows, pain is the cleaner, and money a great way to meet chicks and fool them into relationships.

Anyway, would this work?

code:

[BODY:4TUSKS]
[BP:ULTUSK:upper left tusk][CONTYPE:HEAD]

[BP:LLTUSK:lower left tusk][CONTYPE:HEAD]

[BP:URTUSK:upper right tusk][CONTYPE:HEAD]

[BP:LRTUSK:lower right tusk][CONTYPE:HEAD]

I haven't tested it yet, but it looks like it would work.

[Kagus]

Yeah, it would work.  However, it might generate some confusion due to the upper/lower designation.  Folks are used to upper and lower arms and legs, so it may be assumed that you've got two-part tusks rather than four one-part tusks.  Just a minor thing.

[Dasleah]

Thanks. I agree on the confusion part - but as long as it gets the fact that there are four tusks, regardless of how they are arranged, then I'm happy.

[Deon]

1. The more the better. Just don't make too few, it will make the hunting part somewhat boring.

2. This question is close to question 1. Have a reasonable an maybe multibranched food chain [main predator-> big predator -> small predator -> pure prey] for every biome (i.e. <plants&berries <-  grasshoppers <- birds <- snakes <eagles>, while <plantsberries <birds> and <birds <eagles> ).
In DF food chain can be simulated by the creature type (herbivore/carnivore) and its size.

3. [BIOME: ...] is what you'e looking for. Basically it doesn't differ crops by above/underground but by biomes. I think that [NOT_FREEZING] excludes underground because you can't grow herbs with this tag (like a sunshine) in the underground.
Anyway if you want your crop to grow in underground, add [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER], else othrer biomes (NOT_FREEZING is generally for usual aboveground crops).

4. I studied latin at school and I like this language.

5. Definitely YES, I will contribute to it with joy. I already have a thread on forums where I collected al my works and I have this link in my signature. I'd better had a community RSS link there because I will develop my mods in the summer (now I have university session so put my projects on hold for some time).

 

quote:It's a shame we can't do more with animal packs - specify that only the females hunt, generate a chance that a 'pack' will be a solitary male, etcetera.

The only way to simulate this is to add different creatures with the same properties but one is [MALE] and another is [FEMALE]. That's a bad idea though because they won't breed.

What could be wrong with 4 tusks? They're nice, I have 4-tusked oliphants in my Middle Earth Mod as haradrim's exotic pets (I don'tknow did they have 4 tusks in Tolkien's books, but they had 4 in movie so I took it from there).

[EDIT:] Forgot to mention: my monocle trembles with impatience!

[ May 19, 2008: Message edited by: Deon ]

[Areyar]

Dear writer,

As your first three enquiries are already elloquently dispatched by a more proficient person than myself, in the form of Sir Cavalcadeofcats.
I will therefor refrain from comment.

On your fourth enquiry:
latin names?
Do as you like, it is your world you are creating.
Myself am a biologist of profession myself and prefer the use of prozaik names over their latin designations, although they have their uses. In scientific literature for example, however when in avid discourse, the often cryptic names are more a hindrance than a boon of clarity, only used if no other more mundane  descriptions are available.  
(By the way did you know that recent genotyping experiments have severely disrupted the classification of many species and therefore rendered their latin name defunct and open to amendment? Indeed, some have held on to part of their early latin names for a prozaik name as they recieved new latin classifications)

However for a medieval setting, descriptive names are more common than scientific ones, which were a renaisance idea (describe/name/cathegorize creatures in a dead language).
The languages of science in DF are probably dwarven for anything mechanical or geological, elf for anything nature-ish, while scattering the remaining sciences around fairly randomly.

On the fifth matter:
Personally, I resent blogs for their generally egocentric and uninteresting content.
Someday [BLOAT] will be replaced by [BLOG], mark my words.
In any case, as a link in your signature, I am sure many a interested reader will visit.

[Dasleah]

Excellent points all round, old beans. Some addendum's to the above questions, to be answered as soon as such excellent fellows deem forthwith.

Question the First: I'm currently using the HUMANOID_ARMLESS body for all my flightless birds, and giving them 2WINGS. Now, I haven't stated in their creature entry that they are [FLIERS], but the body tags (in body_default) have the [FLIER] tag attached to them. Will the lack of [FLIER] in the creature entry ensure that the foul fowl don't take to the air, or shall I have to add a [BODY:2STUBBYWINGS] component to ensure that they don't fly away?

Question the Second: There are tags like HAMMERMAN_NAME to change the titles of various jobs around. Are these just for Adventure Mode, weapon-yielding Dwarves in general, or do they affect all instances of that name? So, for instance, I want to change Hammerdwarves into Clubdwarves. Do I specify [HAMMERMAN_NAME:clubdwarf:clubdwarves] and this will rename them in Fortress Mode? I also want to rename Herbalists into Foragers - but I can't find an instance of [HERBALIST_NAME:foragerdwarf:foragerdwarves] anywhere.

More questions as they come to light.

[Cavalcadeofcats]

Regarding your latest inquiries:

1. The repository of Dwarf Fortress lore, the wiki, strongly indicates that the lack of [FLIER] in the creature entry proper will safely ground your birds. Testing would be necessary for certainty, but it appears as though 2WINGS will safely satisfy your need.

2. The name tags certainly work in Fortress mode, but they may not work universally across the UI - that is, [k]-looking might declare a dwarf a "clubdwarf", but the [z]-screen might list macedwarves or some-such. For the other part of the question: this may be helpful, or it may not. The raws are often capricious.

Apologies for my uncertainty. If necessary, I suspect that Mssrs. Sean or Deon might helpful here - they should show up at some point.

Carry on!