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[Imp]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh yeah, of course I called EP on that back then.  His answer.

Huh. I guess the question now is who takes sheriff…

I’m still not sure if I think it’s worth a vote. I guess Imp taking it would probably make my life easier, but it wouldn’t lead to hitting scum. Then again, I don’t particularly trust the power will work anyway… so possibly no great loss?

Imp took dorm, and mod says nobody has a double vote yet, the vote count would show it.

So.  I can't take it.

I am already betting town, or a large part of it, on the auction being townie.  It was not a blind bet; I know something that helped me think it is more likely to be townie.  So I sure hope that someone takes the sheriff office before end of day because the claim is that must be done to unlock the mech of the auction.

Sure, I'd prefer someone town to take it.  That could be you; I could be wrong about my read of you.  I'd like to be wrong about my read of you.  I freaking like you a lot this game.  It would be so awesome to like you that much and you're even town.

Everyone is going to figure everyone out by their play and posts and whatever mess of mech and other info we get.

I still care who takes Sheriff.... but I've accepted it's just more info.

If you take it and live to report on however you use it (and it's free, so it makes sense for a report on how it was used, even if someone has no interest in using it) that's more info.

Heck, at this moment I wanna say I want Elephant Parade to take it.  I don't think Elephant's reasoning is usefully town and everyone he wants to vote for I either know is town, strongly townlean, or weakly townlean, with the exception of Juicebox... who he said he'd vote even in preference for me back

juicebox, Hyper: Neither of you have posted enough for me to get any kind of read on you, which means I'd be perfectly willing to execute either one of you today. Please fix this!

Look at these freaking reads.

IS OKAY WITH PEOPLE WHO HARDLY POSTED AT ALL, without any claims of mech backup, meta backup, or other reasoning.  They're not null, they're okay.

I mean, I'm sorry if I'm yelling at you about your partner.  But if EP is town, it's FBYOR Imp vs Secretdorf time.  Yeah, he flipped town and so did I.  And yeah people were sad to lose one or the both of us.  But I swear Secret was gonna get town dead.  Town does that sometimes.  If EP is town, his reasoning is hurting town.

So, if EP votes for Sheriff Office, that gets a vote out of D1 play when there's VERY FEW VOTES left and I know he wants me dead, one of my top town reads dead, or someone I lean town on dead - or just all of town dead with some preferred to go first.

Town Lean
NJW: pushing the game forward without fluffing his posts; some odd stuff in reads but we always anti-mindmeld; I could change my mind later but executing them D1 would be completely absurd

OK
CM: not a ton to go on, but I haven't seen her usual scumtells and I don't think scum!CM would be this forward with role information; however, increasingly unhappy about lack of nonmechanical posting
Hyper: was absent for a while but never pretended not to be; now more active; no strong impression of content otherwise
TricMagic: has barely posted, I still can't read Tric very well
EuchreJack: play reminds me unpleasantly of CYOS2 but I felt a bit better about him once he gave reads; would like to see more
juicebox: absent throughout most of the day but was literally offline

Hmmmm
NQT: mechanics focus, acting like a spectator

Scum Lean
VermillionSkies: not seeking to engage with anyone; parked vote on lurker despite being borderline lurker themself; skimming previous games, refusal to question people matches scum activity pattern and goes against town activity pattern; they did at least vote FoU with a question but only after I called them out
Imp: posting a lot but barely engaged with other people's posts at first, which is out of character for her; absolute anti-mindmeld; scumreading active players and townreading lurkers feels like MVM4 all over again
FallacyofUrist: has essentially only posted about RVS and mechanics; basically vanished when things got serious; Imp is emitting more scum signals but FoU is emitting absolutely zero town ones

So.  I'm no longer stressed about 'people who I think may be mafia' taking the sheriff's office.  It might even lower my sus, because I suspect that it's better for maf for the auction to fail, and even more tempting for maf to have their vote to use in this tiny pool of remaining votes.  And potentially to stay out of the sway of what Town CrystalizedMire (if someone is maf, they know if CrystalizedMire is town; if she is... that may look extra icky to maf) may be able to do to the people who take auction items.

We're all just responsible for how we use known abilities, and all else we do.  I can be cool with that.  And I really freaking like you, NJW.  Please be town playing like this - this game or future games.  I likes how you feel!


Tric.

On the final Sheriff's Office, I'm of the opinion either Hyper or Fal should take it from reading things. It's a personal action so if it messes with your night plans no reason to. One reason I could say is that a Passive works out much better for me, but I was more thinking SHINIES when I saw the list and saw that one was the most obscuring. No one ever reads me based on mechanics so being miller for a day works out fine.

Rather obviously I have a way to render that mute eventually. Eventually, or I end up dead.

Supposedly, as far as we all know.  The stuff we gain from the auction locks at the start of the next day.

Nobody has claimed they can change that, that I've seen.  I've claimed I can't at this time do that kinda thing for myself or others.

You may want to be careful to read the ability and decide if you are intentionally revealing that it won't go locked for you, or if you want to admit you misread an ability.  Would be believable - you were misreading stuff when you were known town and known maf.  I know you're not more careful about that when you're maf, you freaking gave me a copy of your gym last game when you didn't even have to and might have benefitted more by not doing so, I think you misread.  But I also know you might misread as town, so I'm cool with you.

But read the ability and ask the mod questions about it, and think about if you want to claim that it won't lock for you.

Also the active sheriff's office is free.  Locks the next day but free when not locked.  So if someone claims that messes with their night plans to use it... that is incredibly revealing about them.

Also, Tric.  Thank god and you that you're posting.  I think you're probably town and even without a D1 vote you're a D1 voice and thank you so much for using it.

Haven't really been keeping up with the thread cause been busy with other stuff but eh.

That is a very oddly balanced vote count. What do you think the chances are of catching scum today and why?

We may end up stuck with a D1 no elim, since elim requires hammer and hammer will require 3 votes if someone kindly takes the sheriff office.

If we have many maf that didn't take an auction item, they can coordinate a vote but that might look interesting to the rest of us unless we see a maf flip.

Otherwise... we have our 6 remaining voters, hopefully one takes the Sheriff... then the remaining 5 manage a hammer or not.

The game's kinda designed to go long, or be balanced even if it does go long... I think?  Slightly unsure about that.  Only slightly.  I do prefer an elim today but I don't want a townie elimed so I'm really torn there and more open to a non-elim than I had been earlier in the day.

I'm not going to take Sheriff's Office at the behest of someone I think is scum. If other people ask I'll think about it.

Buying Dormitory would be an unusual move for scum, though it does let you not have a voting record come hammer. I don't really know what to make of it but it doesn't make you scummier in my eyes.

I put Hyper and juicebox in OK instead of null because they posted content between my calling them lurkers and my posting the readlist. That's a hell of a thing to overlook when you're going back through my posts. Also, hardlurking, while bad, is less suspicious to me than the softlurking VS and FoU are and were doing, the way you're playing, and even the way NQT is playing. In any event, I haven't gone back and checked but I feel like Hyper has posted more actual content than either of them at this point.

He likes them now.  Weird.  Weird.

Dang.  I gotta vote my scumbuddy?  Is this really what I see?

Juicebox is most likely town but if they aren't going to post I will accept the cleared slot and the chance I'm wrong over No Lynch. juicebox

Interesting.

You have 1 minute to lynch me people

Early D2.  No discussion about Hyper or Juice.

This oddity:

Will you say how many actions you performed last night, then?

Yes, I performed three actions. Two targeted Imp, one targeted Hyper/ Salvatore Monday.

Then something funny happened, because I tracked you (via a Family Genre action) to Imp and juicebox. I was holding this back until you claimed because I thought it was mildly odd you had only targeted two players.

EP and me jousting.  EP points out he's better than half the players in the game, including both known maf.  Not really discussing anyone else though.

... Wait a sec.  Juice is town by PoE on D3?  Come on.

Imp: Could you make a case for VS being town based primarily on the content/tone/etc. of their posts, rather than your historical skill at reading them?

Sure.

My eval: he's honestly, earnestly, and sincerely moving towards a town win, flavored by his role and other info he has, in his own playing style.  I don't see/feel a single thing that doesn't fit within that.

That's perfectly generic, and therefore perfectly unconvincing. Anyone could try to claim this about anyone at any time.

You're hilarious.

Here's you to my view:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOzab20y1GI

Your case on why NJW is townie is worse; your case for why Juice is town (and wow you must think that player is down.  You could have ensured he was elim - wasn't just FoU who said 'nah, Juice can live') is even worse than your NJW town-case.

Despite my vote, I'm not ready for the day to end.  Nor do I particularly want anything from it except the flip it likely leads to.

NJW, it's not over, if you're town just play to your wincon and hopefully most of us will see/feel/get it and you'll be fine.

Right now I'd entirely accept an EP elim or a juice elim; juice is purely carry-over from D1.

But I do want more talking and stuff.  But clearly it's time, so I oblige.

Bleep.

EP.

In case you're town.  I think we all get it, you think I'm as scum as the day is long (dang we got long days this game, which in general I like).

I think you've put more energy in your day game into pushing me as scum than everything you've done besides that.

I recommend you put some energy into other stuff.  Because if you're town, I can totally tolerate you.  But it would be awesome if your day game was useful.

I haven't presented a case for NJW being town, but I haven't been asked for that case, and I haven't delivered paragraphs of exposition on how town I think he is. I just put him at the top of my readlist. You've spent a lot of time declaring VS's towniness, and I've asked for an evidence-based case on him being town twice now, I think, so it's weird to me that you haven't presented one. That's the difference.

Juicebox I explicitly said was town by POE, not because I got a strong town impression from him, and in my readslist I mention that his lurking D1 was mitigated by the fact that he was offline for most of that period—the exact kind of concrete detail I've been asking for.

I've tunneled you more than I'd like, even under the circumstances, but I've still pushed other players more than, say, Hyper, VermillionSkies, FallacyofUrist, EuchreJack, CrystallizedMire, or juicebox have. And that's more than half the players in the game, so saying my day game isn't useful is a little irksome.

PPE: well alright then

Answers Juice here:

Was the second action you performed a Free Action? And would you like to share who you targeted?

I have the target down to one of four people, but I'd like to hear from you.

No. It was a Personal Action, and I targeted NQT.

Hello Everyone, I'm going to try to be more active today. I can confirm that I was unable to perform any actions tonight. If I could have I was going to track Elephant Parade.

@Elephant Parade Why track Jack instead of someone you were suspicious of, like me or Imp?

CM targeting themselves is also a bit suspicious to me, with that plus their focus on the auction, it really seems like they're playing for themselves instead of playing to help town.

CM are you more or less suspicious of anyone now that everyone's claimed their night results?

I wasn't confident in my ability to read EJ based on his day game, him having an inspect made him more important to verify, him having a third action for the night meant a track would give extra information, and I wanted to confirm that his inspect wasn't redirected.

@Imp
 I'm not as suspicious of Elephant Parade as I was D1, I think they've been doing a reasonable job of trying to decipher what happened N1, and pushing cases.

That's interesting because in my own mind I've been much more passive today. Could you explain in greater detail?

With Imp greenchecked I am considerably more willing to lynch juice. I should probably try to get more of an impression of them.

Ugly.  Was hard but we did it.

Imp it's going to be really hard to round up 3 votes for juice in 15 minutes what are you doing

Tric: I'm never too sure about Tric, their behavior is so erratic that I'm never sure if I'm reading them correctly. Maybe I'll get a feel for them eventually but at the moment I don't know

Has anything changed your opinion on them lately?

This is messy if the team is EP-Sal/Hyper/Juice.  An elim of NJW messes up Sal.

Last night I stopped Verm and Juicebox targeting TricMagic.

NJW2000 is scum.

They were clear to identify that they acted upon Verm, who is now dead.  And if they indeed targeted Juicebox, they would have been roleblocked like Tric.
NJW2000 killed Verm.

I can buy this, but couldn't they have ended up at VS's location rather than Juicebox's?

Unvote, I'm not quite convinced but it's plausible that you just haven't been paying attention. It's really annoying that like 5/11 players lurked through D1 and three of them proceeded to also lurk through D2.

For the record, I haven't posted a readlist of my own in a while since it's mostly just a bunch of question marks (this is not good!). After a questionable D2 showing NJW is also a question mark but I can buy that he's just fed up with the thread.

juicebox: Post your reads.

[Elephant Parade]

I would prefer something more specific to respond to than 'discuss these 40 quotes' but OK. I'm not going line-by-line because that would take a million years; let me know if there's anything in particular you want a response on.

Re: townreading/mehreading flipped scum and then getting on their wagons: two of my scumreads flipping town and the third being greenchecked forced me to reevaluate my reads. Most obviously this sunk my rating of juicebox, who I had as not scum mostly by PoE.

I don't see how my plan was scumsided. What was scumsided was the scramble that actually happened, which ended in No Lynch. My plan, had it worked, would have been better than the scramble we got.

I really don't know how you can read me snipping out Hyper as anything other than a typo. How could I do that intentionally and not expect to be caught? Why would I do that intentionally as any alignment? How would it have fit the rhetorical purpose I was trying to accomplish with that post?

I notice that, in your summary of interactions between me and juice, you left out my big post where I explain why I think juice is scum:

Tric: If you want NJW lynched enough to thunderdome him, why haven't you been pushing him today, outside of a single post early on?


We're getting close to the deadline so I'll put my cards on the table: some of juice's reads have progressed in a way that makes no sense to me.

Okay, so reads.

Let's do the easiest first.

I'm reading Imp as town here. They're playing well within their town meta in my opinion. They are contributing quite a lot to the discussion and they have also been pretty forthcoming with information

I also think that NJW is town as well. I like what they've been posting and their reads list appears to be well thought out.

Hyper, on the other hand is a scumlean for me. Being inactive for a good portion of the day and then voting someone else who is inactive when prodded is not a good look.

Elephant Parade I'm also scumleaning as well. I don't like that they're tunneling Imp, who is my main town read, and I also don't like how they have been pushing people to participate in the auction but haven't really committed to it themselves. It definitely could be a ploy to get town to use up their votes and get more voting power for the scumteam

Vermillion is another slight townlean, while they're posts haven't been amazing, their laser focus on getting hospital and willingness to share information do seem township to me

EuchreJack is a slight townlean for me. They have some decent posts, they seem to be starting to form some reads .

CM, is null for me while their focus on the auction to the detriment of scumhunting is a bit suspicious, I don't thinknthat's really enough to scumread them for.

Fallacy is also null, they have been unusually quiet, and they're not up to their usual shenanigans, but I think I need to see a bit more from them before I townread them.

Tric is a hard one for me. While their play to take Darkroom is within their town meta, I have a gut feeling that this may be scumTric using their town meta as a smokescreen. Only a slight scumlean for now, but I definitely have my eyes on them

And finally NQT. They're always a hard one for me to read. I think in this case they're a slight townlean. They've also been focused on the auction, but unlike Elephant Parade, they've actually been willing to use their vote in the auction which makes me trust them more

My Reads are as follows:

Town:
NJW: I have no idea what Imp sees here. NJW is my strongest townread at this point. They've constantly been pushing cases and trying to solve the game

Elephant Parade: They've calmed down a bit since D1. They weren't been tunneling on Imp like D1 but instead entertained a couple of different cases D2

Not Sure:

Tric: I'm never too sure about Tric, their behavior is so erratic that I'm never sure if I'm reading them correctly. Maybe I'll get a feel for them eventually but at the moment I don't know

Salvatore Monday: Hasn't posted much. A decent observation here or there but not enough for me to townread them

Imp: Because of my Jack read below, I don't know if I can trust the town inspect on Imp anymore. Imp hasn't done anything outright scummy yet though, so I'm nullreading them for now.

Scum:
Jack: I'm starting to lean scum on Jack now. I definitely wasn't blocked last night. Also they initially said that they targeted Salvatore Monday N1, when they had actually targeted me. And while they did explain it away as mistyping I think they may be lying about their actions in an attempt to confuse us.

CM: They've done nothing to change my initial read on them. They've barely been more active than me and hasn't stated any suspicions on anyone who isn't me.

@NQT I wouldn't trade resources with them. I don't trust them enough to give them any resources.

@Imp I wanted to gather information on CM since I thought that they were suspicious

Why has Tric gone from a slight scumlean to an I-can't-read-this-player null? Why has Imp been reduced to unsure due to inspect doubts when she was a townread before the inspect? Nothing has happened to change juice's initial scumread on CM but his initial read of her read was null, not scum! (He did scumread her D2, however.)

I'm slightly puzzled to have gone from strongest scumread to second-strongest townread when I spent D2 pushing for the lynch of someone who flipped town, but the rationale provided makes sense. I don't really understand how Salvatore is a "meh, need more info" when Hyper, the player they replaced, was a scumlean. NJW and EJ are perfectly sensible.

The mitigating factor here is that eight days is kind of a long time. Still, I think these are just words on a page, not actual thoughts from someone who doesn't know everyone's alignment.

[Imp]

I have 5 posts left.

I'm deeply confused.
We have a little less than 1.5 hours left.

My strongest townread is CrystalizedMire.

I can see EP being set up to be deepmaf here.

Juice busses back.  Sal goes almost willingly to death - why?  Sal watching in mafchat - why?  EP doesn't preferentially go for the maf, more than others.  But takes them when it's time/needed.  When further protection would stand out.

His hard drives at mostly on me.  And so fishingly.  Oh he wants to know the heck I'm doing.  Even if I'm self targeting.  While Sal's alive and just gotta know what the next target is.  If only we got that elim off Sal.

About my ending of the quotes.  Posts have a cap of 40k characters.  There's literally too much and not enough time left.

Interested in a full claim, EP?

You claimed weird stuff.

In fact.  There's not loads of time left and much to comb through.

What's your action claims for each night?

And what's going on here?

Actually, there is one thing I don't like about NJW: that I was prevented from targeting him last night, having claimed an investigative ability. Except that I'd specified that I had a Watch, which scum!NJW would want to be in the targeting pool for. Unless he thought I had additional investigative abilities? I'm disinclined to give this much weight.

NQT: Were you informed that you were unable to target CM and I last night?

NJW2000: Do you think CM would take Smithy as town?

I thought I might be killed, in which case I wanted to share my start-of-night info, and there were no useful abilities left (there haven't been any since N2).

The wording of the message.  FROM YOU?  REWRITTEN BY MATER?

WHAT IS THIS?

While this is going on, you hear Elephant Parade mumbling to himself.
*crunch* Mm, these are some tasty chips. Anyway, I learned at the end of the day that I wouldn't be able to use Watch tonight, so that's annoying. (Or target NJW, but that isn't relevant.) Also, Pretzels are still available for some reason -- if EJ used them (even if he was roleblocked) they should be gone, barring failure due specifically to another Family Genre player attempting to use them the same night. Unless Mafia have a cheat that let them restock snacks? I could see them doing that to frame EJ (or just to get Pretzels back, theoretically, but nobody has claimed a permanent alignment cop ability so I doubt it). If I die, all I did tonight was (a) this (b) use my request-task ability on NQT again

Potato Chips (Active, 1-shot, Shared)
How do I know you ate all the chips? I heard you opening the bag from the basement![/sub]
Target yourself and provide me with a message. I will post that message at the end of the night phase, with your target as the source.

That is some WEIRD WRITING FROM EP WHAT THE WHAT THE WHAT WHAT WHAT.

[Crystalizedmire]

Magmamater:what is the vote count now?

[Imp]

Magmamater:what is the vote count now?

Crystal.  Tell me more about WHY you have sus of EP.  What are you seeing.

I'm now starting to wonder if EP's done a lot of the right kinda lies for maf.  Not towny lies.

Especially around ice cream and the nature of his weird unique block stuff.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It doesn't determine my action, it's just the condition I have to meet in order to get the thing. (Actually, rereading my role PM, I think I was mistaken—I don't think I have to successfully perform the Family action, just submit it, but that doesn't matter when the action in question is no longer available.) And that doesn't make any sense to me because you had an option right there that would've been potentially helpful regardless of my other night action options, as I alluded to above.

Elephant Parade, if, after you've had a good think you're genuinely serious about hammering me, let me know and I'll full claim. That might let you all see that my role is the best damn thing going for this town.

Also, as a side point, I've just realised that we should expect Imp to be shooting someone tonight, assuming a similar timeline to Juicebox and my own power growth:

you possess a locked one-shot killing ability. It is unlocked when the specified condition is met. When it unlocks, upgrade all of your abilities.

If she's been seeing herself as an angel of death, self-targeting to set up the conditions every night, then that might go some way to explaining her attitude this game.

If she does have a kill, great! One trouble is, she won't know whether NJW is good or evil until the end of the night. We could very well see the game end prematurely even if Crystal isn't scum with a double-kill.

No I don't, unfortunately. I wasn't able to use Ice Cream N3 -- it was already gone, and even if it wasn't, I had ceded it to Tric because I figured there was no convincing him to let me use it instead.

I see. I misunderstood how the task worked. I thought you had gained x3 shots of it.

Noted. I really don't expect to change course, but I'm still thinking (and I don't think discussion has quite petered out yet, which is when I generally become interested in hammering); I'll probably get back to you later today. I want to present my case on that CM scumtell even if it's unlikely to change anyone's mind (including mine).

I had to successfully use Ice Cream that night to get it as a 3-shot.

If you were to do a certain thing today, even you flipping town and Imp shooting wrong wouldn't necessarily be a town loss tomorrow. I trust I don't have to say what it is.

Yet you heard Tric say would use it.  And didn't negotiate with NQT to do something that wouldn't supposedly you think waste your power up.  Why not.

No I don't, unfortunately. I wasn't able to use Ice Cream N3 -- it was already gone, and even if it wasn't, I had ceded it to Tric because I figured there was no convincing him to let me use it instead.

Town cares who they vote.  A lot.  Especially near end of game.

@NJW: I still disagree -- I think that town!CM usually provides some kind of context or opinion or other text instead of just a raw statement-question. I agree that she's prone to sheeping as town; it's this specific thing that's a red flag to me. I'm not going to do a deep dive right now because I'm PFP and lazy and no longer inclined to lynch her over NQT anyway; maybe later today.

I know I voted for NJW this morning, but out of everyone alive and uncleared, NQT has been the most consistently shady, so that's the sensible place to put my vote. I'm obviously not going to hammer right now, though.

N1:  Gave object to NQT.  Tracked EJ to Imp and Juicebox.

'To the person who got the thing: Please take the option that lets me gain the predetermined unlimited-shot ability, not the 3-shot version of one of several abilities (all of them are IMO worse than the unlimited-shot ability) or the extra vote. Also, please make your choice late enough in the day that the condition won't turn out to be impossible to meet.'

Means NQT picks who EP acts on, if that's all true.  With Sal to help EP watch and listen to NQT through duelist

N2:  Object back to NQT. 

and did a fairly meaningless thing that should come out shortly. I didn't roleblock Tric.

I am apparently in Oceania.

NQT: Pick 'Ice Cream' and, assuming no interference, I can have a 3-shot version of a pretty good ability. I obviously can't use it at the same time as the other thing, though.  Used Fruit on Monday

N2:  I used an investigative personal ability, whose results I'd like to claim after everyone else claims if that's OK. I did not use a genre ability.  Tracked Imp to self.

OK fine. I watched Imp last night expecting her to eat the mafiakill (she's greenchecked and hard to place on a team with juice, and she had a bit of info related to the EJ mess) and the result I received was that she had been visited only by me (obviously) and herself. Normally this would be a fairly boring result aside from letting me catch out someone fakeclaiming an action on her, but then I learned she was added to the duelist genre last night, presumably by scum. I know I wasn't the one to add her, and I know nobody else targeted her unless it was with a silent action or something, and I know she targeted herself. So either she added herself to the genre is as scum, or the mafia's apparent duelist-ify cheat is silent/nontargeting (there's no way of knowing if this is the case but my gut finds it eminently plausible) and she acted on herself in some other way.

I wanted to nail her down on whether she self-targeted before revealing any of this, for obvious reasons, and I wanted to do it with the vaguest question possible because anything else would hint that I had tracked her to herself, robbing me of the opportunity to catch a possible scum!Imp in a lie. Mentioning Tric in my penultimate question was a red herring to make it marginally less obvious what I was doing.

I don't think Imp is necessarily the best lynch today, or possibly ever, but I'm leaving my vote there for a bit.

So if he had to target for the genre add, it's there and covered too.

It sure is interesting if maf are ignoring him and everyone thinks he's really highly townread.

A lot of things throughout the game have made me iffy on NQT but I don't know why scum would have gone to so much effort to explain the claim situation to Imp. That was so incredibly frustrating that I find it hard to imagine someone bothering to do it unless it was sincere. Also, scum!NQT likely nightkills me N2 or N3 because he's low on my readlist and he knows I have Watch, an infamously strong investigative action. (Scum!NQT also could've prevented me from getting Watch by preventing me from acting on Salvatore N2, presuming scum had access to some kind of roleblock/redirection/etc. (at the very least they had Ice Cream), but that might've been a bit obvious.)

I don't see a Disabled tag in the OP so I assume disabled actions are Locked?

Magma Mater: What happens when a Shared action is made Locked for a player? Is it Locked for everyone else who shares the action as well?

I got 4 posts left.

[Elephant Parade]

Sure, I'll fullclaim. I'm not holding back anything particularly helpful, so there's not much reason not to.

I'm a Family game. I started the game with one ability, Specialist. It's an active ability that has Magma PM the target at the start of the following day, giving them their choice of three options which they must pick between by the end of the day:
1) They select a player. If I'm voting for that player at the end of the day, I gain an additional vote for the rest of the game.
2) They select a Family ability. If I select that ability that night (initially I thought I had to successfully use it but I think I just have to make a valid (i.e. still extant) selection), I gain a three-shot copy of it as a Personal ability.
3) They select a player. If I target that player that night, I permanently gain a generic Watch as a Personal ability.

Note that the PM does not name me as the beneficiary of the choice. If they fail to make a choice by the end of the day, they are roleblocked that night. The phrasing is slightly ambiguous, but the ability doesn't force me to respect the selection—I just have to in order to get the reward. The abilities I get from Specialist aren't Free, so I can't use them and Specialist in the same night.

NQT should be able to verify everything I said about Specialist, barring some of the fiddly stuff.

I believe I've already claimed all my actions, but here's a refresher:
N1: I use Specialist on NQT. I'm curious how he'll react, and at the time I'm less concerned about not letting scum in on there potentially being a Watch in the game. (I'm not concerned about scum picking a non-Watch option on purpose because, done by a high-skill player, that would essentially be a scumclaim -- if they think I'm town, they want to give me Watch over the extra vote or the mystery ability I say is meh, and if they think I'm scum, they'll want to give me a pro-town investigative ability over an extra vote or a mystery ability. Ergo, if they do anything other than give me Watch, they'll come across as shady, and they know that.) I use Cookies (Track) on EJ to make sure he's legit and catch any potential redirects.
Evening 2 (E2): I am informed that my target is Salvatore Monday, and that all snacks except Cookies (Track), Marshmallows (Protect), and Jalepeno Poppers (Roleblock) are available.
N2: I target NQT with Specialist, since he probably won't be nightkilled, he picked the correct option last time, and I've realized that Watch is an ability scum probably shouldn't know about (and if I target the same player again, there's no additional chance of informing scum). I target Salvatore with Fruit (Fruitvendor) because the only other useful actions are Ice Cream (Jailkeep) and Punch (Bus-Self-With-Target), neither of which seem worth using up here (and EJ has already said he's using Punch).
Morning 3: I am informed that I have received the Watch ability, implying I successfully targeted Salvatore. I am also informed that I am in Oceania.
E3: I am informed that I have been asked to use Ice Cream. Bugles (Challenge), Fruit, Punch, and, against expectations, Ice Cream have been used up, leaving Pretzels (Invert Faction Reveal Results) and Potato Chips (Post Message At Start of Day).
N3: I don't use a family action because nothing helpful is left. I watch Imp, expecting her to eat a nightkill after Salvatore's flip confirms that she and EJ can't both be scum and therefore that EJ's inspect wasn't a ruse. I am informed that she was visited by me and herself.
E4: I am informed that I can't use Watch tonight. I am informed that I can't target NJW tonight. Against expectations, no new family abilities have been used up -- EJ claimed using Pretzels and that should have done it even if he was roleblocked, barring another player attempting to use Pretzels N3.
N4: I use Potato Chips to claim my evening info and actions in case I die overnight, being a generally townread player who has claimed a strong investigative ability. (The message was written entirely by me—the goofy start was to confirm that I was using Potato Chips, and because I thought it was funny.) I use Specialist, targeting NQT for the same reasons as last time, and frankly out of inertia.


I can buy that you left it out due to the character limit, though it was still an egregious thing to leave out.

I wanted to know what you were doing, or at least whether you would fess up to targeting yourself, because you were the recipient of an apparent scum action and the only people who targeted you were me and you. Be serious.

I'm not in duelistchat so I can't really comment on that stuff.

You barely touching my replies after you explicitly asked me to discuss makes me feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. The double greencheck means you're town, though.

[Magma Mater]

Magmamater:what is the vote count now?

NQT and NJW each have one vote.

[Crystalizedmire]

Magmamater:what is the vote count now?

Crystal.  Tell me more about WHY you have sus of EP.  What are you seeing.

I'm now starting to wonder if EP's done a lot of the right kinda lies for maf.  Not towny lies.

Especially around ice cream and the nature of his weird unique block stuff.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It doesn't determine my action, it's just the condition I have to meet in order to get the thing. (Actually, rereading my role PM, I think I was mistaken—I don't think I have to successfully perform the Family action, just submit it, but that doesn't matter when the action in question is no longer available.) And that doesn't make any sense to me because you had an option right there that would've been potentially helpful regardless of my other night action options, as I alluded to above.

Elephant Parade, if, after you've had a good think you're genuinely serious about hammering me, let me know and I'll full claim. That might let you all see that my role is the best damn thing going for this town.

Also, as a side point, I've just realised that we should expect Imp to be shooting someone tonight, assuming a similar timeline to Juicebox and my own power growth:

you possess a locked one-shot killing ability. It is unlocked when the specified condition is met. When it unlocks, upgrade all of your abilities.

If she's been seeing herself as an angel of death, self-targeting to set up the conditions every night, then that might go some way to explaining her attitude this game.

If she does have a kill, great! One trouble is, she won't know whether NJW is good or evil until the end of the night. We could very well see the game end prematurely even if Crystal isn't scum with a double-kill.

No I don't, unfortunately. I wasn't able to use Ice Cream N3 -- it was already gone, and even if it wasn't, I had ceded it to Tric because I figured there was no convincing him to let me use it instead.

I see. I misunderstood how the task worked. I thought you had gained x3 shots of it.

Noted. I really don't expect to change course, but I'm still thinking (and I don't think discussion has quite petered out yet, which is when I generally become interested in hammering); I'll probably get back to you later today. I want to present my case on that CM scumtell even if it's unlikely to change anyone's mind (including mine).

I had to successfully use Ice Cream that night to get it as a 3-shot.

If you were to do a certain thing today, even you flipping town and Imp shooting wrong wouldn't necessarily be a town loss tomorrow. I trust I don't have to say what it is.

Yet you heard Tric say would use it.  And didn't negotiate with NQT to do something that wouldn't supposedly you think waste your power up.  Why not.

No I don't, unfortunately. I wasn't able to use Ice Cream N3 -- it was already gone, and even if it wasn't, I had ceded it to Tric because I figured there was no convincing him to let me use it instead.

Town cares who they vote.  A lot.  Especially near end of game.

@NJW: I still disagree -- I think that town!CM usually provides some kind of context or opinion or other text instead of just a raw statement-question. I agree that she's prone to sheeping as town; it's this specific thing that's a red flag to me. I'm not going to do a deep dive right now because I'm PFP and lazy and no longer inclined to lynch her over NQT anyway; maybe later today.

I know I voted for NJW this morning, but out of everyone alive and uncleared, NQT has been the most consistently shady, so that's the sensible place to put my vote. I'm obviously not going to hammer right now, though.

N1:  Gave object to NQT.  Tracked EJ to Imp and Juicebox.

'To the person who got the thing: Please take the option that lets me gain the predetermined unlimited-shot ability, not the 3-shot version of one of several abilities (all of them are IMO worse than the unlimited-shot ability) or the extra vote. Also, please make your choice late enough in the day that the condition won't turn out to be impossible to meet.'

Means NQT picks who EP acts on, if that's all true.  With Sal to help EP watch and listen to NQT through duelist

N2:  Object back to NQT. 

and did a fairly meaningless thing that should come out shortly. I didn't roleblock Tric.

I am apparently in Oceania.

NQT: Pick 'Ice Cream' and, assuming no interference, I can have a 3-shot version of a pretty good ability. I obviously can't use it at the same time as the other thing, though.  Used Fruit on Monday

N2:  I used an investigative personal ability, whose results I'd like to claim after everyone else claims if that's OK. I did not use a genre ability.  Tracked Imp to self.

OK fine. I watched Imp last night expecting her to eat the mafiakill (she's greenchecked and hard to place on a team with juice, and she had a bit of info related to the EJ mess) and the result I received was that she had been visited only by me (obviously) and herself. Normally this would be a fairly boring result aside from letting me catch out someone fakeclaiming an action on her, but then I learned she was added to the duelist genre last night, presumably by scum. I know I wasn't the one to add her, and I know nobody else targeted her unless it was with a silent action or something, and I know she targeted herself. So either she added herself to the genre is as scum, or the mafia's apparent duelist-ify cheat is silent/nontargeting (there's no way of knowing if this is the case but my gut finds it eminently plausible) and she acted on herself in some other way.

I wanted to nail her down on whether she self-targeted before revealing any of this, for obvious reasons, and I wanted to do it with the vaguest question possible because anything else would hint that I had tracked her to herself, robbing me of the opportunity to catch a possible scum!Imp in a lie. Mentioning Tric in my penultimate question was a red herring to make it marginally less obvious what I was doing.

I don't think Imp is necessarily the best lynch today, or possibly ever, but I'm leaving my vote there for a bit.

So if he had to target for the genre add, it's there and covered too.

It sure is interesting if maf are ignoring him and everyone thinks he's really highly townread.

A lot of things throughout the game have made me iffy on NQT but I don't know why scum would have gone to so much effort to explain the claim situation to Imp. That was so incredibly frustrating that I find it hard to imagine someone bothering to do it unless it was sincere. Also, scum!NQT likely nightkills me N2 or N3 because he's low on my readlist and he knows I have Watch, an infamously strong investigative action. (Scum!NQT also could've prevented me from getting Watch by preventing me from acting on Salvatore N2, presuming scum had access to some kind of roleblock/redirection/etc. (at the very least they had Ice Cream), but that might've been a bit obvious.)

I don't see a Disabled tag in the OP so I assume disabled actions are Locked?

Magma Mater: What happens when a Shared action is made Locked for a player? Is it Locked for everyone else who shares the action as well?

I got 4 posts left.

I felt that two scum starting in duelist chat was weird.

[Imp]

3 posts left.  I am one confused Imp.  Still town and I will do anything for town.  Whatever that means.

unvote  EP.

[Elephant Parade]

I think you really ought to be a little more interested in what I have to say than that.

I think we just elim NQT here and win. I don't think it's CM, and I'd be genuinely astonished if it's EP or Imp.

If it's not NQT... I honestly don't know. Somewhere between CM and EP. At this point, possibly even EP over CM, because I can read CM and I don't know if I can read EP. I think I'm just trying to think of reasonable scumteams outside of salvatore+juicebox+NQT, and talking nonsense because there aren't any.

Do you see how you contradict yourself here?

[Elephant Parade]

Like you are attacking me in such an insane way, making huge WoTs about how I'm scum and then barely acknowledging my replies, skipping over info for postcount reasons and then posting a BARE VOTE, that I'm seriously considering that, in a horrific coincidence, both checks were wrong (n1 juicebox pretzels + ninja kill?) were wrong and you're scum who wants me, personally, dead for some reason. I still give 90% odds you're town but what are you doing?

[Imp]

I felt that two scum starting in duelist chat was weird.

I need your day game, CM.

I don't know what to do about EP.

Or not.

I can hammer NQT or you can.

We can no elim and see how the remaining town grow.  I presume maf are growing too.

We can try to take EP.  Or NJW.

What does your day game tell you?

I have very few posts left.

And EP.  I do everything I can for town.  Everything.  I literally do not know who is maf here.  Yet.

2 posts left.

[Elephant Parade]

Other stuff:

I find NQT's claim entirely believable but not really exculpatory. I would say he has a less shady nightgame than NJW, whose actions have not yet actually accomplished anything at any point^*, but a shadier nightgame than Crystal, who has also been ineffective but has been extremely open about how her role works in a way that would greatly close off her actions if she were scum.

Note that, skimming, NJW claimed before his targets on both days I checked, so he almost certainly isn't fakeclaiming.

^{*I think you should always side-eye people who experience this even though it sometimes leads you wrong, like how CM's action failed every night in BYOM or how Jim's vote steal failed twice in a row in FBYOR because he targeted the same person as the other vote-stealer and lost the coinflip both times.}

[NJW2000]

I think you really ought to be a little more interested in what I have to say than that.

…

Do you see how you contradict yourself here?

technically not a contradiction. But yes.

Don’t worry, I’m not going to try and hop on Imp’s vote, dramatic as that would be.

I’m just trying to run scenarios where I’m wrong about NQT, so I’m not totally blindsided if he flips town. But at this point in the game I’ve basically started posting nonsense when I do that, because I can’t make the other options plausible.

[Elephant Parade]

Uhhhh we have 4 minutes until deadline lol. My money is still on NQT, who appears to have started laying low right as an alternative wagon got attention (although he could just be busy or done with this shit lol). I would vastly prefer NJW to No Lynch. I would also take CM over No Lynch but I don't think she's a candidate anyway. I have one post left after this