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[Sean Mirrsen]

Bump with content. Updated to 0.74c, fixed a rather dumb bug on my part, plus started on some other functions that don't work yet, so don't touch them.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Allrighty, I got the init file settings management covered, including a manner of a WYSIWIG tileset swapper. Graphics sets are another matter entirely, since they aren't modded per se, but entirely replaced. I might get to someting of that sort, but don't know how to approach that yet.

Insofar, the program provides the following functions:

- Installing and congifuring compatible mods, including merging different mods together.
- Creating mods based on other mods with less effort.
- Editing the init file settings, including saving change lists for re-use at version switches.
- Easy selection of non-graphic tilesets.

The general question is, what else?
Right now I've got two major ideas, but I'm likely to get bogged down in them.

One is a function to compare two sets of raws, one from current selection, another from a special folder, and save the reverse comparison result, providing an easy-to-use guideline for major mod spinoffs. I've already started this one, but the progress is already slower than the annual tectonic plate shift.

The other is a spore-inspired mod editor, which will allow a less experienced user to grab the program, select a creature/item/whatever from the list and make any changes needed, with a special "tree view" constructor for creatures and extensive explanations for most of the tags. This one was planned from the beginning, but I never got to start it, more or less daunted by the sheer amount of work it will take to even write out all the available tags.

Any comments, opinions on where I should head next? The proggie's turned out to be working quite well, despite the periodic outcroppings of ridiculous bugs.

I'll probably have the latest version up this evening (evening being 10pm and now being 6pm) so you can see what I've done there. I'm afraid that due to some of the intervening changes the loading of the mods got a little slower, but I don't think that's entirely uncureable.

[Surma]

Huzzah, wonderful progress you're making.

For the "compare" will it require a hard coded folder, or will it allow you to choose a folder a la an "Open File" command in other programs?

I foresee the 'spore'-mod-editor bit being the most difficult of the entire thing, but also possibly the best selling point of the program. The easiest bit will be the [body] tags since they're fairly modular to begin with. In fact, you could even have it create new parts on the fly with a simple wizard.

Most other tags are described in the Wiki _(here) but will still need to be divided into categories for ease of use.

The whole thing is just a big can of worms that you should probably develop separately from Mod Base.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Bumpity. 0.76a up.

I didn't find any obvious bugs, so keep looking for them.

As the "compare" is a strictly modder thing (specifically, a seriously determined modder thing), it will probably just use one folder. Not like you are going to do many massive comparations an hour.

The "spore-editor" is now less dificult, now that I've done init file editing, because it will be largely in similar lieu. The most difficult part of course is having detailed tooltips and specific placement cases for specific tags or tag groups. I'm thinking to do "a mod in a mod", as in make a specialized kind of mod that will be read by ModBase, which will use entry names and specific tags to define tags, tag groups, descriptions, and other stuff, so I could offload some of this to other people who could be willing to help.

[MuonDecay]

I thought a utility like this would be a good tool for DF almost immediately after I started playing and looking around at mods.

My only major concern is the work required to convert mods into a form that is compatible with the program, which (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to burden mod creators or altruistic third parties with converting a mod into something your utility can work with.

Other utilities that have done similar things for other games (the Oblivion Mod Manager, for example), made the process of converting a game-ready mod to a utility-enabled mod much, much easier.

As-is it seems like the end user, with the lack of technical skill that might prompt them to use such a program, becomes dependant on someone else making a mod compatible with the utility. If nobody does that, they may not be able to understand how to do it themself, which defeats the purpose of that particular subset of potential beneficiaries.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Y'see, the program can work with just about anything, all you need to do is point it to the files. All the deletion/referencing/stuff tags are just to ensure maximum compatibility and lack of hideous errors. I can list the things you need to watch for, mainly, when converting a mod to ModBase:

Body files. Anything that changes original bodies must be converted in full, using deletion and replacement.
Creatures - attacks. Attack tags are not replaced, but added. Since a creature is not limited in those, this will not cause major problems in the game, except unwanted attags popping up if the purpose of a mod was to remove attacks.
Creatures - singular tags. The program regards most tags equally, so if a mod changes [NOCTURNAL] to [DIURNAL], that bit must be converted.
Stone - environment placement. You basically run into the same problem as with attacks here.
Language - words. Editing words is not recommended. Adding words is allowed, however.
Reactions - reagents and products. Again same issues as attacks.

Most of the rest is easy. The program overwrites identical single tags, so sticking two identical creature entries on top of each other will yield two sets of attacks, prefstrings and biomes, but nothing of that will crash the game. In any case, using full-overwrite, just including an empty entry with a [!DEL!] tag before the one you are going to add, is enough to ensure compatibility with an older mod. (hm, I might add a special tag for full-overwrite so that no clutter is made)

It is very hard to automate conversion of mods in DF. Whereas other games already use modular languages like LUA for modding, DF uses very straightforward parsed text. Yes, I could theoretically add a function to replace mods as-is. That is, it would function much like the commandline utility I made when I first conceived the project. But that would kinda defeat the purpose of the program, it would no longer be a mod merger. Any mods would be plain overwritten by any following mods, and all but the lastmost mod would be severely use-impaired. The DF community has gotten used to normal replace-all mods, but all modern-day moddable games allow just saying "modify that".

Final note: Converting both my mods (Martial Arts and Minerals, both quite extensive) took just under an hour of my dedicated looking at the screen and tormenting the arrow keys and the delete button.

[Deon]

Her's a small component for modbase I've made:
TYE:Things You Eat.
Add this in the 1st post if you seem it's appropriate.
It's discussion thread and details are here.


About modbase: I didn't read the whole thread, it's too late here. But I noted that "strange" symbols from language files are just ignored which leads to unappropriate naming.

And this tool is GREAT! Thanks =).

[Sean Mirrsen]

Hm, wow, never noticed that effect. I guess I'll have to figure out something smart...

Your mod's at the top of the first page, Deon. Thanks.

In other news: mod editor interface is complete, for what it's worth. Now I need at least unordered and uncommented lists of tags for all possible entries. Then I can start working on adding them.

[Surma]

ugh that's quite a project you asked for.. I assume this is just for the object:creature tags and not the entity ones.

Or are you saying you'll make the list? I can whip one up fairly quick...

One thing I just thought about, getting all possible values for some of the tags would be.. interesting.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Er, no. The interface I thought up allows instantly adding any single-parameter tag (like [STOUT]), and for any tag that takes a value a window will pop up asking to enter the value(s). For more complicated tags like BODY or ATTACK, a special constructor window will be present.

And I do believe that for the moment, I can handle the list myself. I've still not finalized the concept of "tag descriptor" mods I'm going to have, so I'm going to work on that before I ask for contributions.

[Surma]

Righto, was looking through the raws anyway.. Figured I'd ask.

[Deon]

Thanks for adding the component. I think I should mention that you must regenerate the world for food to work.
I think I'll need to add more components which require world regen. to make it ready for the upcoming release. Everyone will start anew anyway .

Wait... Does it merge different entities files if they have the same tag? I.e. the way you add new items to [GOODPLAINS].
This means... I can make a file with ENTITY:MOUNTAIN and nothing but new item tokens and they'll be added to the standart dwarves?

[Deon]

Yeah, it works =).
Here's the conversion of Dwarmin hatmod I've made.
It adds a nice variety of new headwear types.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=247

Here's the conversion of Luggage's Instrument mod.
It adds A LOT of new instruments.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=248

Here's the conversion of uncutter and deblocker mods (now 2 components of one mod) which were made by Metalax.
It allows you to convert cut gems -> rough gems and blocks -> rough stone to allow you to turn those bought at caravan items to useful for moods items.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=249

Also I've edited the wiki so now it contains some info on Modbase (Utilities page, Modding guide page and Mod list page).
Don't be lazy, you could do it yourself . Consider it a joke, you've already done a great work for the community. Goood job .

[Sean Mirrsen]

Tank you.
Hm, "Psychic Peasant"? There was a certain "Psychic PeeWee" back on the TAUniverse boards..  you sure you're not him?

I've fixed the language issue by switching the raws reader into binary mode. Surprisingly, the text-mode writer handles writing non-standard characters fine...
Do you think I should update right away, or wait until the editor is more or less operational?

And Deon, the "Does it merge different entities files if they have the same tag?" was kinda the point of the whole app.

Btw, you've given me an idea. "Conditional append" will be very useful. As it is, a mod component that appends, say, instruments, to a certain modded race that is not present, will actually create that race's entry, which will more likely than not spam the errorlog or cause trouble in the game. I could add a conditional append tag, so that an entry will try to append it data if, and only if, an entry with the same name already exists.

[Deon]

I've got it, it's a great breakthrough.

Also there's a small component with a loud name : compound mod, I will add here different small features from my other mods as components.
For now it has only 3 components, but it's 0.1:

Code: [Select]

-Ironwood trees, can be hardened in smelter to gain sharp "ironwood" stone to make stone weapons.
-Hunt pack 1 - small pack of different trainable domestic creatures (cave bat, hawk, monitor lizard)
-Stone weapons - crude axes, spears and clubs craftable from sharp stone (obsidian, ironwood [1st component here]).
And no, I'm not that fellow. It's just a random line I've added after uploading this funny avatar (at least it's funny for me).

And your editor IS very useful already, so update it please.