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[Krr1ss]

Oh ye, Urist, last day, you said that the only serious vote with a reason for cat besides yours was Jack. I believe you misunderstood and that it's me as I literally made a small case on one of Cat's posts.

And I'm still astonished by wtf is going on there. Bro literally talked about how he was imitating town (in a way)...

[notquitethere]

Today we need to eliminate from this pool:

Not voting: VermillionSkies, toastercultist, Jim Groovester, The Canadian kitten, Agentt

Don't believe me? Let's look at three random games from front page of the subforum. Here's Day 1 end of the last mafia game (player count 11):

Vote Count - Day One End

[...]

Not Voting (1) - NJW2000

Here's Day 1 end of Bring Your Own Monster (player count 12):

Not Voting: Crystalizedmire, Oliverz144

And here's Day 1 end of Wormwood Mafia (player count 9):

Not Voting       --1-- EuchreJack

In 2/3 cases there was a mafia player who didn't vote on day 1. (The one that didn't only had two scum players and secondary wincons.)

Mafia tend to be risk averse, they play it cautiously, they especially like to let town get on and eliminate each other without needing to interfere. They also don't have genuine suspicions. But this standoffish approach reveals itself in the vote counts. This list is not all town:

VermillionSkies
toastercultist
Jim Groovester
Agentt

[Krr1ss]

Today we need to eliminate from this pool:

Not voting: VermillionSkies, toastercultist, Jim Groovester, The Canadian kitten, Agentt

Don't believe me? Let's look at three random games from front page of the subforum. Here's Day 1 end of the last mafia game (player count 11):

Vote Count - Day One End

[...]

Not Voting (1) - NJW2000

Here's Day 1 end of Bring Your Own Monster (player count 12):

Not Voting: Crystalizedmire, Oliverz144

And here's Day 1 end of Wormwood Mafia (player count 9):

Not Voting       --1-- EuchreJack

In 2/3 cases there was a mafia player who didn't vote on day 1. (The one that didn't only had two scum players and secondary wincons.)

Mafia tend to be risk averse, they play it cautiously, they especially like to let town get on and eliminate each other without needing to interfere. They also don't have genuine suspicions. But this standoffish approach reveals itself in the vote counts. This list is not all town:

VermillionSkies
toastercultist
Jim Groovester
Agentt

Can you tell be about your experience with mafia? For how long and how many games?

[notquitethere]

Can you tell be about your experience with mafia? For how long and how many games?

The first forum mafia game I played was here, in January 2013. I must have played at least fifty games here and on other sites. I represented the subforum at the mafia championships three times. I've also ran a load of games.

This idea I have about mafia players not voting isn't just something I came up with just now, "passiveness" is often recognised as a scum trait.

[notquitethere]

Obviously town players are more than capable of being absent from the thread. You especially see this in the ones who are getting voted out. But the trend is that town players tend to be more engaged, fearless, have genuine suspicions; scum tend to be more passive, cautious, don't have genuine suspicions. Good scum players can compensate. Bad town players can make themselves look bad. Nevertheless, in an info-starved environment, these are the clues we have to work with.

What's your experience been?

[Krr1ss]

Can you tell be about your experience with mafia? For how long and how many games?

The first forum mafia game I played was here, in January 2013. I must have played at least fifty games here and on other sites. I represented the subforum at the mafia championships three times. I've also ran a load of games.

This idea I have about mafia players not voting isn't just something I came up with just now, "passiveness" is often recognised as a scum trait.

Well, if you're gonna go for that, leave Agentt. He's almost surely town

[Krr1ss]

Obviously town players are more than capable of being absent from the thread. You especially see this in the ones who are getting voted out. But the trend is that town players tend to be more engaged, fearless, have genuine suspicions; scum tend to be more passive, cautious, don't have genuine suspicions. Good scum players can compensate. Bad town players can make themselves look bad. Nevertheless, in an info-starved environment, these are the clues we have to work with.

What's your experience been?

In my experience, scum was always actively voting, however, my town experience is pretty limited so I can't trust it very much. In my scum games tho, either by my influence or other reasons, all scum voted too.

[notquitethere]

In my experience, scum was always actively voting, however, my town experience is pretty limited so I can't trust it very much. In my scum games tho, either by my influence or other reasons, all scum voted too.

To be clear: most scum players vote most of the time. The day they're less likely to end up voting is day one. Some players (like myself) will always vote regardless of alignment. The other classic scum move is to keep a weak RVS vote on their target all through the day. Because, again, they have no real suspicions.

Well, if you're gonna go for that, leave Agentt. He's almost surely town

I would be very surprised if more than two of them were scum.

Anyway, as you're not wholly convinced, here are two more games where mafia didn't vote at end of day. The two previous games in Fallacy's BYOR series! FBYOR5 (14 players):

Not Voting: NJW2000, NJW2000, Nakéen

(Aside to TricMagic, look! It's a town double voter in a Fallacy game...)

D2 of FBYOR6 managed to have two scum not voting (16 players at that point):

Not Voting (4): Egan_BW, Imp, sofanthiel, The Canadian kitten

But, for good measure, to show that this isn't always right, here's a game where a lot of town players didn't vote end of day, d1:

(4) Not Voting: Knightwing64, Shakerag, Egan_BW, Jim Groovester

That game only had two scum, there a town player was self-voting, and the hammer happened quickly. So ultimately you always have to keep in mind other factors. One factor is the meta. Jim is playing again this time, and he even acknowledged why he wasn't voting D1. He has a lazy old man persona, slowly roused to action if he survives to later in the game.

I think Vermillion especially was more than capable of making a vote, and yet managed not to.

[Krr1ss]

In my experience, scum was always actively voting, however, my town experience is pretty limited so I can't trust it very much. In my scum games tho, either by my influence or other reasons, all scum voted too.

To be clear: most scum players vote most of the time. The day they're less likely to end up voting is day one. Some players (like myself) will always vote regardless of alignment. The other classic scum move is to keep a weak RVS vote on their target all through the day. Because, again, they have no real suspicions.

Well, if you're gonna go for that, leave Agentt. He's almost surely town

I would be very surprised if more than two of them were scum.

Anyway, as you're not wholly convinced, here are two more games where mafia didn't vote at end of day. The two previous games in Fallacy's BYOR series! FBYOR5 (14 players):

Not Voting: NJW2000, NJW2000, Nakéen

(Aside to TricMagic, look! It's a town double voter in a Fallacy game...)

D2 of FBYOR6 managed to have two scum not voting (16 players at that point):

Not Voting (4): Egan_BW, Imp, sofanthiel, The Canadian kitten

But, for good measure, to show that this isn't always right, here's a game where a lot of town players didn't vote end of day, d1:

(4) Not Voting: Knightwing64, Shakerag, Egan_BW, Jim Groovester

That game only had two scum, there a town player was self-voting, and the hammer happened quickly. So ultimately you always have to keep in mind other factors. One factor is the meta. Jim is playing again this time, and he even acknowledged why he wasn't voting D1. He has a lazy old man persona, slowly roused to action if he survives to later in the game.

I think Vermillion especially was more than capable of making a vote, and yet managed not to.

Makes sense but again, this reasoning is far from enough for me to change my mind. I'd much rather solve Toony, Urist, and Jim as I'm pretty convinced there's at least one anti town there.

You are free to create a case and convince me, presenting this as one of your points but I for sure am not going to vote out someone just for not voting day1

[Krr1ss]

Speaking of, Trik, Agentt, Verm what was your night chat about? I'd love details. Also glad we solved early on whether it was an ability

[Krr1ss]

Also ngl, I'm a bit pissed at Verm for not listening to me and shying away for mere sixth of a Soul and am trying to control myself from just OMGUSing him away. Yes, I am kinda a follower of sort where I wanted to see if he'd target someone

[notquitethere]

but I for sure am not going to vote out someone just for not voting day1

And neither am I, it's just a starting point. I'll go away and do an ISO of these lot and get back later in the day.

[Krr1ss]

but I for sure am not going to vote out someone just for not voting day1

And neither am I, it's just a starting point. I'll go away and do an ISO of these lot and get back later in the day.

Pay attention to Jim, Urist, and Toony.

[Agentt]

Jesus NQT, you are a beast.

Another thing to apply, I believe it's called Zenon's Law. I don't even know it that's a real thing or something that one guy I played mafia with once just made up.

But Zenon's Law states that in a mis execution, if the person killed has more than 3 votes: atleast one of those votes is from a mafia.

Another thing that stuck out to me was,
Only one person died right?

That clears a few things.

We either have no vigilantes/the vigilante is one shot and doesn't have a strong scum read on anything.

And more importantly, we don't have any serial killers or like.


I do agree with NQT that the people who didn't vote yesterday could have mafia there, but that's really a could. I don't really agree with their reason though. I feel like I have only ever seen Doctors or Cops display the kind of behavior they described every town to have.

My reason is that, I have seen mafia is often lazy...it's very common for them to forget to do things. They could say they want to vote X on mafia chat and forget to do it on game thread.

[Agentt]

Speaking of, Trik, Agentt, Verm what was your night chat about? I'd love details. Also glad we solved early on whether it was an ability

Mmn
We kinda just talked about who to vote today, and who to use our powers on.

I believe Tric has the same reason to sus Magma as Crystal mentioned, that we killed a member of town who wasn't even able to defend themselves.

One of my ability is to roleblock a person outside of the theatre if they are targeting the theatre

That last bit was something I never noticed so...

But orz, I targeted Magma with it.