Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Imp]

Also, note I'm L-2.

My beautiful blue vote doesn't work on me, that's not how I'm designed.

I do lean town on EP.  I think this is town concern, impressed if I'm wrong there.

EP, I hope you spend a lot of today working on other stuff too.  We have maf to catch; and I ask you regardless of your tendency to ignore 'what scum say or ask'

I'm not going to take Sheriff's Office at the behest of someone I think is scum. If other people ask I'll think about it.

Buying Dormitory would be an unusual move for scum, though it does let you not have a voting record come hammer. I don't really know what to make of it but it doesn't make you scummier in my eyes.

I put Hyper and juicebox in OK instead of null because they posted content between my calling them lurkers and my posting the readlist. That's a hell of a thing to overlook when you're going back through my posts. Also, hardlurking, while bad, is less suspicious to me than the softlurking VS and FoU are and were doing, the way you're playing, and even the way NQT is playing. In any event, I haven't gone back and checked but I feel like Hyper has posted more actual content than either of them at this point.

I actually do flip town.  I'd like you to presume that - hey, all your evidence is out here why you think I'm maf.  Let's say I flip today, and you see I'm town.  And we magically don't get to see my flip with its mystery.  But now you know... Imp is for sure not maf.

What do you do with that day?  That actually is the world we're in.  Dig into it, please.  You're probably town and you are smart.  You have all you have, except my flip.  If I am town, what would you wish you had done different today?  Please do it.  See what you see, dig what you dig.

[Imp]

I could absolutely see town Imp just randomly adding genres

Town imp is well known for being pretty careful about lies.  I guess maf imp is too.

I claim I can't add genres.  But I can hold maf attention better if nobody knows what I do or how I do it, so they need to work to figure out what to do about me.

I can theoretically have self targeted, or done something else, that has some effect that isn't 'add genre to imp'.

I'm agreeing I got the genre.  I swear I didn't add it to myself or know it was coming or cause it in any way I know of.

If I targeted myself, it was for some other reason.  Here, maffie, maffie.  Whatcha gonna do with me, waste on me, try next?

That's not said to EJ in particular, the taunt.  EJ's likely town.

[NJW2000]

Imp, if you’re not denying EP’s claim, it would help if you made that very explicit.

If EP is scum, he almost definitely did use an investigative ability on you last night, so knows who you targeted. If EP is town, ditto, and scum know this and believe his claimed result. Either way, I don’t think confirming or denying his result will leak info to scum, unless they’re not reading the thread.

I know you are trying to keep information out of scum hands, and people should be doing that more this game, but if people vote you out, it will have been pointless.

[Elephant Parade]

@Imp: I'm going to press other people too (and continue to press you) as the day goes on. The reason I've been so focused on you this Day is that I wanted to resolve night action claims before getting into anything else, and it took a while to do that.

I never said I ignore what my scumreads say or ask. I pay quite a bit of attention to it. I was just unwilling to take a specific, highly impactful mechanical action at the behest of a scumread.

Please self-negative-vote and request a votecount so that we can confirm it doesn't work. I doubt you'd just lie about that, but it's an important angle to cover.

[Magma Mater]

Imp has privately asked me to confirm that she cannot self-vote with the blue vote. Rather than go through the rigmarole of confirming this via vote count, I'll just confirm in-thread that if Imp were to target herself with the blue vote, it would not be counted as a negative vote against her.

[Elephant Parade]

OK, good to know. Regardless of alignment, she isn't a true LYLO breaker, then.

[Elephant Parade]

Right now I'm thinking it's juicebox + Imp + EJ. Does that make sense? Consider how much juicebox didn't like me voting Imp:

Okay, so reads.

Let's do the easiest first.

I'm reading Imp as town here. They're playing well within their town meta in my opinion. They are contributing quite a lot to the discussion and they have also been pretty forthcoming with information

I also think that NJW is town as well. I like what they've been posting and their reads list appears to be well thought out.

Hyper, on the other hand is a scumlean for me. Being inactive for a good portion of the day and then voting someone else who is inactive when prodded is not a good look.

Elephant Parade I'm also scumleaning as well. I don't like that they're tunneling Imp, who is my main town read, and I also don't like how they have been pushing people to participate in the auction but haven't really committed to it themselves. It definitely could be a ploy to get town to use up their votes and get more voting power for the scumteam

Vermillion is another slight townlean, while they're posts haven't been amazing, their laser focus on getting hospital and willingness to share information do seem township to me

EuchreJack is a slight townlean for me. They have some decent posts, they seem to be starting to form some reads .

CM, is null for me while their focus on the auction to the detriment of scumhunting is a bit suspicious, I don't thinknthat's really enough to scumread them for.

Fallacy is also null, they have been unusually quiet, and they're not up to their usual shenanigans, but I think I need to see a bit more from them before I townread them.

Tric is a hard one for me. While their play to take Darkroom is within their town meta, I have a gut feeling that this may be scumTric using their town meta as a smokescreen. Only a slight scumlean for now, but I definitely have my eyes on them

And finally NQT. They're always a hard one for me to read. I think in this case they're a slight townlean. They've also been focused on the auction, but unlike Elephant Parade, they've actually been willing to use their vote in the auction which makes me trust them more

My Reads are as follows:

Town:
NJW: I have no idea what Imp sees here. NJW is my strongest townread at this point. They've constantly been pushing cases and trying to solve the game

Elephant Parade: They've calmed down a bit since D1. They weren't been tunneling on Imp like D1 but instead entertained a couple of different cases D2

Not Sure:

Tric: I'm never too sure about Tric, their behavior is so erratic that I'm never sure if I'm reading them correctly. Maybe I'll get a feel for them eventually but at the moment I don't know

Salvatore Monday: Hasn't posted much. A decent observation here or there but not enough for me to townread them

Imp: Because of my Jack read below, I don't know if I can trust the town inspect on Imp anymore. Imp hasn't done anything outright scummy yet though, so I'm nullreading them for now.

Scum:
Jack: I'm starting to lean scum on Jack now. I definitely wasn't blocked last night. Also they initially said that they targeted Salvatore Monday N1, when they had actually targeted me. And while they did explain it away as mistyping I think they may be lying about their actions in an attempt to confuse us.

CM: They've done nothing to change my initial read on them. They've barely been more active than me and hasn't stated any suspicions on anyone who isn't me.

@NQT I wouldn't trade resources with them. I don't trust them enough to give them any resources.

@Imp I wanted to gather information on CM since I thought that they were suspicious

Secondly—this is a bit of a reach because he wasn't exactly focused on her, it was a misunderstanding, and nightkill spec is WIFOM-y at the best of times—but Tric did suspect and vote Imp early D3, and I think was the only person to have voted her since her greencheck:

As far as I know, I am not immune to anything.Did you try to act on me last night?

I bugled you. The action went through, I didn't get roleblocked. However one of my personal abilities should have unlocked. Specifically my Narrative Ability. It happens when I've used two Family abilities successfully. Rather obviously it was not used successfully. Likewise my backup ability didn't trigger due to someone else using Bugles.

The answer can be deduced. Something interfered with my ability to force a vote thunderdome. And only one person has shown that, Imp.

I really don't want to believe it, but all signs point to you.

Can anyone think of another explanation for the nightkill? It can't be fear of him claiming his N3 Ice Cream (Jailkeep) target D4 because Ice Cream was gone at the start of N3 and nobody's claimed using it, meaning scum were responsible and knew he couldn't use it. (I assume it was either cheated out somehow or used by juicebox N2 to roleblock him, which Tric claimed D3.)

[Elephant Parade]

Although if it's juice + Imp + EJ I don't know why juice would have roleblocked Tric from challenging (without claiming it!) when his likely targets were NJW and me.

[Elephant Parade]

I think Imp's addition to the duelist list can be explained by it being a delayed action.

Then there's no explanation for Imp self-targeting last night, which she says wasn't something she did

Now that my cards are on the table, will you say whether you knowingly used a self-targeting action last night?

Read the above, your answer is clearly explained there.

In short and TLDR (which is dumb here) 'no'.

I don't see myself discussing that specifically further.  We do have a post limit.

[notquitethere]

Not related to the Imp situation, but did we clear up the blocking thing from yesterday? I didn't understand what people were claiming. Apologies if someone has already answered.

[Imp]

I think Imp's addition to the duelist list can be explained by it being a delayed action.

Then there's no explanation for Imp self-targeting last night, which she says wasn't something she did

Now that my cards are on the table, will you say whether you knowingly used a self-targeting action last night?

Read the above, your answer is clearly explained there.

In short and TLDR (which is dumb here) 'no'.

I don't see myself discussing that specifically further.  We do have a post limit.

I never said if I did or didn't.  I confirmed I would not say whether I did or didn't.  If I did, it was for some non-genre-adding purpose.  Whatever I did or didn't do, non-genre adding purpose.

Can anyone think of another explanation for the nightkill? It can't be fear of him claiming his N3 Ice Cream (Jailkeep) target D4 because Ice Cream was gone at the start of N3 and nobody's claimed using it, meaning scum were responsible and knew he couldn't use it. (I assume it was either cheated out somehow or used by juicebox N2 to roleblock him, which Tric claimed D3.)

I see a pattern in the 2 nightkills.  Maybe a few.

Verm was one of our 'eyes' with the open location stuff.  It's really strategic to kill him given he is town.  Annoyingly and slap in the face to me, I sussed him shortly before end of D2.  I was surprised he was the kill because I wondered if he was maf.  He wasn't resolving stuff with me in day game discussion like I expected.  Maf killing him took a 'I will chase this' away from me.  I was sus of Verm and said so.

Tric is a narrative claim.  I claimed a lot because of my confusion about Crystalizedmire's claims.  They're a fairly good match for the info I have.  Tric claimed something very different about his narrative mech and I was gonna take him apart as a likely maf narrative, with some confusion and concern.  His role looks broken/nonfunctional and maybe one of us could fix it.  But I actually don't have the missing pieces that would have made his retirement be able to target a maf.  And that one ability doesn't upgrade when he unlocks his narrative.

Narrative (Genre)
_{It's time to tell a story. A journey awaits you, fraught with peril and woe. But just when all seems lost, you will snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.}
you possess a locked one-shot killing ability. It is unlocked when the specified condition is met. When it unlocks, upgrade all of your abilities.

Personal Abilities

Retirement (Active, 1-shot, Locked)
_{You've had a good life, and it's about to get better. Beach house, anyone?}
Target yourself. Your target will be killed. This ability is unlocked once you've successfully used two Family abilities, while you possess the Narrative General Ability.

It unlocks.  It doesn't say anything about improving.  It should.  And this happened before Tric died because he claimed it.  Tric was ... robbed?  And not at time of death.  I don't get why this doesn't upgrade.  Unlocking isn't an upgrade, right?  And what benefit is this?

How to force a maf to punch him as he uses it?

Granted, it does unlock very easily. 

Narrative (Genre)
_{It's time to tell a story. A journey awaits you, fraught with peril and woe. But just when all seems lost, you will snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.}

How?  How could killing himself do this?

Annoyingly, I don't have those answers.  This is the weirdest.... it almost conflicts with what I have as my info.  CM's claims are a way closer match.  The flip of Eurogame's reveal about killing an opposite faction is closer.  Maybe I am reading my role info wrong.  Maybe CM is my princess in the right castle.

Oh, and that ability juice had, 'Princess'?  Wow, Mater.  Wow.  Okay, that's 'right castle, wrong princess' right there, thanks.

I really lean town on CM.  The day game's not there but hey.

Because of her I admitted I have reason to think there's a narrative version of her; who is clearly hiding.  Great.  Hide.  Be hidden.  Do whatever you do, I'll try not to accidentally trip you up.  I'm built to help you and I was not built to help Tric.  I would have never revealed I have reason to think you exist except I really believed CM was you.

Back to Tric.  Annoyingly I was really sus of Tric and seriously considering the odds of his being maf, as I said D3.  His flip I think is stategic, he is narrative and they know I'm town and believe my claims about narrative, plus what they know, whatever that is.  Tric was... probably bait.  Thanks Tric.  I hope you had an heir and I hope you chose well.  Nope, not claiming to be that person/one of them.  I just thank Tric for everything.

But dang.  If it's NQT as maf... I also get the feel of 'poke Imp' in these kills.  And I think NQT felt poked by me because when dead town him decided to use his one shot on me... I acted town.  He clearly didn't get why, he wanted to know why I did that.  Wasn't arrogance or showing off or to muddle his brain (past normal scumplay).  I thought if he knew I was maf he had some way he could tell town that I didn't know about.  Why else pick me... I knew I was maf and that he super sussed me.  I thought he had a trap hidden in the threads and his advice for me to pass word from him to town was based on his goal to confirm me maf then get me dead.

And this game, if he's maf that knows me town.  I wonder if that feels motivating still, to kinda poke at me like that.  Unsure, I'd probably be too busy as maf to make that leap, unless I was dang sure I was gonna win and felt really safe.  I don't think our game's maf are that well off?  But I do wonder.

Both the NK are strategically useful, blinding location knowledge and... stopping the likely powerhouse of Tric.

[Elephant Parade]

I think Imp's addition to the duelist list can be explained by it being a delayed action.

Then there's no explanation for Imp self-targeting last night, which she says wasn't something she did

Now that my cards are on the table, will you say whether you knowingly used a self-targeting action last night?

Read the above, your answer is clearly explained there.

In short and TLDR (which is dumb here) 'no'.

I don't see myself discussing that specifically further.  We do have a post limit.

I never said if I did or didn't.  I confirmed I would not say whether I did or didn't.  If I did, it was for some non-genre-adding purpose.  Whatever I did or didn't do, non-genre adding purpose.

Oh, I took it as 'no, I didn't, not 'no, I won't answer.' The latter is completely bonkers to me given that whether you targeted yourself is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, but it's not an outright scumclaim. For what it's worth, it would be +++++++++town in my eyes for you to confirm whether or not you targeted yourself. (or bussed yourself with another player, which is the other plausible way I could've received that result)

I read the rest of your post but I don't really agree.

[Salvatore Monday]

I wrote a long effortpost trying to answer Imp's question about my d2 reads and then my VPN cut out just as I was finishing and I lost the whole thing because my browser auto-redirected to a captive portal page. When I hit back, the post was back to just the quote I started with. Modern technology is so great, isn't it?

Anyway, I don't think anything in it was all that important. The most important question for me right now is, if scum can "interfere" with the Duelist genre by adding a player, would they add a town or a scum player? I could see it going both ways, and I could even see the ability requiring a town player, especially if one of us is scum. (If so, I might slightly lean toward it being NQT for being the one to suggest we were all town in the first place, but I'm pretty okay with both of them so I don't really think so.) If scum knew who had the duel genre, which seems likely, they would have seen us all townreading each other and might have just wanted to stir confusion between us, too. I think overall I'm weakly reading Imp as town here for this event.

[Salvatore Monday]

and then I just started to read the rest of the thread from there and see that EP has invalidated that line of argument. :|

Still trying to catch up here.

[Salvatore Monday]

Not related to the Imp situation, but did we clear up the blocking thing from yesterday? I didn't understand what people were claiming. Apologies if someone has already answered.

Apparently, yes, at least partially. Jack didn't block anyone at the location as he originally said, but disabled our actions for the next night instead. I don't think either Tric or Jack were actually blocked, they just didn't receive any particular results? That's the part I'm not sure about still, so I say partially.