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[Imp]

note: this is for only messages before my first long one. i will make an updated on right now, just posting what i had in draft.
now for my thoughts, and not an activity check post
as i said, auction is most likely a recurring thing. once we’ve chosen our lynch, we can test out sherif on them, assuming they are amiable to the notion of being that guinea pig.

Elephant Parade (EP?) ive not seen you before, i have very little experience here. how would you describe your playstyle falling under? using ‘vibes’ to form general suspicions about players, or deducting them and what they say throughout the game? a different way altogether? based on what i’ve read in your messages this game, i can say you at least partially fall under both, albeit general suspicions taking priority.

NQT do you play the same in every game? how often and to which degree do you differ your playstyle? you havent really said much so i cant give any opinion, but im one to talk… hope you get better soon.

Jack why claim family genre? is it that important right away - as in, so you desperately need coordinating within your genre? what about other genres?
also, who doesn’t want smithy at this stage though, ha.
i do agree that it probably isn’t very worth it d1.

NJW i agree with a large majority on the general topic of the game itself you’ve said, especially coordinating. if mafia own the night, giving actions, or attempting to circumvent their actions gives - as FOU said - a roadmap for scum. additionally, i have no clue if your personal reads are correct, so i’ll question: how often do you think you read correctly? are you confident in either leading, or giving suggestions?

Verm i have no questions about you, just a statement that you seem very laid back here, which is different from how you played mostly vanilla 4, my only experience (at all) with you.

CM upfront with role info, and confident in plays. very little to go off of though - once again, who am i to say, hopefully i will be after tomorrow. my first concrete d1 read of town.

FoU an off topic but somewhat related question: i see you’re very active when i look at  your posts. how is that? is it a lot to handle or have you settled in just fine?
on topic: you seem to be able to read people already. why is that?

Tric what confidence! seems very fast and loose, leaning scum, but not enough content to actually say or imply anything yet. i can’t believe it, but i have light aggro on you d1 again. i cant really describe it, but i’ll leave you alone this game for now because you seem trustworthy. hopefully (ha).
why did you take darkroom? do you not care about your vote and wanted to get the ball rolling, or is it related to your role?

juicebox you have sent but a single message, so i’m willing to put my vote on you.

Imp there is already so much content to read here, is this normal - last game, was it mitigated? the auction is a very powerful tool. how often will we be able to use it though? is it a d/n1 thing? if the auction is as powerful as complete protection in lieu of a d1 vote (when we can settle on someone then take auction), why wouldn’t we touch the auction. i’m not connected to the auction also. your reads seem reasonable but same as last, don’t make much immediate sense to me. very in depth talking with elephant. send me the cliff notes? (ha).

side-note: is auction even the right way to describe it? more like a tiered marketplace. or sequential buy-in.

Hey.  Maybe we shouldn't flip the Hyper/Sal slot today.

D1 we needed 6 votes to elim anyone, at first, with the auction tangling that beautifully.

Early in the day, Hyper drops a vote on Juice.

If Hyper's maf, and I know Hyper maf fairly well, my 1 game with him, his first game here - he was my maf partner.

This doesn't make sense.  This is very likely Hyper town.

We know FoU's town.  We didn't know then, but FoU pushed EP to unvote Imp and even pushed EP to vote Juice.  which FoU could have swapped and hammered Juice.  BOLD move for EP to make if maf.  FoU didn't do that, but FoU could have.  And EP could have ensured a no elim.  Instead FoU did, but we know FoU's town (and FoU, please learn from this and see about playing townier; the rest of us get it in our heads that FoU still does stuff like this as town)

But Hey, if Hyper's maf.  He's maf in 2 games in a row and he knows Imp is town.  I know that, the rest of you not-maf can eval but this is more town than I could get Hyper to look/feel to my sense when I was his maf partner and we were discussing what to do.  This also has town-value.

If Hyper's maf, he kept that vote on Juice as the pressure closed down.  As people went into the auction.  As his scumteam discussed what to do.  He appeared offline near EoD, with a scumteam maybe begging him to get here and do something.  Afterall - FoU is town, we now know.  EP allowed FoU a hammer chance on Juice.  So did Hyper - absent scum, maybe, he dropped out about a day later.

But probably not maf.

Vote Count - Day One End

Elephant Parade (2) - juicebox, FallacyOfUrist
juicebox (2) - Hyper, Elephant Parade

Not Voting (1) - NJW2000

With 5 votes in play, 3 are required to lynch or to no-lynch.

Thoughts?

[Imp]

Claim: I targeted notquitethere in a mostly benign way. I'm not sure if NQT can technically confirm this or not.

I don't trust Fallacy here.

Hi.

Ensuring you saw this.

Also, Hi!  Salvatore Monday, It's Monday and you are our salvation!  Thanks for subbing in, what may we know about you, and what do you understand about this game so far and what's happened, what reads if any you have, nice to meet you!

Hi.   

I read the game thread before agreeing to sub in. There are certainly players I think are more likely to be town and players I trust less. I'll venture to say that I believe notquitethere, NJW2000, Elephant Parade, and TricMagic are probably acting like town to various degrees. FallacyofUrist and CrystalizedMire don't sit right with me. VermilionSkies feels off too. The rest I would have to group as null.

I don't really consider anything that happened d1 to be much of a tell, especially around the auction. I'm taking most of that as null for now.

That said, Sal.

Discuss this.  What's worse about Verm, FoU, and CM than 'the rest' which you call null?

Which would be Juice and Imp.

[Elephant Parade]

Imp, everyone else except me has claimed their actions. Will you claim now?

[Imp]

Imp, everyone else except me has claimed their actions. Will you claim now?

No.  I non-claim.  I didn't cause any of the weirdness discussed.  I didn't do anything that would typically be something we would claim about because it can help confirm something or prove a lie.  I do non-claim.  I didn't do anything related to what's discussed or not.  I do not confirm if I could act or not, if I did take 1+ action(s) or not.  But if I acted, it's got nothing to do with what's been discussed by anyone.


Hey.  If maf wanna know what I'm doing, they can waste actions on me instead of the rest of town.  If maf wanna flip me, they get to face the consequences of my flip, because I have motivation not to say everything I see in my flip, but once I'm dead that's gone and I don't have to say it anyway.

Until then, I help town by being whatever I am to maf.

[Elephant Parade]

It's not personal to you. I performed an unspecified investigative action and because of it I really must insist everyone claim what they did. You can leave out some of the precise details if you want (e.g. "I used a protect on Magma Mater that also lets me target them with a kill next night if I choose" -> "I protected Magma Mater"), but I have to know what you did.

[notquitethere]

Let's see what the EODs look like now we have two more flips:

D1
Elephant Parade (2) - juicebox, FallacyOfUrist
juicebox (2) - Hyper{Salvatore}, Elephant Parade

Not Voting (1) - NJW2000

This strongly suggests Elephant Parade is town. It speaks mildly well of NJW, who could have hammered EP (though maybe it's risky and maybe he just wasn't around). It speaks well of Salvatore, as a scum-Hyper would be bussing in a very risky situation here.

D2
FallacyOfUrist (6) - EuchreJack, NJW2000, Elephant Parade, Salvatore Monday, TricMagic, notquitethere
NJW2000 (2) - FallacyOfUrist, Imp
CrystalizedMire (1) - juicebox
juicebox (1) - VermilionSkies

Not Voting (1) - CrystalizedMire

I would expect this day of all the days to follow the classic pattern where scum pursue different wagons. As such, you'd expect at least one of them on the Fallacy wagon (indeed, that has to be the case if the scum team isn't exactly Imp+Crystal).

D3
juicebox (5) - CrystalizedMire, notquitethere, TricMagic, Elephant Parade, EuchreJack
TricMagic (1) - Imp

Not Voting (3) - Salvatore Monday, NJW2000, juicebox[/quote]
Salvatore, NJW and to a much less degree, Imp, all come out of the EOD looking slightly dubious, as if they were bussing they didn't bus quick enough. EJ also looks bad as the last one on the wagon. Juice and Crystal have been enemies all game, which could be genuine or could point to a strategy of distancing.

Juice was the big wagon yesterday, but was there a point where that wasn't yet certain? This is what it looked like near the start of D3:

Early D3
juicebox (1) - CrystalizedMire, Imp, notquitethere
NJW2000 (1) - EuchreJack
CrystalizedMire (1) - Elephant Parade
TricMagic (1) - Imp

Not Voting (4) - TricMagic, Salvatore Monday, NJW2000, juicebox

If we have a scum-EJ, then this alternative NJW wagon (which he would have reasonable expectation of getting Imp on) speaks well for NJW.

Conclusions
- Elephant Parade is almost certainly town.
- Salvatore isn't certain to be scum — Hyper nearly got juicebox eliminated on D1.
- If Crystal is scum then she and Juice had a game-long distancing plan
- Euchrejack, Imp, NJW and Salvatore, while obviously not all bad, all were late to the Juice wagon. Imp said that she would hammer and she did exactly that, so I don't think that's suspicious. Euchrejack was earlier hoping for an NJW elimination. NJW and Salvatore didn't vote but have claimed that they didn't want to put Juice in hammer range.
- Imp has been off-wagon for the last two days, controlling the game's tempo with her negative vote. NAI?


Imp, EP is the most likely player to be town. Stop trying to solo hero it out and help his plan.

NQT, you've seen me be successful maf once.  Umm.  How crazy did I play that game, and on the scale of reasonable to off the rails weird, how do you rank my typical town play and what do you think of my typical (so far) maf play?  And do you have any particular reasons to think I'd prefer to play really oddly if maf?  And do you not think I play pretty oddly as town?

You have a high degree of attention to mechanics regardless of alignment. In the game where you were scum, you were very prone to OMGUS attacks, exactly as you have been in this game, which is a large part of my read on you in earlier days (as you can read for yourself in the duelist chat). I'm not sure about "craziness" — you have a style of splurging all your thoughts onto the page and being eccentric regardless of alignment I think.

[Imp]

I'm calling you on your read of me of OMGUS being scummy for me.  I've often taking big swings at maf who thought town me looked scummy.

It happens too.  Web in CYOS1.  4maskwolf in BYOMonster, Hector in Soviet, there's others a bit further back.

This game, a true read of me might ask, "Imp, why aren't you OMGUSing EP?"  It's because I think he's town (now) but even early when he pushed me hard, I voted NJW (for protection by EP concerns).  Both D1 and D2.

NQT, you're latching onto something in a way I think feels performative and not like your typical play.

I'm not sure you're maf.  If you're maf I wonder if you also have the brainpower to in addition to play the game, actually wanna get me back for foxing you last game as maf (I was playing to win, foxing you if it happened was incidental and I was just doing the best I could with all the unknowns I had) by making sure you 'show off' and 'fox Imp'.  That's fine, but my deep town plays last game, like talking to dead NQT as if I were as town as I could -

I wasn't mocking you.  I was scared.  I didn't know all you had and could do.  I thought I could be trapped.  And I didn't know the size or shape of the trap.

So I don't really think you're trying to fox me past normal play even if you're maf.  That takes a lot of extra brain power and... maybe you have that and enough confidence to be able to pick how you play?

I had that my first successful team maf game.  It was glorious and if you've got that now.  I'm so happy for you and I'm so happy you're that mistaken (hey, you might be).

NQT and NJW do most of the talking in duel-chat.

One thing I note that isn't discussed there.  If, say, NQT and Hyper/Sal both are maf, and it's just EP there as town.

They can't let EP die.  They can't let each other die.

If EP dies... and EP's the only one that wanted to discuss the duelist channel.  He was openly surprised the other two didn't.  See if they never say to us who they are.  And even if EP flips.  Then they don't have to claim being duelist.  If they do now they're trapped.  If one flips and they both said they're both town, the other flips next.  If they never discuss it, then they can flip safer if one does - the other's hidden.  If they claim both town and neither keeps being the NK, as we get closer to endgame that looks vastly more sus.  True town masons Jim and EP in FBYOR6 had it stressfully easier than maf-faking-masons would have it.  The flip of one proves, not dooms the other.

So, bring someone else in?  Someone probably not gonna be NK?  Sure could be why I'm there.  We find out after the game.  Because they expect to lose Sal today?  Works for me.

Even if Sal's town.  Because if nqt is maf, he can't let either sal or EP die, not to elim or anything else unless he can ensure first to elim and second to NK?  But if protect can work against NK.  We see, say, Sal flip.  We see EP flip the next night.  EP never said 'nqt is it', nqt's tracks are covered.  But if we see sal flip duelist, we know EP claimed he'd be told the align of the other... likely even without being able to discuss it's now a town race to protect EP that night so he can for sure live if at all possible to tell us who else is conf town or conf maf.

Better to bring someone in.  Am I the best to bring in?  We find out after the game, when we can read the scumchat and stuff.

There's a few things off about nqt.  I was more town on him D3 than D4.  I'm less sure right now that we should elim Hyper/Sal.

But of us here.  I know what Hyper did with me in mafchat.  I have never seen nqt be maf, I imagine he's brilliant.  And can teamwork like a dream.  So.  If Hyper is maf with nqt, that could make sense for that reads and the rest of the 'better than last game as maf, with an Imp partner'.

Very much spec.  But I'm iffy on both.

Not iffy:

Most likely original town in the duelist chat:  NJW.  I'd like mech to help me decide there, otherwise not really into voting NJW.  EP is also very likely town.

CM is probably town, some iffy there but I think town.  EJ probably town.

Sal and nqt.  I sus both but maybe better nqt.

I now wonder if we maybe have just 2 maf?  Juice is a pretty darn big maf role.  Given the vote leads... we must hammer to elim.  So maf can ensure no maf can die to elim easier this game than most.

It's not personal to you. I performed an unspecified investigative action and because of it I really must insist everyone claim what they did. You can leave out some of the precise details if you want (e.g. "I used a protect on Magma Mater that also lets me target them with a kill next night if I choose" -> "I protected Magma Mater"), but I have to know what you did.

Hey, pick your townie lie and townie truth.

1) If you got an inspect result of a target of Magma or another corpse, that was not me.  I not-claim that, I didn't mess with corpses last night even if I could, and I do not claim if I could mess with corpses or not.

1) Presuming you made that up, sure.  I accept it as a townie lie, and say, this is a townie lie of my action, "I targeted Magma Mater's corpse last night to trace any abilities that were stolen from it; I'll land a kill on 1 of any persons with them N5."  I also wanna point out in addition to this being a townie lie claim of what I did last night, I still think Verm 'died light'

His flip's got way fewer abilities and weaker ones than we've seen elsewhere.  It's possible he started with 3.  But hey.  maybe he lost some that night to someone else.  If so - was not me.  I don't have them, didn't take them.  But this looks too weak to me to be a plausible complete town role and we know flips show 'at time of death'.

Spoiler: VermilionSkies's Flip (click to show/hide)

Hello VermilionSkies! You chose Pandemic, and you have rolled Town. Please read the game-specific rules before continuing, as it'll make some things in your role easier to understand! Once you've read this role, please confirm via PM or Discord.
Without further ado...

General Abilities

Global Campaign (Genre)
_{It's time to pull up a map. Where are we, and where are we going? The fog of war is thick, but your keen eyes pierce the veil.}
Each player has a location. When a player uses a non-free Personal Ability to visit another player, they travel to where that player was at the start of the night. At the end of each night, including Night 0, you learn each player's location. On Night 0, send me a ranked list of every player in the game, along with your preferred location for them. I will compile the preferences of each player with this ability to determine the starting location of each player. Players closer to the top of your ranked list are more likely to be given your preferred location. The locations are North America, South America, Africa, Eurasia, and Oceania.

Personal Abilities

Research Station (Active)
_{A base of operations will be helpful to contain the plague(s).}
Target yourself. Mark your current location. For the rest of the game, when an ability of yours specifies a location, you may substitute this location.

Dispatch (Active)
_{Quarterbacking? No, it's called winning.}
Target another player and choose a location. That player is moved to that location.

Medic (Passive)
_{While you're here, you might as well cleanse some lepers.}
When you target another player, you will protect all players ending the night at the same location as your target from all of the players who started the night at that location.

Hospital (Passive, Locked)
_{This is a great place to stub your toe.}
You are immune to kills. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.

Factional Abilities

Town (Win Condition)
_{Cheating at a board game is wrong. The only appropriate response is hot-blooded murder.}
You win when all of the mafia have been eliminated.

EP.  if you did something to get info about me, and it's potentially neutral or townie, I urge you consider sitting on it.  Why help maf in any way.  I don't need or want 'more clearance'.  I'm inspected town, I got a job to do, and I got maf to fight.

If you got something on me you think is scummy, we gotta discuss it.  I will likely treat it like I treated Tric's concern that I blocked him from using bugles.  I didn't do that, also, I could not have done exactly that.  Whatever I did or didn't do last night, I think it clearly isn't 'oh that's scummy'.

So, either discuss what's townie or do whatever else you choose.

Maf are listening, and they have a lot of info.

[Elephant Parade]

Imp, please just claim your actions like everyone else. I'm not backing down on this. I will accept something as vague as "I buffed Magma Mater and nerfed Mephansteras" as long as it's a complete and accurate record of the action(s) you performed last night.

(The example was completely made up, hence using the mod's name.)

[EuchreJack]

EJ: Why did you never claim the roleblock on Imp? That's a very strange thing not to claim, especially when juicebox, your other target, claimed being roleblocked.

Imp is Town, so I figured if she wanted to pull some gambit, I would let her.  Also: I did claim that I used the roleblock, I just didn't say it was targeted at Imp.

[Elephant Parade]

EJ: Why did you never claim the roleblock on Imp? That's a very strange thing not to claim, especially when juicebox, your other target, claimed being roleblocked.

Imp is Town, so I figured if she wanted to pull some gambit, I would let her.  Also: I did claim that I used the roleblock, I just didn't say it was targeted at Imp.

That's the problem. It meant that juicebox's claim of being roleblocked N1 rode indefinitely, right up until he was lynched for other reasons.

[Imp]

EJ: Why did you never claim the roleblock on Imp? That's a very strange thing not to claim, especially when juicebox, your other target, claimed being roleblocked.

Imp is Town, so I figured if she wanted to pull some gambit, I would let her.  Also: I did claim that I used the roleblock, I just didn't say it was targeted at Imp.

I had no idea what the poppers did.  I wanted to hide info from maf and believed at that time it was possible.

Because maf know all genre abilities and that's a genre ability, doesn't matter.  But I didn't know that.

I've already claimed I have some sort of immunity/ties.  It's not townie for me to specify at this time.  Let maf waste time probing if they choose to, every action they spend figuring me out, if any, isn't spent on furthering their other dastardly goals.

For all I knew, Jack did something neat to me.  Hard to understand maybe.  Great for maf to not know.

As is, all I'll say is that my gaining the blue vote could actually be build into my role.  It may be time release or something else that isn't affected by a roleblock.  I may have known I wasn't stopped, I may have been stopped, whatever - I got that blue vote and hopefully maf are confused.  Anything else that happened with me N1, not townie to discuss as far as I'm concerned.

[notquitethere]

NQT: in the last scum game Imp was big on OMGUS attacks, in this game she has also been big on OMGUS attacks
Imp: [2000 words] oh my god u suck nqt


Imp, I think this may well be NAI of you, maybe you have rejection sensitivity and get instant tunnel vision on whomever happens to criticise you. Gently, if you are town, take a step back, take a deep breath, and consider who would actually make most sense as juicebox's partners

[notquitethere]

Imp, will withholding information today provide more value than aiding Elephant Parade's scheme?

I started the day thinking you were more likely to be town, but your refusal here is starting to look like you're afraid of getting caught in a lie. Think very carefully about what you're doing here, we don't want a mislynch.

[Imp]

Imp, will withholding information today provide more value than aiding Elephant Parade's scheme?

I started the day thinking you were more likely to be town, but your refusal here is starting to look like you're afraid of getting caught in a lie. Think very carefully about what you're doing here, we don't want a mislynch.

grins

Whose OMGUS?

[Elephant Parade]

Imp, I fibbed when I said it wasn't about you personally. It is, to some extent, about you personally. I really need you to claim your actions. I'm not saying any more than that, and indeed attempted to say less than that, because that's the correct play here. I'm not asking you to reveal the inner workings of your role, just claim what you did last night.