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[Imp]

... that's using my own mech.  Something like Heist where a maf uses me/another player for a kill, I have nothing preventing that.  But what I did could not have been redirected 'to Tric'.

That's fine, and I'm not asking what you did. But I really need to know, did you or did you not target yourself?

You are an interesting fisher.  Care to explain to the class how and why knowing this helps town?  I can see reasons why that might really help maf.

[Elephant Parade]

... that's using my own mech.  Something like Heist where a maf uses me/another player for a kill, I have nothing preventing that.  But what I did could not have been redirected 'to Tric'.

That's fine, and I'm not asking what you did. But I really need to know, did you or did you not target yourself?

You are an interesting fisher.  Care to explain to the class how and why knowing this helps town?  I can see reasons why that might really help maf.

It helps town because it helps us figure out if you're scum using information I won't share until you answer the question.

[Imp]

... that's using my own mech.  Something like Heist where a maf uses me/another player for a kill, I have nothing preventing that.  But what I did could not have been redirected 'to Tric'.

That's fine, and I'm not asking what you did. But I really need to know, did you or did you not target yourself?

You are an interesting fisher.  Care to explain to the class how and why knowing this helps town?  I can see reasons why that might really help maf.

It helps town because it helps us figure out if you're scum using information I won't share until you answer the question.

No comment.  You've heard my concerns about why.  If I'm maf, I can probably look more town than this.

I bet maf would like to know.

I have around 30 posts left.  I don't see myself discussing this further.  Based on all I know (I don't know EP's side of it) this is the scummiest thing EP's done in this game yet.  Might be fine.

I don't confirm if I acted last night.  I don't confirm if I could act.  I don't confirm if I was stopped.  I do confirm that whatever I did could not have been redirected 'to Tric'.  That's true if I targeted myself, 'something else', took no action, and anything else it could mean.

[notquitethere]

Imp, you can't honestly think EP is scum here. If you're town being incredibly stubborn then we're going to have to have a chat when this is over about mafia being a team game. I honestly can't see what scum could usefully determine from learning that you did or didn't self-target.

[Elephant Parade]

OK fine. I watched Imp last night expecting her to eat the mafiakill (she's greenchecked and hard to place on a team with juice, and she had a bit of info related to the EJ mess) and the result I received was that she had been visited only by me (obviously) and herself. Normally this would be a fairly boring result aside from letting me catch out someone fakeclaiming an action on her, but then I learned she was added to the duelist genre last night, presumably by scum. I know I wasn't the one to add her, and I know nobody else targeted her unless it was with a silent action or something, and I know she targeted herself. So either she added herself to the genre is as scum, or the mafia's apparent duelist-ify cheat is silent/nontargeting (there's no way of knowing if this is the case but my gut finds it eminently plausible) and she acted on herself in some other way.

I wanted to nail her down on whether she self-targeted before revealing any of this, for obvious reasons, and I wanted to do it with the vaguest question possible because anything else would hint that I had tracked her to herself, robbing me of the opportunity to catch a possible scum!Imp in a lie. Mentioning Tric in my penultimate question was a red herring to make it marginally less obvious what I was doing.

I don't think Imp is necessarily the best lynch today, or possibly ever, but I'm leaving my vote there for a bit.

[notquitethere]

Salvatore, NJW, it certainly looks like it's Imp giving herself an extra genre and that pulled her into the Duel chat.

Euchrejack, what do you think of this development?

[Imp]

OK fine. I watched Imp last night expecting her to eat the mafiakill (she's greenchecked and hard to place on a team with juice, and she had a bit of info related to the EJ mess) and the result I received was that she had been visited only by me (obviously) and herself. Normally this would be a fairly boring result aside from letting me catch out someone fakeclaiming an action on her, but then I learned she was added to the duelist genre last night, presumably by scum. I know I wasn't the one to add her, and I know nobody else targeted her unless it was with a silent action or something, and I know she targeted herself. So either she added herself to the genre is as scum, or the mafia's apparent duelist-ify cheat is silent/nontargeting (there's no way of knowing if this is the case but my gut finds it eminently plausible) and she acted on herself in some other way.

I wanted to nail her down on whether she self-targeted before revealing any of this, for obvious reasons, and I wanted to do it with the vaguest question possible because anything else would hint that I had tracked her to herself, robbing me of the opportunity to catch a possible scum!Imp in a lie. Mentioning Tric in my penultimate question was a red herring to make it marginally less obvious what I was doing.

I don't think Imp is necessarily the best lynch today, or possibly ever, but I'm leaving my vote there for a bit.

I reconfirm that I did not add myself to the genre/chat.  I also reconfirm that is not something I can do or expect to become able to do.  It was a total surprise to me.

If nobody besides EP and myself targeted me, (and if EP is town - I think he is, this looks good too).

Then either EP was forced to add me, or I was forced to add myself, (this might be how it mechanically works, similar to Heist mechanic for how the maf there used me to actually go to the kill) or it's silent/doesn't involve targeting in a way EP could track.

Like...

[Extra Action, Mafiakill, Day] My Personal Butler: [Player] is Town. However, they are also your Butler. A handy scapegoat if needed. A useful ally if not. When you use this action, target a player. Your Butler will kill them in addition to their Action. This is not known to the Butler. Your Butler is unaware of your existence on the boat due to hypnosis performed upon them.

[/quote]

He died D1.  So we never saw what a track result looks like.  But he'd use that ability and target 'not me' and then I'd go target his target to do the kill.

I don't get what's going on.

I do get that this exists:

Inflict Scar (Active)
_{A minor blight upon the land.}
Target another player. Mark their current location; thenceforth, any player who starts the night at that location will not able to target themselves. They will be told this at the start of the night.

I either don't care about self targeting and want to eat maf attentions about it.  Or I care and don't wanna be self targeting limited.

Or I don't care about 'some other' targeting and wanna eat maf attentions about it presuming they have a way to mess with that stuff.  Or I care and don't wanna reveal that this is how to mess with me at least sometimes.

Or I don't care about having not acted last night and wanna eat maf attentions about it, and everything else.  More they do to mess with me, good.  Less they mess with town.  More they mess with other townies, less they have to mess with me.  Red flag, maf.  Whatcha wanna do?  Who you gotta stop and how?

And EP.  If I did self target knowingly, that doesn't rule out being potentially forced to target myself to add myself to the genre.  Just like you having targeted me doesn't rule out you being forced to add me.  Or it could be silent.

Interesting mech spinning here.

[Elephant Parade]

Now that my cards are on the table, will you say whether you knowingly used a self-targeting action last night?

[Imp]

Now that my cards are on the table, will you say whether you knowingly used a self-targeting action last night?

Read the above, your answer is clearly explained there.

In short and TLDR (which is dumb here) 'no'.

I don't see myself discussing that specifically further.  We do have a post limit.

[Elephant Parade]

Oh okay then you're almost certainly just scum. Cool. I could easily buy that the cheat is nontargeting but it seems massively less likely that it works by forcing someone to target themselves.

[Imp]

Oh okay then you're almost certainly just scum. Cool. I could easily buy that the cheat is nontargeting but it seems massively less likely that it works by forcing someone to target themselves.

Look ye well, oh town.  And remember, when you see my flip.  Who wants to know so badly how to stop me.

[EuchreJack]

@NQT: I thought I was clear that I was voting someone other than juicebox in order to fuel discussion on Day 2.

And it worked, as we got participation from juicebox, Crystalizedmire and Salvatore Monday.  If I hadn't created the possibility of someone other than juicebox getting voted, none of those three would have had any reason to post anything on Day 2.

[EuchreJack]

Salvatore, NJW, it certainly looks like it's Imp giving herself an extra genre and that pulled her into the Duel chat.

Euchrejack, what do you think of this development?

I haven't caught up yet

[EuchreJack]

I think Imp's addition to the duelist list can be explained by it being a delayed action.

[EuchreJack]

I could absolutely see town Imp just randomly adding genres