Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Elephant Parade]

There is a 0% chance that this game has four mafia. With 7 town and 4 scum, a single mislynch would have put as at LYLO. A mislynch plus juicebox's vengekill would have won scum the game. We would have had to lynch correctly 4 times without mislynching twice

[Elephant Parade]

And NQT and NJW could have quickhammered when I voted CM lol

[Crystalizedmire]

Im currently reading through the post. Considering that salvatore monday was casting doubt on euchrejack + Imp and the fact scum killed Euchrejack this late in the game, I think that the last scum was also trying to cast doubt on Euchrejack and/or Imp.
I did nothing last night due to Euchrejacks safe zone plan

[NJW2000]

And NQT and NJW could have quickhammered when I voted CM lol

I am a little insulted by the idea that anyone could do this well against NQT and myself in a 4v7. We won a 2v7 near flawlessly when we were scum together.

I did wonder why EJ was so firm that we target CM rather than himself to get to it, but he was clear on that point. He had claimed Monopoly, so I suspected it might be due to him hopping between locations in a weird way each turn.

Perhaps he thought he was in a location not where she was, and anyone targeting him ends up where he was end of night, not where she was.

Also a tempting place for maf to end up, since apparently being where she was would be a potential problem - who knows because maf probably know better.

You didn't think about this?

I mean... EJ should have been wherever CM was if his "build house" action was non-free and behaved normally. Which it turned out to be. But perhaps I'm missing something.

I guess it's a tempting place for scum to use a personal ability if they made the assumption that EJ wouldn't be in the safe zone? I didn't think about scum's personal abilities because I'm more interested in stopping the nightkill than thinking about other abilities. And CM seemed like someone scum!NQT might nightkill.

Possibly we're talking past each other on this - I'm not 100% I've understood your meaning here.

[Crystalizedmire]

CM: Who are your townreads?

My only firm townread is Imp. Last day I townread you as well but I'm more open to the possibility of you being scum. So my only real scum leans are NJW and NQT.

Why?

You still have lingering towncred from your playstyle and I'm not very sure duelist chat would've started out with 2/3 scum because it sounds very unbalanced to me. Imp is confirmed town after Euchrejack flip.

How'd EP go down to lingering towncred?

Why are you apparently sure that there's no godfather or other way to mangle an align inspect, so if the person who said I'm town is town, that for sure is true and not messed with?

Talk about that resources stuff, please.

As I said in the post, EP has gone to lingering towncred due to the fact that 2/3 scum in duelist chat seems weird and unlikely.
The resource stuff is that I can self target with an ability to gain a resource for every person that targets me. Then I can place a worker on a player. I can feed workers as a free action which causes me to see which players match the alignment of the first player I placed a worker on. This converts resources into victory points. Auction gives me resources for each item sold.

[Imp]

CM: Who are your townreads?

My only firm townread is Imp. Last day I townread you as well but I'm more open to the possibility of you being scum. So my only real scum leans are NJW and NQT.

Why?

You still have lingering towncred from your playstyle and I'm not very sure duelist chat would've started out with 2/3 scum because it sounds very unbalanced to me. Imp is confirmed town after Euchrejack flip.

How'd EP go down to lingering towncred?

Why are you apparently sure that there's no godfather or other way to mangle an align inspect, so if the person who said I'm town is town, that for sure is true and not messed with?

Talk about that resources stuff, please.

As I said in the post, EP has gone to lingering towncred due to the fact that 2/3 scum in duelist chat seems weird and unlikely.
The resource stuff is that I can self target with an ability to gain a resource for every person that targets me. Then I can place a worker on a player. I can feed workers as a free action which causes me to see which players match the alignment of the first player I placed a worker on. This converts resources into victory points. Auction gives me resources for each item sold.

Oh, nice.

So... if it matches flipped EJ's alignment?  Or... do you have to start over with a new first worker?

[Elephant Parade]

CM: Which of NJW and NQT do you find more suspicious? Why?

[Imp]

So, NQT.  You're pretty darn sure NJW is town.

Is that really just feel for you, or can you walk me through the yep town stuff he's done?

I kinda... struggle with this because I know you really ignored Sal - to my standards.

Also.  The stuff that's not vital for the secrecy of your role.  If anything isn't.  Would you discuss?  That's a hard one because for me I'd be like "Yeah, I'm not confirming or denying anything (Past the things I've already denied), thanks".

But it's your role and your stuff you've said throughout the game.

[Crystalizedmire]

CM: Who are your townreads?

My only firm townread is Imp. Last day I townread you as well but I'm more open to the possibility of you being scum. So my only real scum leans are NJW and NQT.

Why?

You still have lingering towncred from your playstyle and I'm not very sure duelist chat would've started out with 2/3 scum because it sounds very unbalanced to me. Imp is confirmed town after Euchrejack flip.

How'd EP go down to lingering towncred?

Why are you apparently sure that there's no godfather or other way to mangle an align inspect, so if the person who said I'm town is town, that for sure is true and not messed with?

Talk about that resources stuff, please.

As I said in the post, EP has gone to lingering towncred due to the fact that 2/3 scum in duelist chat seems weird and unlikely.
The resource stuff is that I can self target with an ability to gain a resource for every person that targets me. Then I can place a worker on a player. I can feed workers as a free action which causes me to see which players match the alignment of the first player I placed a worker on. This converts resources into victory points. Auction gives me resources for each item sold.

Oh, nice.

So... if it matches flipped EJ's alignment?  Or... do you have to start over with a new first worker?

I dont know because I havent asked yet.

CM: Which of NJW and NQT do you find more suspicious? Why?

Of the two, NQT. NJW still has lingering towncred and NQT tracking Imp feels weirder than NJW preventing NQT from acting on me and EP

[Elephant Parade]

@NJW: Re: CM: ...
Lazily turning statements into questions is one of CM's most reliable scumtells, IME. That balances out the out-of-range-to-fake ability claim, leaving a player who is moderately difficult to put on a team with juicebox yet who has utterly refused to engage with the daygame in a way that's unusual for her.

I don't agree. I think town!CM very often posts a question that jumps straight off what was being discussed. They even tend to pick up other player's language in their own posts, so get accused of sheeping a lot. It's just one example, but you can kind of see the thought process happening in this quote from the last game I played with CM:

...a not unreasonable read, if you don't know me from old. Can't help a townie trying not to not look like townie, of course, however badly. I found the question itself quite funny, though.

I can't know you from old because I'm relatively newer. Good point on it being an interesting question though.
NJW: Why did you ask me about that post in particular

This was them as town. I can probably find town examples of the lanugage thing too... it very nearly ended up with an elim on them here, for example. This is NAI at most for crystal.

@NJW: I still disagree -- I think that town!CM usually provides some kind of context or opinion or other text instead of just a raw statement-question. I agree that she's prone to sheeping as town; it's this specific thing that's a red flag to me. I'm not going to do a deep dive right now because I'm PFP and lazy and no longer inclined to lynch her over NQT anyway; maybe later today.

I know I voted for NJW this morning, but out of everyone alive and uncleared, NQT has been the most consistently shady, so that's the sensible place to put my vote. I'm obviously not going to hammer right now, though.

I skimmed Bring Your Own Monster for Town!CM posts and didn't see her do this. When she asks a simple question she generally includes something beyond the question.

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Could you please elaborate on this Suspicion on Fallacy?

There's something always off aboug his playstyle, like the time they claimed theyre vanilla town and they were superman.
Re:"teamed"
Im using that word to mean sharing a chat; Imp, Maximum Spin, and Fallacy could be sharing a chat without directly being maf.

I still wanna know why you suspect that of the 2/3 of us, more than you may suspect it of others.  What are you noticing that made it worth speaking about?

I dont actually suspect any one of you more than the other becuase me thinking that you guys are teamed is based on the interaction where Maximum Spin tried to get Fallacy over his insecurity. You defended Fallacy and placed a lot of trust in them while Maximum Spin tried to have Fallacy get over his insecurities. It felt like I walked into a private chat.

I vote no lynch

Why?
I would rather have a townie get elimminated rather than no elimination.

So my chain of thought with regard to CM goes something like this:

1) CM did the silly period-to-question-mark thing she does as scum, twice in one post
2) but it was just one post
3) but it was like her first actual daygame post of the game
4) but she's been engaging more today

Regardless of all that, I jumped the gun when I scumread her based on one post D3, and NQT has been generally and consistently scummier. You could call this intent to hammer but NQT still has to fullclaim (and other stuff is still going on).

PPE: And then I skimmed MVM4 where you pulled your quotes from and she does do it there, more than once, as town, so maybe this scumtell is fake. RIP.

[Imp]

My thoughts about CM are that she could be maf trying to talk very little because I (and maybe others?) think she's clever when she's maf more than town so act dumb?  I mean she's either a town carry or I dunno what kind of maf-thing this is.

But if we elim her and it's not over, say we have 1 maf left in this stupid duelist thing then I suppose EP is the one that catches a kill and we're stuck with this whole duelist thing over again only now I don't even have EP here - unless a protect or other cool thing happens.

If we elim one of NQT or NJW and the game isn't over, then duelist is - I think? done and then we get to wonder who used the alignment disguise family item if anyone.

EP, I wonder if it's convenient for you to try and use it on one of either yourself or me tonight?

If a maf tries to use it too, I dunno if they can cheat and win if you try to use it too.  If you just have a single target for it that's known then redirect if possible is a bigger risk, I'm thinking.

However who knows if it could work, if you could tie it up.  If you have something better to do, do it.

If we elim one of NJW or NQT and the game continues, the remaining maf has to decide who to kill between a wider reasonable field.

CM-maf might choose to kill any of the three of us;

I can imagine the NJW-maf or NQT-maf that remains from duelist might also kill any of the three of CM, EP, Imp.  Meaning I have some chance of not needing to figure that out anymore (I'm going to do my best if I'm alive to) Maybe the maf decides not to kill, maybe the kill gets stopped if there's any possible protection for any reason.

Apparently nobody but me is scared of 2 maf still alive; that's fine.  I'm not like... so scared I can't breathe or something.  But wow, I wanna elim either NJW or NQT.

It's a toss up.  NQT is scummier to me by far.  NJW is far quieter and part of me is totally freaked by him D1 and D2. However, inside the duelist chat he doesn't look -that- bad.  Except he doesn't use it.  He doesn't care about it.  He doesn't scumhunt either Sal or NQT in it.  He made 19 posts in it before I joined, 4 after.

His first post talks to both NQT and hyper, in a very vague/indirect way.  Hyper doesn't answer him, Sal when Sal joins doesn't either.  NQT gives an answer I don't like or believe, and NJW didn't follow up at all except to mention illness is fair.

Otherwise NJW just answers NQT's questions, in a fairly indirect way, and does react to Sal's comment basically calling NJW a stick in the mud (I paraphrase of course) and NJW notes that Sal's getting chattier.

One question from NJW to NQT about a question not answered in the thread, this is the night after Juice's death. About if CM's a hard scum read or if NQT wants to see the inspect, or both.  That's the point that NJW starts actually doing a bit of scumhunting in the thread, towards those outside it only.

Sal brings up that someone else could be reading the chat, NJW brings up that pretzels could maybe mess with it.  But 5 posts from NJW that I can read as game-interested, solve-interested, on the night after Juice died.

But maf brought me into it that night.  So that night maf know I'm coming.  And can prep for it if that's what happened.  So I'm not happy about that either.  And Sal actually looks like he's 'playing' and trying to solve more on N1 (no elim) and N2 (FoU elim) than N3 (Juice elim, and I'm headed into the chat which I am sure maf know)

Sal mentions his lack of sus of Juice N2.  Specifically that he doesn't always remember Verm (the N2 kill) is in the game.  Then mentions he doesn't remember Juice often either.  Makes excuses about Juice being NAI but maybe not.  NQT replies that Juice is null, Sal confirms yep, Juice is null.  NJW reacts to Sal talking more and for calling him that stick in the mud term, otherwise doesn't mention the scumhunt side.  NJW never names juice or JB.  He does react to NQT saying that FoU's genre makes Verm look more sus since they share it - but only to wonder why FoU wanted NJW's location info and to comment that maybe FoU and Verm were killed so EJ could have secret scum genre control.

--- I note again it's NQT who let slip he had a N0 action.  Which far as we've seen comes from that location genre they voted to put people wherever.

NJW is super non-reactive non-commital not even using the thread to my read until N3 - and that's the night I'm getting sucked in.  With NQT urging me to read the thread, read it close.

I don't like any of this.

[Imp]

However.

About revealing the genre.

AFTER Sal joins Duelist.

Which is reasonably shortly after he replaced.  After he joined maf channel I would presume. 

Sal just pops in.  Doesn't say anything.

NQT had hours before been discussing an idea.  Hours after Sal pops in NQT continues the idea.  Then greets Sal.

Hours after that, NJW wants to know what they think about revealing duelist genre.  Not who, but that it exists.  Doesn't offer an opinion.

NQT answers, wants it shared. Strong and definite.

NJW is the one who talks about fear about what maf might do with the info if people are known.  So don't say who.

Then Sal starts talking hours later, about how it's a mason chat to him and he thinks they're both very townie.

I don't like any of it.

But I think NJW is the one between them I want flipped.  I'm not sure.

Far less talking.  Far more aimed talking.  And my unease from D1/D2.

NQT looks awful.  CM is wtf but at least not in Duelist.

[Elephant Parade]

I think that the odds of the remaining scum also secretly being Family are lower than the odds of them being able to redirect me/bus my target, so I don't think using Pretzels is a good idea.

[Imp]

I think that the odds of the remaining scum also secretly being Family are lower than the odds of them being able to redirect me/bus my target, so I don't think using Pretzels is a good idea.

Sure.  Wonder why it reappeared though.

Maybe to make us wonder.

[notquitethere]

Imp

I'm not imagining it am I, NJW and Salvatore never converse in the duelist chat, it's always with me, right?

So, NQT.  You're pretty darn sure NJW is town.

Don't put words in my mouth. He's my #2 suspect! I literally said in my last post that there are good reasons to suspect him. That's not pretty darn sure at all!


Crystal

CM: Which of NJW and NQT do you find more suspicious? Why?

Of the two, NQT. NJW still has lingering towncred and NQT tracking Imp feels weirder than NJW preventing NQT from acting on me and EP

As I already explained, I had only a 40% chance of successfully tracking anyone, so tracking was an optional benefit and not the main reason I picked Imp— though of course clearing her in my mind was also valuable given that there was so much mutual animosity between us. Picking only one more-or-less arbitrary bit of information to make your read on is pretty sketchy!


Elephant Parade, why did you do a message last night instead of picking a useful family ability?


I can recognise I've hit the frustrating I'm-never-playing-this-horrible-game-again part of playing mafia. You know, where you're town but everyone hates you and the harder you try, the more you post, and the more you post, the more ammunition you give people to doubt you. The pro move is clearly to play like Crystal and NJW and avoid making waves so no one omguses you back. I'm going to keep fighting it though, as I actually want town to win this game and I'm not just going to lie down.