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[Imp]

And Yes.  I considered pop-hammer FoU over this.

I won't.  But those who wagon CM.... are so likely scum.

NQT NJW Juice FoU > CM.

Let's see what comes of CM.

Let's keep CM not elim.

[Imp]

People I'd like dead?
Hyper, Juice, and CM are all on my shortlist of 'people who I want gone.'

Huh,

Verm, why CM?  I tried to check out what you said about/to CrystalizedMire this game before now and came up empty.

Also, in case you just forgot, you're still voting NQT.  You might have reason, dunno.

And yeah, yeah yeah yeah.  But it's only been like 18 hours since he posted that and 16 hours since I asked.  He has been on but that doesn't mean he had time to answer, though townie Verm often does just answer and it feels real.

Surely I don't need to have 'the talk' with Verm over this?  I mean, he's got reasons and meaning and he's all town Verm and it's all good?

That's definitely possible.  He's a pretty townie Verm.

[VermilionSkies]

Hey, hello.
CM isn’t exactly my top priority for hunting, I just don’t like what they’ve done so far.
I would much rather a Juice or Hyper/Sal lynch, but CM is there for completeness’s sake
I didn’t mention FOU because I feel like pushing to hang the only other person who can confirm I’m not making up the List isn’t exactly trustworthy behavior. I’d like them to provide more of substance, though.

Also, Juicebox. I forgot to move my vote off of NQT, and I’d like it somewhere I’m confident in.

[notquitethere]

Or this. Everyone give me a list of people you would like to see lynched. That aren't Elephant cause will trust Jack's word for now. Unvote

Juice
Crystal
Fallacy

[notquitethere]

Imp, I needed to give you an extra level of mistrust and scrutiny because you fooled me in the last game. I knew I had to look past your friendly exterior. I gave an honest impression of how your posts came across to me, I'm sorry it doesn't seem that way to you. I'm not going to litigate this anymore.

Can you succinctly explain your NJW case?


NJW

NQT: What's your plan for the rest of today? You've been very active, but I don't quite think your activity lines up with what you've said you want. There's something odd here.

The plan is to make sure someone gets hammered. So jumping of Fallacy early seems to contradict that goal. My exhortation to Vermillion was really for him to get his act together and vote on a wagon, which has only now happened.

Ok, that's a fairly common scumhunting philosophy.

No, more than that, it's really necessary for this format because without a hammer we have no elimination, so piddly votes all over the place isn't going to cut it. Two wagons would of course be more informative than just one.

Looks like Crystal is your top scumpick, even over FoU.

No, I think Crystal has done nothing to demonstrate that she is town, while Fallacy has done nothing town-like and has also acted shadily at the end of D1. I'm happy with either (or Juice who is like Crystal). Crystal could conceivably be being useless, as I suppose could Juice, worst case, but Fallacy really is pinging my scumdar more.


Elephant Parade

NQT: Who did you suspect going into D2?

I had a pool of people who didn't show enough moxy during the first two thirds of D1: FallacyOfUrist, CrystalizedMire, Hyper, NJW2000, juicebox. Of these, I probably distrusted Hyper and Fallacy more, but I came around a bit on Hyper/Salvatore — at least for now — and came to suspect Crystal and Juice more. NJW, I liked the posts more though I wasn't impressed by the lack of a vote at EOD.

[notquitethere]

FallacyOfUrist, CrystalizedMire, TricMagic, there's about 24 hours left in the day, why aren't you voting yet? Fallacy and Crystal, you both have form for this. Do you want a repeat of D1?

[NJW2000]

NQT: I feel like you mainly quoted the bits where I didn't have a problem and was agreeing with you, and slightly brushed off the main question. I asked if you actually want there to be two wagons. The answer seems to be that you don't want two wagons as much as you want FoU eliminated?

Ok, so FoU is your top pick, which has changed since this readlist. I guess that justifies your vote staying there rather than creating a second wagon. I'd agree - I don't care if who's voting who as long as I kill scum.

Ninja'd:

The plan is to make sure someone gets hammered. So jumping of Fallacy early seems to contradict that goal. My exhortation to Vermillion was really for him to get his act together and vote on a wagon, which has only now happened.

Right... so you didn't want to disrupt the momentum because it was too early for that. But it's the right time now?

[notquitethere]

Right... so you didn't want to disrupt the momentum because it was too early for that. But it's the right time now?

That's right, it's been another 20 hours or so since then and the fallacy wagon is solid, it can happen without me, and Crystal hasn't done anything in the intervening time. Putting some pressure on her now seems more productive use of my vote. My normal approach of voting early and often is in tension here with a desire to maintain a viable wagon so we can actually finish the day productively.

[Imp]

Imp, I needed to give you an extra level of mistrust and scrutiny because you fooled me in the last game. I knew I had to look past your friendly exterior. I gave an honest impression of how your posts came across to me, I'm sorry it doesn't seem that way to you. I'm not going to litigate this anymore.

Can you succinctly explain your NJW case?

Sure.

1) Some of it relates to my mech, it's not time for me to elaborate there.


2) He's playing like he plays when he is maf.  NJW has this tendency as town to walk into the game and start playing; as scum to walk into the game and admire it.  Here ya go, NJW, have fun with this view of your play for your future games.

Evidence:

Spoiler: first posts (click to show/hide)

town CYOS1  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182347.msg8526515#msg8526515

town Heist  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182361.msg8531531#msg8531531

Maf Soviet  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182616.msg8543887#msg8543887

Maf and high stress Net Police:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182656.msg8546065#msg8546065

Town MVM:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182858.msg8564758#msg8564758

This game:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182989.msg8566977#msg8566977

It's not rare for him to make various sorts of claims even from his first post.  It's not sus of him to make specific and strong statements about himself especially in answering questions.  But he's really goal-orientated and I can see the goal.  Highly interactive, typically bold when town.

I'd describe him as 'dominant, almost angry feel'.  Definitely purposeful.  Oh, if town and not lying.  He's a freaking cop, like the kinda cop that walks into a place and takes control.  Even when that's not his role, that's his typical town-feel to me.

As maf, he's very different.  Careful, speculative, kinda chill and a friendly/timid mix in feel.

Spoiler: Examples: (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182616.msg8543918#msg8543918

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182616.msg8543982#msg8543982

Spoiler: next maf game examples: (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182656.msg8546085#msg8546085

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182656.msg8546111#msg8546111

He just doesn't do that hardly ever as town.  He's direct and not mean so much as 'I'm done and finishing this'.

Spoiler: Examples: (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182858.msg8564771#msg8564771

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182858.msg8564824#msg8564824

Spoiler: Older examples: (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182361.msg8531531#msg8531531

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182361.msg8531562#msg8531562

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182347.msg8526569#msg8526569

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182347.msg8526595#msg8526595

This game... he's like 'omg how do I get there from here'.

Spoiler: Examples: (click to show/hide)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182989.msg8566977#msg8566977

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182989.msg8567030#msg8567030

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182989.msg8567070#msg8567070

Seriously.

Look at this.  Here he 'charges' this game, but it's all oopsy-daisy and takesy-backsy.  Even in the vote all nervous.  That's not how he treats me when he thinks I'm maf.  And I ate him last game. Where's his righteous indignation?  You show some of that.... and far less than I expect.  He's... hiding and scared.

How scared?

Spoiler: Look how I challenge him end of day, when there's probably mostly maf votes left to hammer with and he votes me. (click to show/hide)

Oh, I didn't notice Imp taking dormitory. That is... unexpected. Extremely out of character.

Unless scum have taken at least one power from the auction, or magma designed a game 2 scum and 9 town, it is now impossible to hit scum today unless they want us to. Even if there are only two scum votes, it'll take every town player voting correctly to achieve an elim. This is why I wanted to avoid a mad scramble for roles. Seeing as we screwed up this badly, someone should take Sheriff to make it a bit more worthwhile.


I think I like FoU a lot better now they're posting reads and engaging more organically. As scum they tend to post a lot about things that have happened in the thread without actually giving reads. I was worried that was happening, but it isn't.

Unvote.

I was going to be annoyed at CM because they took smithy when I wasn't sure about their alignment, but CM would totally just take smithy as town, so that's NAI. Still wondering if this is part of an evil auctioneer master plan though, and do still want them to answer my question.

I am allowed to chew through my post count cause I saved it up to end of day. NJW why would it be bad for us if we don't leave the Auction alone?

And then you go tell Jack publicly to make themselves unlynchable for some reason. What's your game? Is it Mafia-Ally?

Because if people buy enough items to get to sheriff in one day, the elimination will be decided by a small minority of players. Or it becomes impossible to elim scum. Probably has already happened. I really hope you can stop thinking about roles long enough to see why that puts us at a disadvantage.

As for Jack, I'm townreading him and would have liked to see him take smithy so scum couldn't take it.


Even if it's impossible to elim mafia, it is worth trying to see who is willing to vote who. So not giving up yet.

Juicebox seems a bit less distant, though I'm still interested in the elim. I can't read Hyper still, though they're actually playing now.

But good lord do I need to see an explanation for something. Usually there's a lot of words behind anything Imp does, but this time...

This is bugging me so much.

But it feels right.  Here's to hats and gyms and recognizing wonder and the unknown when it passes near:  Dormitory

Imp, what on earth happened here? Did I miss you talking about this, or is it literally just to help CM?

Hi, scared scum!

I still flip town.  And the rest of town can solve without me.

You may not want me flipped.  Ever.

You may really not want me flipped early.

If you're town, what a freaking shame.  But town can solve this even if they lose you too.  And I do not think you are town.

I explained my reasoning.  Walked through the game.

Need me to list the posts for you where it was discussed?

Oh, I can.  But can you read?

Clicking on my name, bringing up my recent posts, highlighting 'dorm' on control f.  My whole "Imp taking dormitory. That is... unexpected. Extremely out of character."

It's been discussed repeatedly as I walked up to the decision.

If you're pfp or something.  I'll walk back the snideness.  But I don't think you missed my train of thought and discussions about it.

I think you're just attempting to justify why you and others will hammer me today.

I hope the reveal of my flip finishes burning you guys and cements town without needing further town flips.

And what does town him do?  Probably finish taking my head.  Especially after I fooled him last game.

Spoiler: What does maf him do?  Probably this and this: (click to show/hide)

Imp - Fine - I’ll have a look through your posts, though I’d note that your last post was long enough to state any reasons

To be perfectly honest, skimming most of what you write is the only way I can play after an exhausting and pointless misunderstanding took hours of my life in the CYOS game. There’s a lot of largely irrelevant summaries of old games (or Imp’s role in them), and other excesses that I’d be tempted to describe as verbal diarrhoea. I’m going to miss stuff.

Ninja:Imp
Also, lynching the guy who used their vote to buy a bed for the night is extremely off.

You really think we’re going to arrange a hammer in four hours? I would be astonished by anything other than a no-elim. My vote stands if I’m not satisfied with the explanation by the end of D2. Today, it can only tell me who scum refuse to kill.

NINJA'd, posting anyway.

@Imp - so you wanted it to help CM and because you think there might be something special about an empty power. You've made close to 40 posts, and I missed like two posts where you mentioned that you were thinking about it.

{broken for my own spoiler needs:spoiler= Imp talking about wanting but at this point not REALLY wanting dorm]

There's something weird about Tachyon (from Mater's flip) and Dormitory (from auction); they both... do nothing in a consuming of resources way.  Dorm's even worse than Tach; Tach at least gives its consumed slot back.  Dorm appears to eat the vote and get off the list but that's it.  Thing is I don't have any mech telling me why this stuff is special, but it jingles and jangles at my mind like... the BYOS2 game's 'get the hat, go to the gym, do what you can and you just might live!' of my D2/N2 where... random events, other players' choices, and unexpected changes that nobody (well, mod?  bows thankfully to NQT) set up made me res from my infection.

None of that directly applies here but I suspect that there's more to Tachyon and dorm than meets the eye and a tiny bit of me thinks having the dorm might work out - but I don't know how or to whose benefit and I'm guessing at the pattern we are shown.  So I don't really want the dorm.  And I would like to keep my vote to use D1 and I am quite interested in the Sheriff's office which clearly has use.  But we'll see who does what moving forward.

[/spoiler}

That you'd give up your vote, at a crucial moment, because you think there's a secret that has to do with empty powers is insane. Unless it's actually a breadcrumb for a very weird role that requires that, but I don't think so.

...

I don't think that's something that's worth pressuring you on. Getting caught up on a random aspect of the mechanics that does nothing is exactly the kind of thing you're given to doing.

I do think giving up your vote (and quite possibly the elim) for that reason was an impressively terrible idea.

Ok, unvote, you had talked about it before.

I don't even know at this point. I'm not sure if I'd be okay with any elim.

He knows I flip town.  And... the heck shows when I flip?  That's a very brave claim for town me to make if he knows he is maf and he knows I am town.

Town him who doesn't know if I'm town and thinks I'm maybe/probably maf?

"Let's see that flip".  But there's no sign of that.  Instead he jerks his vote back like his fingers got burned.

He's a maf with a good role.   Let's flip it!

[Imp]

@Imp
 I'm not as suspicious of Elephant Parade as I was D1, I think they've been doing a reasonable job of trying to decipher what happened N1, and pushing cases.

That's interesting because in my own mind I've been much more passive today. Could you explain in greater detail?

Juice hasn't answered yet.

Want on the record because I was typing a longer... reaction... to this when I saw EP had asked.

It's probably nice to hear what Juice says about this.  I have some observations that make me go huh? and keep Juice very deep in my 'PDND' (Probably does need to die) pile but sure, I'd like to hear his greater detail, it cannot worsen my read of him.

[TricMagic]

Or this. Everyone give me a list of people you would like to see lynched. That aren't Elephant cause will trust Jack's word for now. Unvote

Juice
Crystal
Fallacy

Well there is an easy way to solve one of those. FallacyofUrist

[Elephant Parade]

That's L-1, I believe

[Imp]

Or this. Everyone give me a list of people you would like to see lynched. That aren't Elephant cause will trust Jack's word for now. Unvote

Juice
Crystal
Fallacy

Well there is an easy way to solve one of those. FallacyofUrist

Sick of our talk and want the day over fast as possible, Tric?  Think we ready for day end?

I don't.

[FallacyofUrist]

Hm, so I have a dillema.

I'm probably going to be executed. (Amusingly, this means my town meta is being detached and my mafia meta is being engaged, which is the opposite of the norm.)

If I share the list of who started in what location, it'll keep Verm from falsifying the list later if he's scum.

However, it would make it easier for scum to fakeclaim, which would hurt Verm's ability to catch them in lies if he's town.

Thoughts?

[Imp]

Hm, so I have a dillema.

I'm probably going to be executed. (Amusingly, this means my town meta is being detached and my mafia meta is being engaged, which is the opposite of the norm.)

If I share the list of who started in what location, it'll keep Verm from falsifying the list later if he's scum.

However, it would make it easier for scum to fakeclaim, which would hurt Verm's ability to catch them in lies if he's town.

Thoughts?

I believe this is our vote count.  NQT moved to CM, so I think FoU is actually L-2 still.  Colors are my rough sus range, purp is intermediate and teal's my -vote.

(4)FoU: Jack, NJW, Elephant, Salvatore Monday, Tric -Imp,
(2)CM: Juice, NQT
(1)EP: 
(1)NJW: Imp
(1)Juicebox: VermilionSkies

Not voting
FallacyOfUrist, CrystalizedMire

If I manage to restrain my urge to save CM at any cost.  One of which means for today is allow early hammer of FoU to help prevent other shenanigans.  But I don't want FoU dead today (want someone else dead) and I am not deeply sure FoU is maf (seems likely, but that would suck to early hammer and FoU flips town.  I would not like that feeling, I can imagine it.)  And maybe the suspicious and the scum of the game don't unite to whale on CM.

I think there's more time, though I'm twitchy too.

FoU, you gotta decide on that reveal.

I can tell you that I was not told where I started.  Like, not "Imp, you start on B2." type of... So I don't personally know if it is even something to maybe catch maf in lies about or not.  I got to see my role and among my questions to the mod before confirming actually was 'so, do I start in a location?' and got told what.  And when the game started, I asked, "Do I know what my location is?" and I got told something that was not a location.

So, I am in a ongoing confusion about what locations are and what the range of them may be.  Teach me to submit 'Wonderboy' as a character, means I gotta have stuff to wonder about?  I wonder.

This CM stuff.

Mech I have says CM's claims are plausible.

CM's acting reasonably similar to how NQT himself acted in Max's Supernormal.

I was cool with it then while scum tried to dig him out.  I was playing hide the human there.

Let's declare CM a human doing some important town job and stop trying to elim CM.