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[ThreeToe]

Yes, I resist magic.  But what about the DND concept of magic resistance?  I think there should be a more thoughful way of going about it than just adding  a number to your stats.  Willpower to perceive Armok's true reality and not the twisted effects of magic? other ideas?

[Toady One]

It'll probably depend on the nature of magic, anyway...  Satanic magic would be resisted by faith in Jesus.  If there are 8 different types of magic, there might be 8 or more different ways to resist them.  There's no way I'm putting in a lame DND number, unless it makes sense.

I don't know how people will resist some things though...  what about indirect attacks like making the ground below somebody into empty air?  Or sewage?  Or poisonous bugs?  It seems like a lot of resistance ideas are easily circumvented.

If people have ideas, it would be good to hear.  Along the lines of the willpower method, basically any stat/personality trait/skill/species feature can be reasonably used depending on the magic system.

[spelguru]

I think that in the default magic system (youīll make a default I hope) there should be one spell that is unblockable and it should be some massdestructive kamikaze spell that makes every thing within at least 100 km burst into flame and/or explode. The one that uses this particular wannabe totalarmageddon spell should just disappear without any chance of being resurrected.

And about a general resistance modifier, maybe something that makes unnatural, for example, fire (fireballs) or ice (ice blast) weaker or disappear. If the spellcaster is really skilled/strong, that resistance should be weakened or destroyed.

I donīt think that mages should be made even weaker. Sure, they rule everything and everyone at higher levels, but when was the last time you saw a wizard with a +5 twohanded sword? Or a magical full plate mail that saves you from every spell below lv 5? Wizards taken by suprise die, they donīt have any iron protecting at all times from a dagger in the back. Or an crossbow bolt in the head! Wizard use their magic because their bodies do not suffice.

By the way: ThreeToe, why do you hate wizards so badly, donīt tell me youīve played BG2 and hold grudges vs Irenicus.
I promise, heīs fictonal!

[ThreeToe]

Maybe the answer is an anti-magic barrier.  Instead of trying to figure out which spell will instantly kill you and how, the presence of an other lifeform will make it harder to bend thier reality to fit your twisted plans.

That's was magic is- breaking the rules.  So one method to counter it would be to have all beings generate a reality shield.  Weak-ass things like rocks have a weak shield.  Plants and bugs are a little harder to warp and change.  HIGHER forms of life are the hardest.  Then you get into willpower/faith/intelligence as anti-magic strengtheners.

This shield is added ontop of the difficulty of the spell- just because rocks can't challage your perception of reality doesn't mean you can make mountains disappear with less effort than killing a apple tree with mind-bullets.

[ThreeToe]

spelguru:

Once upon a time, years and years ago when me and Alanor were in highschool... We were playing DND.  It was my turn to be DM and I spent days creating an adventure in the land of the undead.  The heros (Alanor, Toadyone) were just setting off on thier quest to kill the evil lych, when... They were attacked by a hoard of blood-thirsty zombies!  Toadyone wields his longsword and curses will fright.  BEL-alan then removes from his cloak A PIECE OF THE SUN, which kills all undead within sight.  My adventure is over before it started.  Magic can turn any game into a boring god-simulator.  What's the point of fighting if you have a piece of the sun that can kill everyone!  I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT!  WHY IS THAT FUN!??!?!!

[spelguru]

It is not fun to be all powerful... I can agree to that. But what is fun is to have almost unlimited power and risk your life to just get that last piece. Maybe youīre an evil lich, trying to create an empire of undead. BUT!!! To do that you need peasants... so you slay an village. With an army of undead you move to another slightly larger village and so on. In the end, the only thing standing between you and ultimate power is that holy city filled with priests and fountains with holy water... That is the most funny part, you take the city, you win. They kill your army and imprison you underground or just kill you, you lose. The funny part is the risks you take and the gains if you suceed.

That is why in my world, the term invincible will not exist (exept for an material). Even if you become a god, worshiped bu the world, there is always something bigger and stronger (like that enchanted dagger that penetrates godflesh).

Invincibility is not something I would like, near invincibility is what I want.

[spelguru]

Also, why did you allow that piece of the sun into you game anyway?

[ThreeToe]

That's a good question...  I was 17 and completely disgusted- that was the last time I played DND.  

Playing a powerful wizard would be fun.  End-game type stuff.  I argue mainly out of personal preference.

What bugs me the most is that piece of the sun crap.  Magic is dangerous because it can easily unbalance a game and make it silly.  But thats probably going to be up to the makers of the universe... It will be hard to make one that doesn't come out funny.  For example- One kind of monster can always end up taking over the world. Magic can be made too powerful or useless.  There can be too many magic items or not enough food.  All these things make radom universes interesting but can also lead to stupid games.

[spelguru]

So what you want is a balanced game where every thing is in total harmony with eachother? You souns quite alot like a druid. But if everything is in complete balance, what will happen when the player arrives? The chances for him/her to live in a world like that without disturbing the balance is 1 to every grain of sand in the universe. Sooner or later (probably sooner) the player whould upset this balance and crash everything and total chaos breaks lose!

Things are so much simpler if they are unfair to begin with, and even withing this, there is fairnesss, a lv1 fighter (not undead) vs a lv 1 mage (without a piece of the sun): Fighter wins. Why? Because the fighter had strenght and equipment and the mage has almost nothing. Same fight but at lv 40!!! Mage wins like that. Why? Because the fighter still had strenght and equipment and the mage had superspells like deva summoning and death. Fair? No, cuz the mage had the upper hand with his spells. But they are about equals at midlevels and they both had the upper hand at one point. That makes things fair, so now letīs end this verbal vendetta about powering fighters and weakening mages since things are already fair.

Something we could talk about is the next patch, like when is it coming?

And I should throw in a Keep up the good work to be polite... so...

Keep up the good work!

[Alanor]

piece of the sun, piece of the sun!

Damn
You kill me 3 toe...
i had safely forgotten that...
its painful just to think about...

the problem is that i played (earlier, before 3toe) with another DM and some really stupid stuff happened...

so i had this super powerful character who was completely rediculous and didnt make any sense.... and it screwed up the game...

A NOTE TO ALL THOSE WHO WOULD PLAY DND:
dont let anyone take characters from other games without going over the character VERY VERY well..

I was like 16 right?
something like that...
in any case.. that whole event was stupid..
and my character wasnt even a MAGE!
i just had some stupid magical artifact that was supposed to kill all undead...
now...
quite simpily that is WAY TO POWERFUL to exist!

stuff like that wouldnt happen for very obvious reasons....

so.. forgive the stupid a** stuff we did in our youth
hehe