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[Lyrax]

I know it's possible to make creatures other than goblins siege your forts and attack you, since I've seen it in other mods.  I'd like to know how to do this with a semi-megabeast, say, giants or minotaurs.  I have no idea where to start, and the one or two ideas I did have are proven to not work correctly.  Do you have to take out the [SEMIMEGABEAST] tag?  Do I have to change their biome?  Help me start here!

[nunix]

Those tags are only for entities; see the entity tokens page.

Basically, you'd need to make a minotaur, giant, et cetera civ, one for each creature (you can't properly mix creatures within a civ). And then they'd need to be NUISANCE or EVIL, or be BENIGN and you'd need some way to piss them off, and your fort civ can only know 1 of each of those (and possibly unlimited BENIGN; dwarf, human, elf, etc), so you can't have, say, goblins AND kobolds AND minotaurs all in contact.

I don't think you can do what you're thinking of, but give more details and we might be able to come up with something close.

[ March 16, 2008: Message edited by: nunix ]

[Lyrax]

Goal: Since it sounds like it's impossible to have a fort that neighbors multiple siegers, I would like to make areas that neighbor giants or minotaurs, in addition to those that neighbor goblins.  We'll use minotaurs as the example.

Old (non-working) solution: Place the [CREATURE:MINOTAUR] tag in the goblin civ.  I thought it was worth a shot, but no luck.

New Solution?: Make a new civ, with minotaurs as the creatures.  Copy info from goblins, and modify them to be less goblin-y.

What will this do?

[Helmaroc]

Let's make carp baby-snatchers! Then fishers will jump in trying to save the babies, and then the river miraculously changes color!

[Lyrax]

I don't think you can make vermin into babysnatchers.  Call me a party-pooper.

Elephants, on the other hand... <shudder>.

[Helmaroc]

quote:Originally posted by Lyrax:
<STRONG>I don't think you can make vermin into babysnatchers.  Call me a party-pooper.

Elephants, on the other hand... <shudder>.</STRONG>

Simply make carp non-vermin fish. And like 3 times bigger, for fun.

[nunix]

(side note: carp aren't vermin. that's why they can hurt you. I don't think you can make a vermin civ; and anyway a single cat could make it extinct, so it's probably not a good idea in any case)

So I think, Lyrax - and this is going off other things I've read on the board here - if you place a fort and it is within range of more than on EVIL or NUISANCE entity, it will pick one at random to make contact. If your fort is near goblins, and giants, and minotaurs, and each of those entities has ENTITY_GROUPING:EVIL, then you should only deal with one of those.

This is not from personal experience, however, so doing some testing and then editing the wiki with the results could be useful.

Download and unpack a fresh copy of the latest DF version, put it in something like DF_WORKING or some other folder where it's obvious it's a test-bed install. And then do the following to /raw/objects/entity_default.txt :

* Cut and paste a copy of the goblin entry to the very bottom of the file, below the kobolds
* change the CREATURE token to whatever you want (minotaur, giant, etc)
* remove all of the WEAPON, ARMOR, et cetera tokens at the beginning of the entry -- entities don't need any of them to spawn, and it will slim the amount of text you're looking at down to a managable level
* set their START_BIOME to ANY_WETLAND -- this should stop them from taking over land that would otherwise be occupied, and give them a better chance of making it to 1050.
* give them the token ADVENTUER_TIER:4 -- it can be anywhere in the entry, just make sure it's enclosed in square brackets like the others. This will let you start them as an adventurer, which can help to see where their settlements are (and see if they're making them at all)
* save the file

Now, generate a world and see what happens. Make sure to check errorlog.txt in the base directory (it will often generate as soon as you start the game if something is wrong) for issues. If the world generates fine, check them out in Adventure and see if they have settlements. If so, build a fort near one and play for a couple of game-years to see what happens. I'd suggest not making too many defenses, since you want to entice them to come up and interact. There should be something on the current page of posts, or maybe the next, about progress tokens.. I think you can change those to make them show up sooner, rather than having to wait til the second year or more.

[Lyrax]

Notes, in case anyone wants to see what happens when you do this kinda crap.

1) Giants are waaaaayyyy too strong to have as a replacement for gobbos.  Minotaurs are more challenging than gobbies, but aren't the wall of destruction that a few giant peasants are.

2) If you remove the BABYSNATCHER tag, then the first incident of goblins will be a wave of attackers.  In my case, they were siegers.  I was not prepared the first time.

3) If you generate a world, then change an entity, the world will be fine.  But if you generate, and then change the NAME of an entity, your game will be unloadable until you revert the name to what it used to be.

4) I now have zero goblin civs, one benign minotaur civ, and one evil minotaur civ, because giants were too overwhelming.  Does anyone know if cyclopes or some other semimegabeasts would be appropriate?  Are they less powerful than giants?