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[Krr1ss]

It's 6 votes on him. Also, would be funny if you jumped on the wagon. Wanna? Don't worry, under normal circumstances, he won't be hammered

That's twice now I've said something and you've interpreted it the opposite of what I said.

I take that as personally hostile.  You may feel it's funny.  I find it deeply offensive.

I say, "I don't want cake, I'll take [whatever else]" - you say, "Hey, have some cake, I'm sure you'll like it."

I feel violent towards you.  It's a trigger.  It makes sense to me to go aggro towards you in multiple ways.  You might not want to play with that, presuming you're doing it for fun, because I am likely to chew on you until I find where you hurt, and then I act really nasty in personal to you ways.

This is separate from power games - where's your power and clear self control?  To me -this- is just 'jerk'.

Okay, sorry, that wasn't my intention. Seriously. Also, I don't remember the second time this happened.

[Imp]

I took Magma Matter's hat.

Also: Magma Matter's hat was destroyed.

Agentt also claimed targeted Mater.  Supposedly per Mater's claim, this randomizes targets based on number of actions or something like that.

So, maybe none of you targeted Mater, we need the day to see how claims work out if we want to solve that I guess.

[Imp]

So in short, you have no reas on him and say that you can't read him normally?

Yep.  And you were given the short version D1 with the rest of my reads,

ToonyMan, Null, needs more time/posts/stuff to read.  Low confidence, want to townlean, but have seen him as maf in difficult conditions.  Definitely want him alive D2.  Interestingly likes Sal as well.

Why'd you pick us three to ask for opinions about?

Yes, I am a Hated Townie. I am hammered at 6 today (7, +1 due to Bloody Sunglasses, -2 due to my action).

Crystal, Magma, Imp, What do you think about Toony?

[Krr1ss]

It's 6 votes on him. Also, would be funny if you jumped on the wagon. Wanna? Don't worry, under normal circumstances, he won't be hammered

That's twice now I've said something and you've interpreted it the opposite of what I said.

I take that as personally hostile.  You may feel it's funny.  I find it deeply offensive.

I say, "I don't want cake, I'll take [whatever else]" - you say, "Hey, have some cake, I'm sure you'll like it."

I feel violent towards you.  It's a trigger.  It makes sense to me to go aggro towards you in multiple ways.  You might not want to play with that, presuming you're doing it for fun, because I am likely to chew on you until I find where you hurt, and then I act really nasty in personal to you ways.

This is separate from power games - where's your power and clear self control?  To me -this- is just 'jerk'.

Okay, sorry, that wasn't my intention. Seriously. Also, I don't remember the second time this happened.

To expand on this, and I don't care if it ruins the little idea I had, the direct opposition of what you said was a signal for you to figure out that something was wrong.

I started with "let's test something" and pushed onto a wagon that obviously shouldn't be pushed on. When I was told not to push, I even invited that person to push with me. It was, in no way, personal as I take mafia strictly as roleplay and all drama, pushing, sheeping, and similar are part of what my "role" is in this acting stage. It's acting. Like in a movie, I see this as a "role" and even when I'm stabbed by the villain, outside the game, I can go to a beer with them because we "fought" on stage, not outside.

I invited you to jump onto the wagon, partially as a joke, and partially as "telepathy" on "Trust me, let's try out something, sheep my idea". I can see how you took that personally but it was in no way personal and to be blunt, I don't care enough to fight with people here. Especially over nothing.

You saw how I act outside the game, this behavior here should have pinged you not as "jerk" but "he's doing something he's usually not doing".

Either way, I just wanted to pressure vote and draw it to the limit to see who would sheep and who wouldn't. If the topic of the day was Urist and his elimination was all but clear (which I'm fine with), I'd be able to get much more comprehensive reads based on the flip than just randomly people not having idea what to do and pressure appearing only EOD. In fact, there was no pressure last EOD (which should have pinged you guys to a degree).

So, in conclusion, sorry Imp for appearing like that, really wasn't my intention.

[Krr1ss]

So in short, you have no reas on him and say that you can't read him normally?

Yep.  And you were given the short version D1 with the rest of my reads,

ToonyMan, Null, needs more time/posts/stuff to read.  Low confidence, want to townlean, but have seen him as maf in difficult conditions.  Definitely want him alive D2.  Interestingly likes Sal as well.

Why'd you pick us three to ask for opinions about?

Yes, I am a Hated Townie. I am hammered at 6 today (7, +1 due to Bloody Sunglasses, -2 due to my action).

Crystal, Magma, Imp, What do you think about Toony?

Thanks.


1. you were online
2. There's high probably there's both alignments in this cluster

[Jim Groovester]

TricMagic possesses Bloody Sunglasses.

TricMagic gains 1 vote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uW47jWLMiY

There are a whole lot more reasons to suspect tric, but at the same time: his idea of restricting who we vote and night actions do ensure if there is a mafia among us they won't be able to act well.

TricMagic trying to take control of theater chat to get all of them to execute some sort of game plan he has in mind improves my opinion about him a lot.

I'm going to sleep soon, so I need to mention that I used an ability last night that lowers the number of votes required to lynch me today by two. I'd appreciate it if y'all took it easy with the votes and try not to accidentally kill me while I'm sleeping.

quickgethim

I was also messed with. My action failed, which was probably due to someone's interference.

Vermillion, Toastercultist, why am I voting you?

Didn't both of them completely ignore you when you did this on D1?

Did you learn anything then? Will you learn something if they react to you?

He has a lazy old man persona, slowly roused to action if he survives to later in the game.

You flatter me too much.

Makes sense but again, this reasoning is far from enough for me to change my mind. I'd much rather solve Toony, Urist, and Jim as I'm pretty convinced there's at least one anti town there.

You are free to create a case and convince me, presenting this as one of your points but I for sure am not going to vote out someone just for not voting day1

'i am going to stubbornly solve within the strong players of the game'

Alright, I'm intrigued. Run me through why you think there's at least one scum between ToonyMan, Magma Mater, and myself?

The way I read this is that you're going to vote within those three players even if there might be a more evident, confident scum target elsewhere. I don't think asserting there's one scum between the three of us on its own is that outlandish.

[Magma Mater]

Jesus NQT, you are a beast.

Another thing to apply, I believe it's called Zenon's Law. I don't even know it that's a real thing or something that one guy I played mafia with once just made up.

But Zenon's Law states that in a mis execution, if the person killed has more than 3 votes: atleast one of those votes is from a mafia.

Another thing that stuck out to me was,
Only one person died right?

That clears a few things.

We either have no vigilantes/the vigilante is one shot and doesn't have a strong scum read on anything.

And more importantly, we don't have any serial killers or like.


I do agree with NQT that the people who didn't vote yesterday could have mafia there, but that's really a could. I don't really agree with their reason though. I feel like I have only ever seen Doctors or Cops display the kind of behavior they described every town to have.

My reason is that, I have seen mafia is often lazy...it's very common for them to forget to do things. They could say they want to vote X on mafia chat and forget to do it on game thread.

I don't like that you dropped this Zenon's Law without following up and trying to apply it.

[Krr1ss]

'i am going to stubbornly solve within the strong players of the game'

Alright, I'm intrigued. Run me through why you think there's at least one scum between ToonyMan, Magma Mater, and myself?

The way I read this is that you're going to vote within those three players even if there might be a more evident, confident scum target elsewhere. I don't think asserting there's one scum between the three of us on its own is that outlandish.

Couple of reasons but honestly, I really like a challenge more than some easy way out if it's things I enjoy. It's also the reason I almost left Urist alive when I played against him first time even though every pore in my body was telling me to do otherwise. Did kill him in the end.

Anyway, that personal desire aside, I have reasons for all three of you. You're been in my scum reads from day1 and people's attitude towards you, I noted, was a bit strange. Which was funny because your posts were towny.

Toony gives me a scum vibe similarly because of attitudes as I feel like he intentionally is being scum/town read by some people for not much reason while he himself has very weak to no opinions on certain people. Don't ask, I forgot everyone, bad memory. Either way, as someone presented as second Sherlock Holmes, and with all those points, I would certainly love solving that slow with or without a flip.

Magma is self explanatory with his weird claims and he also feels way less assertive and curious than what I remember him to me. It feels very similar to his town play that I am familiar woth, but not identical at all. Not a strong scum read that's for certain.

Tbf, I don't have a strong scum read on any of you atm and can't ISO rn because I'm going away soon but I'll try to take this game 100% seriously and stop procrastinating tomorrow. I certainly have smart tactics I completely missed or ignored due to laziness while also not deducing to the best of my ability

[Magma Mater]

Today we need to eliminate from this pool:

Not voting: VermillionSkies, toastercultist, Jim Groovester, The Canadian kitten, Agentt

Don't believe me? Let's look at three random games from front page of the subforum. Here's Day 1 end of the last mafia game (player count 11):

Vote Count - Day One End

[...]

Not Voting (1) - NJW2000

Here's Day 1 end of Bring Your Own Monster (player count 12):

Not Voting: Crystalizedmire, Oliverz144

And here's Day 1 end of Wormwood Mafia (player count 9):

Not Voting       --1-- EuchreJack

In 2/3 cases there was a mafia player who didn't vote on day 1. (The one that didn't only had two scum players and secondary wincons.)

Mafia tend to be risk averse, they play it cautiously, they especially like to let town get on and eliminate each other without needing to interfere. They also don't have genuine suspicions. But this standoffish approach reveals itself in the vote counts. This list is not all town:

VermillionSkies
toastercultist
Jim Groovester
Agentt

When you get the chance, I'd like to see you apply yourself to the rest of the vote count. What are your thoughts on the toastercultist wagon that formed?

[Magma Mater]

Magma Mater (0):
TricMagic (0):
Crystalizedmire (0):
VermillionSkies (1): notquitethere
notquitethere (2): TricMagic, TricMagic
Imp (0):
Salvatore Monday (0):
toastercultist (2): notquitethere, Salvadore Monday
EuchreJack (0):
Jim Groovester (0):
ToonyMan (1): Crystalizedmire
The Canadian kitten (5): Magma Mater, Krr1ss, ToonyMan, EuchreJack, Imp
Krr1ss (0):
Agentt (0):

No Execution (0):

9 votes to hammer.

Not Voting (5): VermillionSkies, toastercultist, Jim Groovester, The Canadian kitten, Agentt

If we want a unifying theory that satisfies:
1) notquitethere's idea that there is mafia not voting at the end of the day
2) Agentt's idea that there is at least one mafia voting for The Canadian kitten
3) Krr1ss's idea that there is at least one mafia in ToonyMan, Magma Mater, Jim Groovester

It's possible that toastercultist and ToonyMan are paired. If I recall correctly, ToonyMan's vote on The Canadian kitten was pretty much the decider that got people to switch from toastercultist to The Canadian kitten. Particularly EuchreJack switched to The Canadian kitten because of ToonyMan's vote. If toastercultist is mafia, ToonyMan's chances of being mafia increase dramatically.

Caveat: if toastercultist is town, I think that ToonyMan is town. In this case, I don't think that a mafia ToonyMan switches from one townie to another, especially when the person he switched to was likely to be absent or modkilled. I wouldn't vote for ToonyMan without knowing toastercultist's alignment first.

[Crystalizedmire]

Yes, I am a Hated Townie. I am hammered at 6 today (7, +1 due to Bloody Sunglasses, -2 due to my action).

Crystal, Magma, Imp, What do you think about Toony?

I've been thinking about it a lot. I guess I like Toony better than before.

Who do you hate then?

I don't hate anyone, just people I scumread.
Scumreading Toony, Jim and Magma. I feel better about Toony and magma. I swear scumreading Jim has nothing to do with the fact that he might've stole my hat.

[EuchreJack]

Riddle me this Crystal: You tore into Sal about how scummy they were and how they should be eliminated. If that came to pass it would have been a miselim, would you hold yourself to the same standard you're voting Magma for? On top of this you even note players like myself and Jack voted Cat out of policy. I didn't even believe Cat was mafia when I voted them! You're looking at the game wrong, again.

I was fine with d1 sal elim but it wasn't my first pick. I know that town players can be wrong as well, for all we know sum may have been off that wagon.
Here's how the TCK wagon went:

NQT voted TCK(pressure vote)
Magma voted TCK
Votes were reset(unknown if Euchre knew that votes were reset)
Euchrejack hopped on(genuine suspicion)
TCK asked for replacement
Magma revoted TCK
Ecuhrejack switched to Toony
Sal voted TCK
Krr1ss voted TCK
Euchrejack swicthed back to TCK(policy)
Euchrejack switched to Toaster(to have an elim)
Toony and Euchrejack voted TCK(policy)
Imp hopped on TCK(trust from magma mater)

Euchrejack: Did you know that the votes were reset when you voted the Canadian Kitten.

I do wanna announce I do still town read Magma.

Infact I mafia lean my own neighbors.

Things are just difficult right now.

And your living neighbors are Verm, who hasn't spoken yet today, and Tric.

Please say more about why you mafialean them.  Like... just a feel or what?

Tric's pushy, so mafia?

Jokes aside I'd like to know whether you actually contributed anything to that discussion or whether you're vomiting someone else's terrible opinion.

I am vomiting straight up right now. I don't even know why you would be sussed. Tric is just a very scary person. Immedietley demanded absolute unity in everything we do.

Is this why maf for Tric, and the entire reason for sus, or... seriously please explain and discuss, each of them and whatever links you see between the two or whatever else you see that makes you sus them, independently and together.

Tric's pushy in the times they're town in the games I've played. Can someone who is more familliar with Tric's meta confirm?

I voted TheCanadianKitten both before and after the vote reset, and even advised Toastercult about the vote reset.

[Magma Mater]

Yes, I am a Hated Townie. I am hammered at 6 today (7, +1 due to Bloody Sunglasses, -2 due to my action).

Crystal, Magma, Imp, What do you think about Toony?

I've been thinking about it a lot. I guess I like Toony better than before.

Who do you hate then?

I don't hate anyone, just people I scumread.
Scumreading Toony, Jim and Magma. I feel better about Toony and magma. I swear scumreading Jim has nothing to do with the fact that he might've stole my hat.

It's really unlikely that the Street Fighter thing is related to your hat being stolen. I also received the Street Fighter video and didn't lose my hat. Not saying that Jim didn't take another action to mug you... because of course that is still possible.

[ToonyMan]

@Jack:
How many hats do you have?

@Fallacy:
Why do weekends count towards the day? I don't like it.

[ToonyMan]

It's really unlikely that the Street Fighter thing is related to your hat being stolen. I also received the Street Fighter video and didn't lose my hat. Not saying that Jim didn't take another action to mug you... because of course that is still possible.

I took Magma Matter's hat.

@Imp:
Process everyone's night action claims into an easily readable and coherent list.