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[notquitethere]

Imp

I recommend play to your wincon.

Yeah, obviously. But I was asking you with the possibility that we have the same town wincon. Imagine you are me and town, and you were told your ability failed. Do you think it would be a bad idea or a good idea to claim who you targeted at night or not? You had strong opinions about claims in the last game, but I'm seeing how you feel about this situation now in this game.

Tric

This feels like a supremely bad take. You're elminating from the players who failed to vote out replacement town? You might as well put me on that list too, and yourself.

I literally pointed out a whole bunch of games where scum failed to vote end of day, and you just breezed past that argument.

These four players failed to cast a vote at all by end of day. There was enough time, those four players could have picked someone to vote for and they didn't. That potentially tells us something about them. It gives us reason to dig in deeper.

Why in the world do you have two votes? Is it to specifically vote out toastercultist?

Having an extra vote is a very normal FBYOR town role. I don't think you're this dense. What's really going on with you?

[notquitethere]

Getting to the bickering-with-Tric part of the day 

The trickering, you could say.

[toastercultist]

Today we need to eliminate from this pool:

Not voting: VermillionSkies, toastercultist, Jim Groovester, The Canadian kitten, Agentt

Don't believe me? Let's look at three random games from front page of the subforum. Here's Day 1 end of the last mafia game (player count 11):

Vote Count - Day One End

[...]

Not Voting (1) - NJW2000

Here's Day 1 end of Bring Your Own Monster (player count 12):

Not Voting: Crystalizedmire, Oliverz144

And here's Day 1 end of Wormwood Mafia (player count 9):

Not Voting       --1-- EuchreJack

In 2/3 cases there was a mafia player who didn't vote on day 1. (The one that didn't only had two scum players and secondary wincons.)

Mafia tend to be risk averse, they play it cautiously, they especially like to let town get on and eliminate each other without needing to interfere. They also don't have genuine suspicions. But this standoffish approach reveals itself in the vote counts. This list is not all town:

VermillionSkies
toastercultist
Jim Groovester
Agentt

I agree that a standoffish approach is beneficial to mafia, but taking three random games from the forum and seeing that they just happen to partially support your claim has so many holes in logic. You can't just generalize from three games which have different mechanics, roles, and people from this game. Also, just because a specific group of people are suspicious, it doesn't mean we should always "eliminate from this pool." What if I vote someone random right now? Would that make me innocent according to you?

So NQT, could you elaborate on your suspicions and give more reasons other than a cautious attitude?

[TricMagic]

NQT that I did. Breeze right past it. Doublevoting on it's own isn't indicative of alignment.
Painful thing is, you're not the most suspicious to me right now. That's Toony. Maybe Kr1ss.

It's 6 votes on him. Also, would be funny if you jumped on the wagon. Wanna? Don't worry, under normal circumstances, he won't be hammered

That's twice now I've said something and you've interpreted it the opposite of what I said.

I take that as personally hostile.  You may feel it's funny.  I find it deeply offensive.

I say, "I don't want cake, I'll take [whatever else]" - you say, "Hey, have some cake, I'm sure you'll like it."

I feel violent towards you.  It's a trigger.  It makes sense to me to go aggro towards you in multiple ways.  You might not want to play with that, presuming you're doing it for fun, because I am likely to chew on you until I find where you hurt, and then I act really nasty in personal to you ways.

This is separate from power games - where's your power and clear self control?  To me -this- is just 'jerk'.

This may seem odd, but to note something Agent said last night: You've played games with them before and they noted you were aggressive in removing inactives and giving homework. To Agentt, was Imp town in that game? Cause that post I responded to recently is quite literally the same town Imp I know.

As for why I quoted you talking to Kr1ss, it's cause Kr1ss should read this too.

[Krr1ss]

Makes sense but again, this reasoning is far from enough for me to change my mind. I'd much rather solve Toony, Urist, and Jim as I'm pretty convinced there's at least one anti town there.

You are free to create a case and convince me, presenting this as one of your points but I for sure am not going to vote out someone just for not voting day1

Speaking of, Trik, Agentt, Verm what was your night chat about? I'd love details. Also glad we solved early on whether it was an ability

As noted, started with my putting my hat out there and revealing all of my role in hopes of working together. Just YOLO trust and see what the response was.

... It wasn't lukewarm. Agentt offered a good bit more than Skies, but Skies had the perfectly logical reasoning of thinking I might be scum. Which would probably have required me fakeclaiming an entire role based around something in the OP.

While I too would like to solve Toony, you'd need Agentt and Skies to agree to skip the whole Magma thing. But A: 1 of the people on the final vote, as was toony. And B: Not particularly helpful to town if you selfishly hoard. You weren't making yourself a target by hiding Magma, you were doing the opposite. This very argument is what would allow Scum:Tric to get you voted out, and I'd have already placed my votes on you if that were the case. As is I decided to catch up first. Well, after immediately firing off the hat ability to make it 0-shot.

I'm confused, why would you vote me out and how did I hide Urist?

[notquitethere]

ToasterCultist

taking three random games from the forum and seeing that they just happen to partially support your claim has so many holes in logic.

No mate, what I did was make a claim that passivity is a common scum trait, and point to four recent games where scum failed to vote (I had a followup post) to demonstrate that I wasn't pulling that claim out of nowhere. You played passively on Day One. You failed to make a vote. You can't get in a time machine and fix that, it's a permanent stain. A mark of suspicion.

So NQT, could you elaborate on your suspicions and give more reasons other than a cautious attitude?

FOSing me when you could be voting me. Another red flag! I took a look back to see what you did after I voted you on D1, and so far you've done nothing. If you start to do things I may very well update my opinion.

[Imp]

Imp

I recommend play to your wincon.

Yeah, obviously. But I was asking you with the possibility that we have the same town wincon. Imagine you are me and town, and you were told your ability failed. Do you think it would be a bad idea or a good idea to claim who you targeted at night or not? You had strong opinions about claims in the last game, but I'm seeing how you feel about this situation now in this game.

Thing is, I dunno WHAT your ability is, the rest of your role, and how you can best play and solve.  Last game with all those ways to mess with people doing 'whatever' action, I needed to never be identified as someone who could only self-target and doing so changed locations.  If that was known I'd easily be prevented from ever actioning; I needed to unlock some stuff to have chances later.  Thus, I was completely anti-claim for myself, I couldn't do anything else.  I could never have a confirmable action and couldn't 'choose to do something else' if my self-target got locked down (as it did N2, and I didn't mention because... if that was purposeful and intentional and I confirm in any way... I'm trapped forever if someone who can wants that).  Terrifying game.

You know all your abilities; you know that ability.  You know how you plan to play or that you don't know how to plan to play.

I don't have a single rule of thumb; many games I claim some or all of my actions; I may have 1 or very many (thank you for that, you glorious host of then).

My broad rule of thumb's zoomed out, consider everything you can do, consider what you think is in play that may work with or counter.  Clearly you felt it helpful to say what you've said.

Now we know an ability can get disabled or you lied about that (I figure you are honest but I can't confirm); if you targeted me with it I can confirm that I don't have a way to disable abilities that target me (possible exception, if I know the exact ability name + target the person with it, while trying towards disabling it - doesn't matter if it's being used on me or not at that point.  But 'disabled' is not a natural way for me to change an ability.  I could try to make it grow, try to make it change completely, and I can aim for a few other directions... I sure could try towards disabled but that's not really a high probability outcome to get for what I can do).  So if you report you targeted me I've already reported I dunno what happened, something else explains it.  Otherwise, eval as best you can; I don't think anyone said something about, or their behavior indicates that they are trying to be 'entirely town secret'.  But that is something I consider about what I reveal.  And if I should reveal when I have info.

The Supernormal game, I wanted you ignored and not discussed, left totally alone except to protect - once I realized what you were doing there.  Before then I was a bit tense about you, but we had far bigger concerns.  Last game I wanted me left totally alone, maybe not even protected not that I was gonna say anything to inform maf in any way.

This game, it's unknown.  My role's utility, I love that kinda role and problems to fix, but it also means that for now and maybe for all game, I'm literally a wildcard that affect other people, and in an information-shared sort of way.  My role hugely affects how I play and view the game, my role and my life circumstances during play are the biggest things for me and how I play.  I don't know anything that makes me think 'Uhh, hide everything from maf this game'.  Some games that matters.  Your CYOS1, that didn't really matter, sharing info got maf caught and helped town a lot.  So, I eval on the spot each game.

[TricMagic]

Next page: Kr1ss Towning. sighs. This is why I put them in theater with the rest of us.

Magma Mater (0):
TricMagic (0):
Crystalizedmire (0):
VermillionSkies (1): notquitethere
notquitethere (2): TricMagic, TricMagic
Imp (0):
Salvatore Monday (0):
toastercultist (2): notquitethere, Salvadore Monday
EuchreJack (0):
Jim Groovester (0):
ToonyMan (1): Crystalizedmire
The Canadian kitten (5): Magma Mater, Krr1ss, ToonyMan, EuchreJack, Imp
Krr1ss (0):
Agentt (0):

No Execution (0):

9 votes to hammer.

Not Voting (5): VermillionSkies, toastercultist, Jim Groovester, The Canadian kitten, Agentt

If we want a unifying theory that satisfies:
1) notquitethere's idea that there is mafia not voting at the end of the day
2) Agentt's idea that there is at least one mafia voting for The Canadian kitten
3) Krr1ss's idea that there is at least one mafia in ToonyMan, Magma Mater, Jim Groovester

It's possible that toastercultist and ToonyMan are paired. If I recall correctly, ToonyMan's vote on The Canadian kitten was pretty much the decider that got people to switch from toastercultist to The Canadian kitten. Particularly EuchreJack switched to The Canadian kitten because of ToonyMan's vote. If toastercultist is mafia, ToonyMan's chances of being mafia increase dramatically.

Caveat: if toastercultist is town, I think that ToonyMan is town. In this case, I don't think that a mafia ToonyMan switches from one townie to another, especially when the person he switched to was likely to be absent or modkilled. I wouldn't vote for ToonyMan without knowing toastercultist's alignment first.

Hmm... If I remember my readlist correctly, I put toaster in Town. Oddly enough Magma defended Toony there too.

Savador is solved for, NQT isn't really pinging the mafia sense. So Jack, ... well Jack hasn't really stood out so far today. Which is odd. Will doublecheck that at the end of this. Jim's still sitting at probably town if a bit higher today.

Process of elimination still puts Toony and Magma on the chopping block for me.

Ninja's the lot of you!

[Imp]

Getting to the bickering-with-Tric part of the day 

The trickering, you could say.

LOL.  Now that feels good humor to me, thanks!

[TricMagic]

Reading, Crystal continues to swing upward in town cred. Actually working things out by PoE.

nods. Which means my own vote is crystalizing as well. I've eliminated near every other suspect from my list.

Ninjaimp: Page 66 right now.

[TricMagic]

46, not 66.

[Krr1ss]

NQT that I did. Breeze right past it. Doublevoting on it's own isn't indicative of alignment.
Painful thing is, you're not the most suspicious to me right now. That's Toony. Maybe Kr1ss.

It's 6 votes on him. Also, would be funny if you jumped on the wagon. Wanna? Don't worry, under normal circumstances, he won't be hammered

That's twice now I've said something and you've interpreted it the opposite of what I said.

I take that as personally hostile.  You may feel it's funny.  I find it deeply offensive.

I say, "I don't want cake, I'll take [whatever else]" - you say, "Hey, have some cake, I'm sure you'll like it."

I feel violent towards you.  It's a trigger.  It makes sense to me to go aggro towards you in multiple ways.  You might not want to play with that, presuming you're doing it for fun, because I am likely to chew on you until I find where you hurt, and then I act really nasty in personal to you ways.

This is separate from power games - where's your power and clear self control?  To me -this- is just 'jerk'.

This may seem odd, but to note something Agent said last night: You've played games with them before and they noted you were aggressive in removing inactives and giving homework. To Agentt, was Imp town in that game? Cause that post I responded to recently is quite literally the same town Imp I know.

As for why I quoted you talking to Kr1ss, it's cause Kr1ss should read this too.

There's a game that ended before even full 48h day passed due to incidents. Agentt was town player, Imp was scum, and I was host. Her enthusiasm and "pro-town" mindset was certainly highest in the playerbase. She urged people to participate and also gave homework while trying to stay as kind as possible. Each post that she considered (like threatening to vote them out for not participating) she carefully asked us hosts for the opinion and whether it was fair. Behavior and enthusiasm wise, she was the most town person and the most excited person. In fact, she single handedly made us hosts cheer for scum team.

Anyway, the point is, she has pro-town mindset even as scum and inactives and people unwilling to give good participation were certainly called out by her. If that's the question you have.

[TricMagic]

It's really unlikely that the Street Fighter thing is related to your hat being stolen. I also received the Street Fighter video and didn't lose my hat. Not saying that Jim didn't take another action to mug you... because of course that is still possible.

It's directly related.

ToonyMan called it right. I took CM's hat and in the process sent a message featuring M. Bison so CM would know it was me.

I also targeted you and sent you a message. Which video did you receive? I sent you and CM different videos.

I expected I would be redirected or that you would be bussed with somebody and they'd get my video instead, since that's what you claimed. I wanted to test your claim and sending messages along with my actions seemed like a pretty good way to sort out where my actions actually ended up.

So, what gives?

Alright rather than lie further about my role, I'll come clean.
I'm the usurper.
Anyone who targets me with an ability will lose it, and I gain it instead. Although, I don't know what the abilities do.

I'll explain the fakeclaim. I wanted to do two things:
1) Dissuade anyone with a good town ability, such as an inspect, from targeting me and losing that ability. I feel like I achieved that since I was only targeted by three things last night, two of them being claimed.
2) Encourage mafia to target me. Basically, I wanted to make myself a honeypot, where they'd be encouraged to target me with non-lethal abilities in order to mess with the town. I'm not sure whether I achieved this, but we'll see in post-game.

I know that people are going to want to vote for me. But please think hard about the above, and consider whether I would try to AVOID be targeted if I were mafia.

And so I come back to this post.

1) People with a good ability may wish to test it on you to find if your claim is true. Needless to say it immediately crumpled after one night, losing people actions entirely. Scum will never target someone random intentionally in case it backfires on them. Scum being able to be killed by their own ability can vary from game to game but...
2) Mafia will not kill those too suspicious. They would rather use that very suspiciousness to lynch them. I.E. Me doing it here. Rather you should become so valuable that you're forced to be targeted. Claiming something like Cop or JOAT likely would have worked for that, or you could just play a devastating day game and force the target.

I'll go ahead and say Imp would be dead right now if I was Mafia. Imp is way too scary as town to think otherwise, and too accurate. Most of the time.

[toastercultist]

ToasterCultist

taking three random games from the forum and seeing that they just happen to partially support your claim has so many holes in logic.

No mate, what I did was make a claim that passivity is a common scum trait, and point to four recent games where scum failed to vote (I had a followup post) to demonstrate that I wasn't pulling that claim out of nowhere. You played passively on Day One. You failed to make a vote. You can't get in a time machine and fix that, it's a permanent stain. A mark of suspicion.

You did claim that passivity was a common scum trait, but you're making it seem like that was the only thing you claimed. Claiming that we should suspect the people not voting is okay, but claiming we need to eliminate one person from that group seems extreme, doesn't it?

Also what??? I played passively on D1?? I don't need to get in a time machine and fix that, as the evidence points to the contrary. While I'm not proud of this decision, I almost immediately had suspicions for EuchreJack and defended my points. You can't simply look at the final (votes were reset) counter, see I didn't vote, and generalize that I was playing passively the entire time.

So NQT, could you elaborate on your suspicions and give more reasons other than a cautious attitude?

FOSing me when you could be voting me. Another red flag! I took a look back to see what you did after I voted you on D1, and so far you've done nothing. If you start to do things I may very well update my opinion.

Are you even.. taking this game seriously?? If that's your main criterion for suspicion, then why not, NQT.

Spoiler: Off-topic (click to show/hide)

I find it strange that your post has a "thumbs down" icon. That's funny.

[TricMagic]

There are a whole lot more reasons to suspect tric, but at the same time: his idea of restricting who we vote and night actions do ensure if there is a mafia among us they won't be able to act well.

So, you guys did an entire plan of night actions, and vote actions?

I would like to say this theater chat was less than useless. All my role info extended in a hand of trust, only to have it all slapped away.

This is on top of any communication going silent, causing me to miss submitting an action at all. Well, I can still do this.

TricMagic We all know what's coming, didn't expect it to be two shot right? Well the hats are in fact two shot apparently.

Tric, what's going on?  I bet a lot of probing.  What else and what do you mean about 'any communication going silent'?

You didn't submit action(s) because why exactly?

What's going on from your perspective?  Your attitude towards Agentt today doesn't really feel like 'you checking someone out and then [whatever]' - granted my only private chats with you was thanks to Max and you were maf that game.  Still, I really wanna know your perspective and what you're doing on the levels makes sense to share.

I thought I had 48 hours, not 24. So wake up to apparently the night already over, figuring they'd have answered by then. Nope, no other messages.

... Game to Tric.

Night 1 started, PST on 3-5-25 at about 7:52 PM.

Night 1 ended, PST, on 3-7-25 at about 7:57 PM.

That's approximately 48 hours.

And about 24 hours longer than we were told to expect initially.

Yadayada didn't submit actions despite apparently planning out the actions of 2 people beside yourself - whatever, that's your claim.  Yes I'd like to hear more but I asked far more than just about that.

What are you doing?  Anything that your wincon benefits to discuss?  I want to know your perspective and what you're doing on whatever levels make sense to share.

The answer you provided is... voteable.  Huh?  Hello?  Remember, if you're town, I need you.  If you're going to claim towny secret or 'theatrekid secret' or whatever, you skip alot of 'the heck you're doing' if you outright claim that - then I measure you by those standards (and you may die for it, those are very special and rarely to be used standards in my eyes - I used them in Mater's last hosted game).  You're not even discussing your perspective?  The flip you doing.

I can come back to this bolded point now. Put simply I benefit as the Theater reduces. This is something they know as well. When the clock strikes 1, the magic ends and the curtains close. At which point I die. It's why I'm not even bothering to play the hat victory. I'm unlikely to live long enough for it to go off when Verm is going to die.

This is also why I wanted to unite the theater and work together. I'll also note I can destroy hats, but the effect is a lot more devasting than just that. I can destroy every single hat you have. Which is another reason the hat victory won't work. Used on someone at the right time I can elim 4+ hats in a single note. As there are only 11 of them left, that leaves 7 at best. And we all have a free ability to do so.

Agentt and Skies can both confirm I claimed that in the chat.