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[Elephant Parade]

I probably don't need to say this but please don't hammer anyone before I log on tomorrow lol

[Imp]

Yeah, sorry that was my error.  I saw you unvote but didn't process it.

I can kind of buy it but it still seems strange to pick Imp over NJW there. Unvote.

notquitethere: Do you have some particular reason to think scum!crystal would be likely to achieve their eurogame criterion at the start of tonight?

NJW almost immediately voted after you unvoted.  I did realize later I misspoke, wasn't sure if I should correct it, and got distracted again (today's been a heck of a busy day for me) and didn't think again about mentioning it.

Though I'll take any info I can get.

I am about to relax and totally focus on reading this game, especially the new stuff I have only skimmed for the last many hours.

I have a weak spot for players who try just right.  I honestly don't know which 1 or 2 of CM, NQT, NJW are maf.

I always try to Xanatos Gambit; that's fun in a game with LOADS of known hidden mech.

My 'weakness' would be let the very likely caught maf go longer and hunt the hidden maf.

Before I read everything.  If NQT is maf, he sure is trying hard.

Like CYOS1, where I was very slow to deep-sus Max, the second maf, and FoU, the third maf we elimed.  I was just hunting their bigger brother that was hiding better.

I am intensely anxious if we elim CM today, but that might be the best call.  I think we get 1 more chance to stop her, if she's the sole problem (or if there's 2 maf and she's the one we don't elim first, making her the sole remaining problem and we got 4 alive total going into next night).  If she's solo maf right now there's no reason to wait.

I'm actually a bit anxious if we elim NQT today.  I can see him as maf trying to protect his better hidden big brother maf, NJW.  He didn't even really go for NJW until I discussed that maybe we elim NJW then CM.  Meaning he could win as last maf.  I'm scared if he's maf he wants NJW alive more than himself, suggesting that NJW may have some special mech to win if he's last maf - seems possible.

Also there's my urge to hunt that more dangerous maf that may not exist.  CYOS1, I was doing that as the rest of town was moving to take FoU.  3 maf.  I totally could believe a 4th.  Game isn't over until it's over to me.

So.  My bias is NJW then see who's alive tomorrow and handle it from there.  Maf, if there's maf left, drop your sword might be the call that gives you more room to move.

But we'll see.  And of course I think maf likely loses on that plan too; it's not my Xanatos Plan if I think I'm gonna lose.  Just there's maybe/maybe not more chances for maf on that rather odd plan that maf might not even consider.

So do I want that?  Not want that?  who knows.  We got a night game coming up.  Unless there's 1 maf left and we nail that one.  OMG that would be nice.

So, I can handle an elim of either NJW or NQT, I think.  Especially if last maf is CM.

Oh well.  Onto reading.

Hang in there, NQT.  No matter your alignment.  I prize and value you.  Always.  Even when my stress and fear shows.

[Imp]

Yeah, sorry that was my error.  I saw you unvote but didn't process it.

I can kind of buy it but it still seems strange to pick Imp over NJW there. Unvote.

notquitethere: Do you have some particular reason to think scum!crystal would be likely to achieve their eurogame criterion at the start of tonight?

Well, that's a lot of hours?

But they are posts 841 and 844

[Imp]

But yeah.  Anxiety is real.  NJW+CM team left alive is flat out too much maf for me if we elim NQT.

[Elephant Parade]

If there are four mafia, then it's been LYLO since we mislynched FoU and VS died overnight (=5v4). Scum could have quickhammered anytime in the last few real-life weeks. There aren't four mafia

[Imp]

I have 10 posts left today.

Finished digging through various stuff and CM posts and whatevers.

I'll save post game to discuss that, but I really don't think CM can be maf.  Also, unvote.  the afteraction discussion for this game's gonna be stellar.  I got questions I don't dare ask until then.

Please don't hammer, of course.  But should something horrible irl prevent me from getting over here in time, that blue's off.  I'm not done sorting out NJW vs NQT.

And I have sus of NJW still.

Let's see.

So.  NJW saw this:

Develop Property (Active)
_{You already own everything. It's time to build some houses!}
Target another player. The location at which they end the night is marked with a House. For the rest of the game, all players who end the night at that location are subject to one of the following penalties, depending on how many Houses are now at that location:

• One House - The Personal Abilities they used this night cannot be used the following night.
• Two Houses - Additionally, they will be blocked this night.
• Three Houses - Additionally, the Personal Abilities they used this night will become Locked.
• Four Houses - Additionally, they will permanently lose the ability to target other players.
• Hotel - Additionally, all of their Personal and General abilities will become Locked.

Demolish (Active)
_{Sometimes, we build a house where we shouldn't. Like in a swamp, or a tree. These things can be corrected.}
Target another player. The location at which they end the night loses one House.

Landlord (Passive)
_{The lord of the land does not pay rent.}
You are not affected by Develop Property.

And said this:

I stopped NQT targeting Crystal or EP.

Thanks to Imp and the duelist chat, I’m already behind on replies, so will be going through that. Looks like EJ probably got to four houses at least?

Also, EP, do you know why you couldn’t target me? There are ways that could have happened but they’re all quite weird to me.

NJW, are you claiming you have lost the ability to target other players?  And the below-4-house penalties too?

If not, why did you ask if EJ got to 4 houses?

Earlier...

EP: I really don’t think Nightkill Analysis is going to help us here. Also, would your investigative ability pick up on factional abilities like the nightkill? Because from Juice’s flip, it looks like the interference would be factional rather than personal or genre.

EJ: I still want to know: who did you think might try to use Pretzels last night?


We seem to have skipped over the fact that EJ is now claiming to have roleblocked Imp N1. I may have missed it, but Imp is still neither confirming nor denying acting successfully N1, right?

…

...I'm tempted to just vote Imp as a liability. I ain't gonna eat the lynch for them.

I try not to use the word “flailing” too much these days, but I really think it applies here.


I’m about 50/50 on whether the Duelist add was a weird mafia power not amenable to mechanical analysis, or something that the EP/Imp situation gives actual insight into. In either scenario, I think EuchreJack is very likely scum.

Honestly, I feel like we're not even playing the same game.
Didn't you fucking read juicebox's flip?!
What we found out is that any Mafia player could have access to the Family abilities. They sure as hell wouldn't claim that.
I was probably most worried about Salvatore Monday and yourself, hence why I targeted you with Pretzels.

So, that's D4.  EJ said he targeted NJW with Pretzels N3.

Disturbingly:

I think the optimum strategy would be to lynch someone in the duelist chat. The fact that NQT seems to think lynching me is a good strategy makes them look like scum.

I'm worried the scum team might be NQT, NJW2000, and Juicebox.  I suspect the remaining town would be unable to counteract that, due to a lack of experience.

We flip Juice that day.  That night, my first night in Duelist chat, NJW warns me, nice and mild.

It reads that way to me; that anything I say might influence the NK.  In duelist I'm very clear that I highly sus NQT and minorly sus NJW.  NQT talks more and... I'm exploring reactions.  I'm concerned I'm sitting with two maf.  But it might be easier for town NQT to innocently push the imp caused duelist join than someone who can't innocently accuse me of it.

Would CM kill an EJ that susses not her?  When there's people who sus her.  Vote control's damn important.

For a second night in a row, I got the result of no messages for you.  So I think I was blocked.

My attempted actions were: Develop Property and Pretzels NJW2000

As you can see, Pretzels flips the alignment inspect result.  As Crystal was going to test Salvatore Monday, I did not want to risk anyone else using Pretzels on Salvatore Monday, so I attempted to target it elsewhere.

It's possible that my abilities are triggering, but I am not getting the results.  But more likely that I was blocked twice in a row.

There should be One House in play.  It disables the personal abilities of anyone located there used tonight for the following night.  So if anyone acted upon juicebox, or where juicebox was at end of Night 1, then whatever they did would be disabled the following night.

My actions Night 1: Use Sheriff's Office and Jalepeno Poppers on Imp; Use Develop Property (Active) on Juicebox.
My actions Night 2: Punch CrystalizedMire; Develop Property Juicebox
My actions Night 3: Develop Property and Pretzels NJW2000

Okay, so EJ N4 is Develop property on CM, and... no idea what he'd do.  He'd see pretzels like EP did.  Use?  Maybe.  I don't think he'd redirect his develop off CM.

While this is going on, you hear Elephant Parade mumbling to himself.
*crunch* Mm, these are some tasty chips. Anyway, I learned at the end of the day that I wouldn't be able to use Watch tonight, so that's annoying. (Or target NJW, but that isn't relevant.) Also, Pretzels are still available for some reason -- if EJ used them (even if he was roleblocked) they should be gone, barring failure due specifically to another Family Genre player attempting to use them the same night. Unless Mafia have a cheat that let them restock snacks? I could see them doing that to frame EJ (or just to get Pretzels back, theoretically, but nobody has claimed a permanent alignment cop ability so I doubt it). If I die, all I did tonight was (a) this (b) use my request-task ability on NQT again

Pretzels are there.

Either maf has family genre.  Or a restock?  Or someone has some weird mech but isn't a maf - this is again not related to my mech.

Maf were killin EJ.  No need to frame.  I think something else happened.  Something cheating.  And I probably don't have the clues to know what until after game.  There's something important/different about pretzels being available N4, after EJ's attempt to use them N3.

The simplest answer is there's another maf with family.  It's a common type of genre?  loads of abilities and maf seem to have many choices.  So they can do other stuff and ignore family except when most wanted/needed.

Making kill EJ even more tempting?  Nah.  EP still has it. Delay makes sense though.  If delays exist.  EJ didn't develop property or punch CM; yet.  When would he?  CM is disabled N3, reports D4.  EJ ...  Sal appears to wonder what happened to the punch of CM in the duelist chat.  It's the only time NJW and Sal talk to each other even obliquely there.

EP, punch is used up?

While sal was alive, anything could be messed with.  Sal using punch same night as EJ, that's why CM not punched?  I don't see why not.  But that's N2.  Maf are messing with CM N2.  Or don't want her punched, but I'm pretty sure she's town.  N2 is the one night CM drops a worker.  On EJ.  Or whatever else happens.  Maf preventing her from being punched maybe.  So they can... what and I don't have the clues.  But there's all the D3 confusion about disabled abilities.  Chances are we ended up with 2 houses somewhere.

N3.  EJ supposed to develop but on NJW now.  And pretzels... and maybe neither happen.  Nobody reports the chaos of a new house being dropped.  Even 1 is disruptive, disables unless someone doesn't use that type of ability.  Out there somewhere 1, 2, or even 3 places with 1 house.  I think.  Most likely 2, maybe a third now.  We can't tell until tonight.

And I can't think anymore tonight.

More deep puzzling after some sleep.

Night all.

[Elephant Parade]

Punch was used up by the start of the night after EJ claimed using it, as expected

[notquitethere]

As EP still wants me dead, and I've already sunk too many hours into this endeavour:

Full Claim

Every night from N0 I can place a disk on a player for free, alternating black or white. They are then marked with that colour. I was blocked one night, but managed every other night, so four players have been marked. When a player dies their mark flips colour. Right now the balance is three white and one black, and I have white to play next.

Every night from N1 I can investigate a player. If I have one white, I learn their genre, 2 white I learn the # of personal abilities, 3 white I track them, 4 white I get to redirect them too.

Number of blacks give me different immunities: 1 black, I can't be fooled, 2 black I can't be redirected, 3 I can't be killed, 4 I can't be blocked.

Right now the players are:

Euchrejack: White (still counts while dead)

Imp: White
Crystal: Nothing
Elephant Parade: White
NJW: Black

Eliminating Elephant Parade (or I suppose Imp) would turn me into an unkillable tracker, assuming we didn't win the game there and then. Eliminating NJW would be allow me to redirect the scum to whomever, assuming I guessed who had it.

[notquitethere]

I would prefer we kill NJW today, I also can strongly see a Crystal world.

Oh, and I claimed at various points already, but here's what I did each night:

N0: Marked Imp White
N1: Marked EJ Black, Learned Fallacy's Genre (which wasn't useful at all)
N2: Marked Elephant Parade White, Learned Crystal's Genre and number of personal abilities
N3: My powers were both disabled and I couldn't do anything else so I did nothing.
N4: Marked NJW Black, EJ died this night and flipped to White, so I learned Imp's Genre, number of personal abilities and tracked her

I see now that fits with Elephant Parade's narrative, in that scum!NQT could have known he'd get a track as he's know he'd be flipping EJ... but take a step back and realise if I were somehow scum with this townie powerset, I would have organised my marks so that they all flipped black (i.e. marking always people white on the night they were killed), and then I could make myself immune to kills and blocks, an arguably more useful powerset for scum than getting a redirect.

I presume this mech wasn't your deep focus and attention.

So... something else was, yes?

My focus from D2 on was on trying to get the elimination right, which I managed to be on the right side of twice. At one stage I tried to work out the location stuff but it was too fiddly and I parked it. I didn't understand EuchreJack's claims at the end of D4 properly when he first made them and I didn't spend the time to work them out that night. Apparently neither did NJW. I've definitely made the mistake in previous games of working out the night game and then still losing because I didn't actually know who was scum.

[Crystalizedmire]

I'm sorry you feel that way Elephant Parade. I'm clearly not cut out to play this stupid game when I'm held to an impossible standard of perfect town play and players like Crystal just get to snooze through.

If you lynch me today and somehow town survives the night, then I would recommend eliminating Crystal over NJW tomorrow.

Sorry for not being good at playing the day game.

After a lot of mulling over, Ive decided that trying to guess the set up would only end up in failure. Scum is either NJW or NQT.

You might if town want to get more involved.

Imagine we win this on day game -alone-.  Them cheating maf are gonna win otherwise.

You gonna help?

Okay, heres the thing: skimming through the posts I dont think either NQT or NJW had any hints of trying to discredit euchrejack.

For how long are all abilities blocked?  Just the one night?  You mean - factional and genre and personal for 1 night. That's totally cool.

It triggers each night the player ends in the Safe Zone.

AHHH I just realised something. EJ's whole plan was a nonstarter.

Global Campaign (Genre)
_{It's time to pull up a map. Where are we, and where are we going? The fog of war is thick, but your keen eyes pierce the veil.}
Each player has a location.When a player uses a non-free Personal Ability to visit another player, they travel to where that player was at the start of the night. At the end of each night, including Night 0, you learn each player's location. On Night 0, send me a ranked list of every player in the game, along with your preferred location for them. I will compile the preferences of each player with this ability to determine the starting location of each player. Players closer to the top of your ranked list are more likely to be given your preferred location. The locations are North America, South America, Africa, Eurasia, and Oceania.

You only travel to a location if you use a personal ability on the player. Scum can still kill people in the so-called safe zone, because killing them is a factional ability and doesn't trigger location movement. EJ tried to confirm it blocked scum powers, and it definitely does, if mafia are already in the zone. Mafia kills won't be prevented this way.

... we'd be in a moderately better position if I chose not go along with safe zone plan.
Anyways, I think NQT because reads like town with a realization om something.

I'm not sure I understand this sentence. Could you rephrase?

That post by NQT reads genuinely town.

[Imp]

omg you picked ...

Okay.  Now why each target choice?

I'm more interested in the ones not-Imp but sure, discuss me too.

I'm also more interested in why you somehow never marked a maf that has since flipped.  Why didn't you mark Crystal yet.

[NJW2000]

Re: Houses Confusion (Questions from Imp and NQT)

Yeah, I don't really know why I said that EJ would have got to 4 houses, looking back on it. I think I'd just gone through EJ's flip, and had house numbers a bit mixed up in my head. Over N4, I assumed EJ had one house on CM and needed to build another. As I said, I was already behind on replies at that point, because Imp was asking questions in the Duelist chat through the night - I'm not going to be perfectly up to speed with all the mechanics, all of the time.

I haven't had any abilities locked or lost the ability to target other players. I believe EJ managed to get to 2 houses but almost definitely no further.

NQT did seem seize on the fact I was slightly confused about a number to push a mechanical discussion. But I guess he's walked back from that a little.

7. If I had a kill and tried to kill Crystal last night, I would have entered the safe zone at the start of the night, then my kill would have been blocked.
8. Crystal was unkillable last night and is still unkillable this night.

No. EJ probably got to two houses last night, which would not make CM unkillable until the next night.

EJ's posts did nothing to suggest his Develop property stopped people acting on his target on this same night he built a second house. Neither does his flip - as far as I can tell, it clearly doesn't work that way. It would be weird if his action was faster than everyone else's. Especially if movements resolve before actions do.

You're right about the plan not working 100%, although it's possible EJ just wanted to get as many people as possible to the "safe zone" and block scum who used personal abilities. Possibly there was some amount of bluffing involved. Though it's also possible he just didn't think it through correctly. I took quite a bit on trust by factoring his plan into my decision-making at all.


We have about four hours left in the day.

I think we just elim NQT here and win. I don't think it's CM, and I'd be genuinely astonished if it's EP or Imp.

If it's not NQT... I honestly don't know. Somewhere between CM and EP. At this point, possibly even EP over CM, because I can read CM and I don't know if I can read EP. I think I'm just trying to think of reasonable scumteams outside of salvatore+juicebox+NQT, and talking nonsense because there aren't any.

[Imp]

Since I'm now entertaining the what-if of EP.

And I'm 100% here and awake and present.  So just because I want more time and can.  NQT

CM. Maybe check EP if you're willing and able.

Whomever flips inside duelist, the other duelists should learn each other's alignment.  We have this weird pretzels thing.

I'm pretty comfortable with EP.  Too comfortable who the flip knows.  It just looks like believable town play to me.

And to everyone.  Nobody ever flips EP?

What do maf have to say.  Sal in duelist lists townreads as his second post.  First is 'this is mason chat to me' and 'I bet we gotta lose a townie before we conf town this' - of course I paraphrase.  Second is 'these are my townreads' which includes the duelist members and EP and Tric.  Tric dies that night.

NJW never mentions Elephant; NQT does.  No sus of.  EP is literally the last person NQT suspects - this is from duelist and before the inspect on me.

It's got greens for my duelist partners because I decided to take a look at that.

I do note EP is reliably 3rd or 4th vote on each wagon, except for the D1 wagon.

They really risked Juice D1 if EP is maf.

[Elephant Parade]

EJ was a bit confused, but by the end of the day he seemed to think he actually did have two houses on CM:

@Crystalizedmire: I think you might be in a safe zone.  Please do not act tonight.  I'm unsure if you would be able to act, but we need you as a beacon to the no-kill zone.

I have no confirmation that my Night 2 & 3 actions actually occurred.  However, on Night 1, I was only told that Imp was Town. 
So I appear to have misunderstood how the Mod would report on our Night actions.

So, maybe there are multiple houses in play interfering with night actions.  Eventually, that should prevent the mafia from killing, so I plan to continue developing.

I don't know if this matters, though.

[Imp]

EP, discuss.  I'm part way through.  I didn't trim any quotes though.

I know you prefer that.

Also time pressure.

I'm still digging through your reactions and attitudes towards Juice and Hyper/Sal.  I'm early D3.

others look and think.  I dunno who-all has how many posts.  I still got a few.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

note: this is for only messages before my first long one. i will make an updated on right now, just posting what i had in draft.
now for my thoughts, and not an activity check post
as i said, auction is most likely a recurring thing. once we’ve chosen our lynch, we can test out sherif on them, assuming they are amiable to the notion of being that guinea pig.

Elephant Parade (EP?) ive not seen you before, i have very little experience here. how would you describe your playstyle falling under? using ‘vibes’ to form general suspicions about players, or deducting them and what they say throughout the game? a different way altogether? based on what i’ve read in your messages this game, i can say you at least partially fall under both, albeit general suspicions taking priority.

NQT do you play the same in every game? how often and to which degree do you differ your playstyle? you havent really said much so i cant give any opinion, but im one to talk… hope you get better soon.

Jack why claim family genre? is it that important right away - as in, so you desperately need coordinating within your genre? what about other genres?
also, who doesn’t want smithy at this stage though, ha.
i do agree that it probably isn’t very worth it d1.

NJW i agree with a large majority on the general topic of the game itself you’ve said, especially coordinating. if mafia own the night, giving actions, or attempting to circumvent their actions gives - as FOU said - a roadmap for scum. additionally, i have no clue if your personal reads are correct, so i’ll question: how often do you think you read correctly? are you confident in either leading, or giving suggestions?

Verm i have no questions about you, just a statement that you seem very laid back here, which is different from how you played mostly vanilla 4, my only experience (at all) with you.

CM upfront with role info, and confident in plays. very little to go off of though - once again, who am i to say, hopefully i will be after tomorrow. my first concrete d1 read of town.

FoU an off topic but somewhat related question: i see you’re very active when i look at  your posts. how is that? is it a lot to handle or have you settled in just fine?
on topic: you seem to be able to read people already. why is that?

Tric what confidence! seems very fast and loose, leaning scum, but not enough content to actually say or imply anything yet. i can’t believe it, but i have light aggro on you d1 again. i cant really describe it, but i’ll leave you alone this game for now because you seem trustworthy. hopefully (ha).
why did you take darkroom? do you not care about your vote and wanted to get the ball rolling, or is it related to your role?

juicebox you have sent but a single message, so i’m willing to put my vote on you.

Imp there is already so much content to read here, is this normal - last game, was it mitigated? the auction is a very powerful tool. how often will we be able to use it though? is it a d/n1 thing? if the auction is as powerful as complete protection in lieu of a d1 vote (when we can settle on someone then take auction), why wouldn’t we touch the auction. i’m not connected to the auction also. your reads seem reasonable but same as last, don’t make much immediate sense to me. very in depth talking with elephant. send me the cliff notes? (ha).

side-note: is auction even the right way to describe it? more like a tiered marketplace. or sequential buy-in.

Hyper talks to me and EP the same.  Puts maximal distance between us.

Before that reads list.  Answers EP a lot.

i will strike through irrelevant or already answered info.

Don't take Butchery or someone else will have to take Smithy to prevent last-minute shenanigans, and I don't think anyone is universally townread enough to justly do that

If someone takes smithy and we have reason to question their alignment, we can always vote them later, right?

If all the auction items are taken off, then the quicker it is for me to kill an anti-town.

do you have a kill ability? or were you talking about lynching?
it seems cm has said their kill happens n5

Imp:
i dont really conceive of a way to reach even near post limit per day. it seems like a really high number just for convenience.
yessss, yessssss, my hoard of possstsss will become the biggest of allllll..
somewhat stressed, but not mentally, so all good. actively attempting to wade through the mess that is the thousand cuts of everyone’s differing and constantly variable opinions on people d1. ahem, not taking about anyone who posts paragraphs at a time on one topic. i’m fine with you taking sherif. i don’t really want to lose agency over my vote, especially when i don’t know or understand the long term effects of the auction, and you seem to have read everyone just fine at this point, where no one else has. i would be amiable to taking dormitory.

I don't see how the plan is as impossible as you're saying. It is possible to herd players sometimes. Also, I find it odd how strongly you reacted to my proposing a plan for dealing with the auction, acknowledging that it might not work, in response to NQT's question about whether we should try to clear the auction. I guess we can test how likely it would be to work:

Everyone: What are your thoughts on a plan that looks like this? Would you agree to it? How would you react if you were the executee?

• When a player would otherwise hammer, they instead declare intent to hammer (assuming the day isn't about to end).
• Everyone unvotes.
• People buy abilities, with the executee claiming Butchery so that they can't gum things up by claiming Smithy, and generally trusted players claiming the beneficial abilities.
• Once the last ability has been bought, the remaining players hammer the original executee, regardless of their personal opinions.

it does seem hard to coordinate, id be willing to participate. if i’m lynched, IS is AS does, that’s that.
you and imp are simultaneously at arm’s length and in each other’s faces.

it’s the d1 vote. yes, i agree it being town v town, but i would like to keep an eye on what they do tonight.
please don’t judge me town based on gambler. even if it’s a joke, it subtly reinforces me as town - but not guaranteed - when i’d rather be a guaranteed town person, instead of ‘oh, i dont have any reasoning, i just thought about it’.
not useless, but we apparently own the day, so

[EVERYONE]: why don’t we by using auction fully?

This could also go extremely poorly later in the game, so long as the mafia ensure they're the "remaining players".
Though that depends on whether the auction restocks.

we dont have to use this plan every day, just enough to be justified in use of it. also, the lynched was going to be gone if the plan hadn’t taken place, not accepting it with grace is a pretty scummy thing to do.

If the executee is Town then they should go along with it because them being executed with a cleared auction block is better for Town than them being executed without. If the executee is scum... Hmm, you make a good point. I agree that doing this later in the game would be a bad idea; I sort of took that for granted.

CM has made it explicit that progressing the auction will somehow let her use a kill. There isn't much to go on yet, but I'm not seeing her usual scumtells and I don't think scum!CM would be this forward with information, so I townread her.

that’s the gist of what i was going to put in notes at the end of this beast of a message.

I'm aware this sounds like complete nonsense to a lot of players, but if so, just don't worry about it.

$$$insert long list of evaluations$$$

Everyone else: keep your grubby mitts off that power or it'll be the worse for you tomorrow.

yes. yes it does.
very fair reads. i know i need to post more.
is there some specific info we should know about the auction that the general public doesn’t? or town secret/suspicion.

juicebox, Hyper: Neither of you have posted enough for me to get any kind of read on you, which means I'd be perfectly willing to execute either one of you today. Please fix this!
Hyper:

FIRST AND FOREMOST:
apologies for lack of activity. recently had a problem come up from the beginning of when i originally entered my in, but dealt with it. some small aftermath delayed me from my devices for 2 days, leading to this. anyways, im here now.

Hyper: Which players, if any, have you formed reads on?

give me an hour and i’ll send another message with some of my probing thoughts.

This did not happen. If it was because the problem came back up, that's fine. Otherwise, why not?

agreeable. im amending it as i speak (ha).
sleep, it was nearly midnight and i didn’t catch as much as i would’ve liked to the previous night. i posted what i was going to post then and there. also, typing on mobile is not easy or quick, especially when considering formatting. excuse my excuse, but it’s reality.

anyways, that’s the entirety of page 2’s messages that i would have a comment on. i have dinner to make, so i’ll put my responses and comments to page 3 out soon.

A look at how Sal interacts with EP:

N1's lack of kill was probably due to the protect on EJ, unless scum is juice + EJ + Imp and they were setting up a clear on EJ and Imp after juice flipped (nothing about this is impossible, but it'd be quite the scheme, especially since I don't think Tric confirmed he was targeting EJ before he did it).

I still don't understand why juicebox, noted scum, claimed being roleblocked (which nobody has claimed responsibility for) on a night when there was no kill

I don't know why anyone would possibly kill EuchreJack there and then. I sure wouldn't. If I had been scum, there's no doubt in my mind I would have wanted to kill you n1.

If EuchreJack was the n1 target, then we live in some kind of bizarro world. Excluding juicebox, who probably wouldn't have made the decision since he sleepwalks through games, that might be like... NQT and... maybe you? Pretty hard for me to swallow, to be honest.

I think it's more likely that EuchreJack is scum, not the kill target. A team with both EJ and juicebox in it is one I can definitely imagine no-killing d1 out of fear and the desire to play a quiet game.

Last person in the world Sal suspects. 

Wait, I thought EJ's thing caused actions to be disabled the night after they were used?

Yes. Crystal reported trying to use the same action twice in a row and failing.

Casual chatter.

@NQT, NJW2000, Salvatore Monday and/or Imp:
Are you four in a chat? I know from experience that Mafia inside a chat can convince you they're town.

Yes, I confirm what NQT just said being exactly right.

Salvatore, what do you think about Elephant Parade's action claim?

I think it's likely that Imp self-targeted, and I don't believe that a mafia action would force a town player to self-target in this context. It's really too much of a stretch. If Imp had self-targeted for benign reasons I don't see any good reason not to just say so, BUT I can easily imagine Imp being this petulant about it as town, so I'm not quite eager to pull the trigger just yet.

That said, if it ends up coming down to a thunderdome between Imp and NQT, I'm taking NQT's side here. NQT has been playing townie the whole game as far as I can see.

Huh.  Sal doesn't actually discuss EP at all.  I wonder if that matters.

If EP is maf.  Juice went for him D1.  And EP went for Juice D1.

Okay, so reads.

Let's do the easiest first.

I'm reading Imp as town here. They're playing well within their town meta in my opinion. They are contributing quite a lot to the discussion and they have also been pretty forthcoming with information

I also think that NJW is town as well. I like what they've been posting and their reads list appears to be well thought out.

Hyper, on the other hand is a scumlean for me. Being inactive for a good portion of the day and then voting someone else who is inactive when prodded is not a good look.

Elephant Parade I'm also scumleaning as well. I don't like that they're tunneling Imp, who is my main town read, and I also don't like how they have been pushing people to participate in the auction but haven't really committed to it themselves. It definitely could be a ploy to get town to use up their votes and get more voting power for the scumteam

Vermillion is another slight townlean, while they're posts haven't been amazing, their laser focus on getting hospital and willingness to share information do seem township to me

EuchreJack is a slight townlean for me. They have some decent posts, they seem to be starting to form some reads .

CM, is null for me while their focus on the auction to the detriment of scumhunting is a bit suspicious, I don't thinknthat's really enough to scumread them for.

Fallacy is also null, they have been unusually quiet, and they're not up to their usual shenanigans, but I think I need to see a bit more from them before I townread them.

Tric is a hard one for me. While their play to take Darkroom is within their town meta, I have a gut feeling that this may be scumTric using their town meta as a smokescreen. Only a slight scumlean for now, but I definitely have my eyes on them

And finally NQT. They're always a hard one for me to read. I think in this case they're a slight townlean. They've also been focused on the auction, but unlike Elephant Parade, they've actually been willing to use their vote in the auction which makes me trust them more

Hello Everyone, I'm going to try to be more active today. I can confirm that I was unable to perform any actions tonight. If I could have I was going to track Elephant Parade.

@Elephant Parade Why track Jack instead of someone you were suspicious of, like me or Imp?

CM targeting themselves is also a bit suspicious to me, with that plus their focus on the auction, it really seems like they're playing for themselves instead of playing to help town.

CM are you more or less suspicious of anyone now that everyone's claimed their night results?

My Reads are as follows:

Town:
NJW: I have no idea what Imp sees here. NJW is my strongest townread at this point. They've constantly been pushing cases and trying to solve the game

Elephant Parade: They've calmed down a bit since D1. They weren't been tunneling on Imp like D1 but instead entertained a couple of different cases D2

Not Sure:

Tric: I'm never too sure about Tric, their behavior is so erratic that I'm never sure if I'm reading them correctly. Maybe I'll get a feel for them eventually but at the moment I don't know

Salvatore Monday: Hasn't posted much. A decent observation here or there but not enough for me to townread them

Imp: Because of my Jack read below, I don't know if I can trust the town inspect on Imp anymore. Imp hasn't done anything outright scummy yet though, so I'm nullreading them for now.

Scum:
Jack: I'm starting to lean scum on Jack now. I definitely wasn't blocked last night. Also they initially said that they targeted Salvatore Monday N1, when they had actually targeted me. And while they did explain it away as mistyping I think they may be lying about their actions in an attempt to confuse us.

CM: They've done nothing to change my initial read on them. They've barely been more active than me and hasn't stated any suspicions on anyone who isn't me.

@NQT I wouldn't trade resources with them. I don't trust them enough to give them any resources.

@Imp I wanted to gather information on CM since I thought that they were suspicious

@Elephant the most recent thing that Tric's done of note is to attempt to use the bugles ability, which is an incredibly risky move to pull seeing as we had very little confirmed information at the time. This is a move that I could see Tric making as town or scum though.

And this casual answer to EP.

I'd love to do a high effort intro post but posting from mobile ducks, so I won't

@EP I haven't played a game with you, but I have played a game that you've modded

@NQT To answer your first question, Sheriff's Office would be quite nice to have, and Hospital's pretty good as well

Of course the obvious downside is that we have to give up voting power to be able to get it, which can definitely be quite risky, but I think that we can mitigate those risks with proper coordination.

And as for your second question, that doesn't sound like a terrible idea at all.

Okay.

Now for EP towards known maf:

My activity may be spotty this game. Please bear with me.

notquitethere: How do you decide which people to ask RVS questions?
juicebox: Have we played together? I don't think we have, but I could be forgetting.
FallacyofUrist: In the OP, your 'o' is mistakenly capitalized. How does this make you feel?

Magma Mater: Are bought abilities gained as General Abilities or Personal Abilities?

1/3 RVS happens to be a maf.  The first happens to ask how to pick who to RVS.  Amusing.

EP had that 'Imp hated it' plan of us all trying to like organize at the same time who got what auction items and then also who to elim.  Seemed... hard to believe would happen - to me.  EP pushed a bit with the idea then let it go.

Arguably this is a scum-sided plan though.  To my read.

EP, I usually try to engage with players who have had less attention as a priority, but eventually interact with everyone. This game might warrant a slightly different approach.


Everyone,  do you think it's worth us trying to clear through the auction to get the Sheriff's Office? What are the arguments for/against?

The optimal play might be to wait for someone to declare intent to hammer, have everyone unvote, allot abilities in whatever way feels reasonable, and then hammer the original executee with whoever's left. There are things that could go wrong with that, though, like said executee snagging Smithy (though if they were willing to play along, this could be prevented by having them buy one of the earlier abilities).

... I am not global campaign as a general ability.  That's just my playstyle shining through.

Not supposed to read the mod.  Still....

I read the game.

My new concern about the auction stuff - it probably empowers someone/unlocks stuff/does stuff.

That's a safe assumption about pretty much any global mechanic in a BYOR

Casual answer to Juice, also question to Hyper:

@EP I haven't played a game with you, but I have played a game that you've modded

Yeah, I remember that one. That's probably why I wasn't sure if we'd played, lol.

Hyper: Which players, if any, have you formed reads on?

Pressure on both maf:

juicebox, Hyper: Neither of you have posted enough for me to get any kind of read on you, which means I'd be perfectly willing to execute either one of you today. Please fix this!

juicebox: Who is your top scumpick, and who are their most and least likely partners?
Hyper:

FIRST AND FOREMOST:
apologies for lack of activity. recently had a problem come up from the beginning of when i originally entered my in, but dealt with it. some small aftermath delayed me from my devices for 2 days, leading to this. anyways, im here now.

Hyper: Which players, if any, have you formed reads on?

give me an hour and i’ll send another message with some of my probing thoughts.

This did not happen. If it was because the problem came back up, that's fine. Otherwise, why not?

VermillionSkies: What's your read of Imp?

Elephant Parade

Recall that my interest was conditional

We're entering the last third of the day. Do you have a case to push? Or are you going to help us get to the Sheriff's Office? If you end up not using your vote usefully today, I shan't be impressed.

Have I not been pushing a case this entire time? And giving up my vote 26 hours before the deadline seems like a bad idea to me, especially when I could just as easily (if not as certainly) do it 26 minutes before the deadline.

This reaction to my reads kinda sucks, considering... if he's maf too I have all the maf team low.

[snip; read explanations have been snipped]

Verm
Tric
CrystalizedMire

NQT, FoU, Hyper, Juicebox, Jack
NJW and EP

To me this read slate feels like a repeat of MVM4 (where I didn't play but quickly pegged you as scum -- ask FoU!) where you systematically cleared out townies who were actively playing the game, with the single exception of Max, and thereby dominated the conversation:

[snip; read explanations have been snipped]
Pro-town leans:
Verm
Jack
Nulls:
Max
Tric
Anti-town leans:
CrystalizedMire

NQT
Starver
NJW

It isn't impossible for it to be sincere or even largely correct this time, of course. I just don't buy it.

Re: Smithy: My issue is that someone needs to take it or people can use it to dodge the lynch, and that whoever takes it can't be lynched today, which is annoying. The closer we get to having a lynch slate the less annoying it becomes (because someone not on the lynch slate can take it). If I'm right that CrystalizedMire isn't scumread by anyone, and she's willing to give up her vote, then she would be a good option to take it.

Also hilarious, he would have snipped out our mutual partner.  Which makes WAY more sense than a town EP who wants to nail a scum-read Imp who also wants to see more of hyper and has reasonable sus of hyper and who (My brain works like this, dunno if EP's does) is also wondering if Imp and Hyper could be a team here or not or if Hyper could be maf alone.

EP responding to my reaction of my last game partner snip:

@Imp

Re: snipping out your partner: that was unintentional and a pretty big oopsie! If you click through to the posts, you'll see that I was doing a lot of deleting to get rid of everything but the order. I nearly deleted some other names too. I don't see how either the mistake or Hyper's position in the list damages my point, which is that scumminess on your most recent read list this game is inversely correlated with activity and you did the same thing last game as scum, to great effect.

I'm focused on you because you're one of my top two scumreads and continuing to do things I find suspicious.

I don't really understand what you're saying re: game page counts. 22 pages is extraordinarily quiet for a modern 10-player game that went to D3. 15 pages is quite reasonable for a 5-player game that ended N1. I don't think it was unreasonable for me to propose that the reason you were more active in the latter than the former was that everyone was more active in the latter, even if I was wrong.

Repeatedly saying you're town is entirely NAI and will do nothing to convince me.

Mention of Hyper here, pressure on Hyper and Verm not to vote lurkers.

Elephant Parade (EP?) ive not seen you before, i have very little experience here. how would you describe your playstyle falling under? using ‘vibes’ to form general suspicions about players, or deducting them and what they say throughout the game? a different way altogether? based on what i’ve read in your messages this game, i can say you at least partially fall under both, albeit general suspicions taking priority.

I would say I lean into vibes but I don't see vibing-vs.-deduction as a dichotomy or even a spectrum. They're techniques more than playstyles.

Hyper, VermillionSkies: As borderline lurkers, I don't think you should be parking your votes on another lurker. I'm not saying you shouldn't vote to execute them when the time comes, but right you need to start conversations with people and voting someone who's lurked the entire game is a terrible way to do that.

VermillionSkies, you in particular haven't been seeking out engagement with people, which is scummy even if you're new. You have to do more than answer questions, remark on things, and vote hardlurkers:

Alright!

General abilities seem very strong.

Nothing to do with Family, I'm Global Campaign.
I think Imp is the same, but I'm not certain.
All of my actions have to do with Locations.

The location list is really funny. For related reasons, we shouldn't lynch Tric today.

I am not interested in taking anything from the auction.

Okay, so!
I don't have any mechanical information on Tric's alignment, but they are in a spot that's very convenient for my nightgame if they're left alive.
Said nightgame is directly helpful to the town.

Imp continues to haunt my mafia games like some sort of phantom. Please stop correctly reading me D1, it's getting uncanny.

EP, I'm not entirely against the idea, it just feels a little too vulnerable to hijacking for me to be comfortable with it.

Speaking of Tric, huh? What are you doing?

I enjoy EJ's early information claim this game.

NJW seems kind of null to me, actually.

Also, two things:
1. The Auction only takes the vote for the day, not for the rest of the game.
2. If we're really going for the auction, I want the hospital.

EP: Imp this game is... honestly, NAI for me.
They're willing to throw out reads like that regardless of what faction they're in, from what I've seen, and walls of texts aren't uncommon either.
That said, I think they're playing more like CYOM or CYOS2 Imp than MVM Imp this game. Mild townlean, maybe?

I'd like a little more than what we have from Juicebox. Same with Hyper, but I like what they've put out more than what Juice has.
Fair warning, if the Hospital opens up I'm grabbing it. It's too valuable to not take.

EP feels townlean to me. At least, enough so that I wouldn't have too many grievances with them taking the Smithy.

I'm going to be entirely honest, my main towntell for Imp so far is willingness to type a lot.
They get very passionate as town, as it shows up as walls of text, which I'm seeing a lot of here, and didn't see nearly as much of, looking back in retrospective of MVM.
I don't have enough of anything else to be willing to put it up as official reasoning.

Also, what changed your mind on the auction?

I hate this.  Marks both maf as okay.  Though is okay with joining their wagons later.

Elephant Parade I'm also scumleaning as well. I don't like that they're tunneling Imp, who is my main town read, and I also don't like how they have been pushing people to participate in the auction but haven't really committed to it themselves. It definitely could be a ploy to get town to use up their votes and get more voting power for the scumteam

After Butchery was bought I pushed people to buy Smithy, and specifically Smithy, because, if left unbought, it could foil the lynch. I also pushed a specific scheme that would, in theory, have let people buy abilities without changing the result of the lynch. I otherwise haven't been pushing people to buy abilities, to my recollection.


Town Lean
NJW: pushing the game forward without fluffing his posts; some odd stuff in reads but we always anti-mindmeld; I could change my mind later but executing them D1 would be completely absurd

OK
CM: not a ton to go on, but I haven't seen her usual scumtells and I don't think scum!CM would be this forward with role information; however, increasingly unhappy about lack of nonmechanical posting
Hyper: was absent for a while but never pretended not to be; now more active; no strong impression of content otherwise
TricMagic: has barely posted, I still can't read Tric very well
EuchreJack: play reminds me unpleasantly of CYOS2 but I felt a bit better about him once he gave reads; would like to see more
juicebox: absent throughout most of the day but was literally offline

Hmmmm
NQT: mechanics focus, acting like a spectator

Scum Lean
VermillionSkies: not seeking to engage with anyone; parked vote on lurker despite being borderline lurker themself; skimming previous games, refusal to question people matches scum activity pattern and goes against town activity pattern; they did at least vote FoU with a question but only after I called them out
Imp: posting a lot but barely engaged with other people's posts at first, which is out of character for her; absolute anti-mindmeld; scumreading active players and townreading lurkers feels like MVM4 all over again
FallacyofUrist: has essentially only posted about RVS and mechanics; basically vanished when things got serious; Imp is emitting more scum signals but FoU is emitting absolutely zero town ones

So long I can't fit all in one post.