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[Crystalizedmire]

Don't take Butchery or someone else will have to take Smithy to prevent last-minute shenanigans, and I don't think anyone is universally townread enough to justly do that (though I personally would be okay with NJW doing it -- they're my strongest townread at the moment, with my only beef being a setup focus that can be justified by (a) everyone else doing it (b) the lack of other things to talk about until just recently)

Okay, got it. I agree with your read of NJW.

If all the auction items are taken off, then the quicker it is for me to kill an anti-town.

... CrystalizedMire.  For sure?  Not just kill, but kill a maf is your claim you can for sure do? For rules say we don't have any other kinda anti-town?  I wouldn't probe this but you just claimed it.  If we believe you even slightly you have a whole bunch of eager town plotting your success and survival.  However, I cannot tonight protect someone other than myself, so I cannot urge you not to take that butchery and I don't know what to recommend.

I have no idea how much claiming you wanna do about this.  Or if you feel so sure you die quick that protection is meaningless, use this shot now and help get there.  At a guess you don't get to do this again though so....

However, I would note that my kill would happen at n5 at minimum. That might not be worth it.

[notquitethere]

We're approaching the 24-hours-until-EOD marker, so we should probably start thinking about making our mind up. I think the auction might best work if we start acting more unilaterally: getting everyone to agree ahead of time to a plan is harder than enacting a plan and getting enough people together as you go.

More than that, there is one thing I can do in this game that will give me more information than anything else at this point...

Butchery

• Darkroom (Passive)
  _{Nobody can see you in here. It's a good place to lie low.}
  You are immune to investigative abilities. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Butchery (Passive)
  _{A little creepy. Many of the tools here are used to dissect animals. Hopefully they don't turn against you.}
  You are immune to protective abilities. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Smithy (Passive)
  _{The armour here will make you positively unhoistable.}
  You are immune to lynches. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Dormitory (Passive)
  _{A nice place to doze off for a while, if you don't mind the bedbugs.}
  This does nothing. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Hospital (Passive)
  _{This is a great place to stub your toe.}
  You are immune to kills. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Sheriff's Office (Active, Free)
  _{The sheriff needs a new deputy. Will you answer the call?}
  Target any player. You will learn their Faction. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  

Juicebox, Imp and Elephant Parade have all expressed an interest in joining the auction, and so they should do so. Are you going to race to get the Smithy?

Scum will want to grab Sheriff's Office themselves... but they'll also be aware that whoever takes it is themselves likely to be investigated. This could all get very interesting...

[Imp]

We're approaching the 24-hours-until-EOD marker, so we should probably start thinking about making our mind up. I think the auction might best work if we start acting more unilaterally: getting everyone to agree ahead of time to a plan is harder than enacting a plan and getting enough people together as you go.

More than that, there is one thing I can do in this game that will give me more information than anything else at this point...

Butchery

• Darkroom (Passive)
  _{Nobody can see you in here. It's a good place to lie low.}
  You are immune to investigative abilities. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Butchery (Passive)
  _{A little creepy. Many of the tools here are used to dissect animals. Hopefully they don't turn against you.}
  You are immune to protective abilities. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Smithy (Passive)
  _{The armour here will make you positively unhoistable.}
  You are immune to lynches. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Dormitory (Passive)
  _{A nice place to doze off for a while, if you don't mind the bedbugs.}
  This does nothing. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Hospital (Passive)
  _{This is a great place to stub your toe.}
  You are immune to kills. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  
• Sheriff's Office (Active, Free)
  _{The sheriff needs a new deputy. Will you answer the call?}
  Target any player. You will learn their Faction. This ability becomes locked at the start of the next day.
  

Juicebox, Imp and Elephant Parade have all expressed an interest in joining the auction, and so they should do so. Are you going to race to get the Smithy?

Scum will want to grab Sheriff's Office themselves... but they'll also be aware that whoever takes it is themselves likely to be investigated. This could all get very interesting...

Oh neat.

I have a bigger post ready to go, but I'll delay and watch fireworks.

No, I'm not after smithy.

I'm hoping I can remain a voter on the elim, but I am very interested in whomever takes the sheriff's office, and might take that one... maybe.

However, I would note that my kill would happen at n5 at minimum. That might not be worth it.

Do we have to clear the auction today, or can it run over multiple days?  I presume you need to be alive to have it keep running?

Feel free to say 'townie secret' or any form of that.  But info you're willing to share that you think could help town... to call me 'all ears' is an understatement.

[NJW2000]

It looks like people have decided to keep quiet about the thing I said I'd talk about at some point. So I won't talk about it today unless a thing happens towards the end of the day that makes it necessary to talk about. I'm aware this sounds like complete nonsense to a lot of players, but if so, just don't worry about it.

@EP: maybe on a different day when there's more consensus, but I think that that's not going to work today because we're nowhere near an agreed elim target. It'll devolve into chaos, and that's pretty much always going to work well for scum.


Ok, initial reads. We have a fairly short space of time left, need to start looking properly. I suggest everyone have a go at a reread at this point, if you haven't already.



Town
EuchreJack - as I said, scum!EJ is nervy and careful while town!EJ is aggressive and chaotic. This looks like town!EJ.
TricMagic - they're extremely given to D1 claims and sacrifices as town. They just lot their vote by taking Darkroom and announced a night action. If this is scum!Tric, they're being coached extraordinarily well.
Elephant Parade - just a town lean because they're a long term forum vet that I shouldn't feel confident reading. But so far today, they've been helpful and engaged, as well as a bit more conversational than by-the-book scumhunters like EP dare to be as mafia. I completely disagree with their idea that there's a way to safely trade half our votes for an inspect and a (claimed) vig, but I don't often agree with EP.



Conflicted
Imp - my gut says town-Imp, and I read them perfectly based on tone last game. So if I'm sticking to my process and trusting my intuition where it's worked, town. But a lot of their behaviour is non-town, like a seven hundred word response to EP voting them. Maybe this is unfortunately consistent with Imp's play in general, but there comes a point. Same for the votes without asking difficult questions or trying to present a case on me... feels like they'd decided to do their best to push me out from the get-go. Though again, Imp with a gut feeling and no new ideas is just going to state the gut feeling repeatedly.
Hm.
There's a kind of egotism in assuming I can perfectly tone read a longtime mafia player, but on the other hand, I just think my reads based on tone are usually right, which would make them town?

CrystallizedMire - this is largely a meta read. But this just doesn't look like the previous D1s I've played with her. For example, in the MVM game, there was a bit of a tendency to pick up on other people's ideas and ask some slightly obvious questions, from which I read her correctly as unconfident town. I mean, she's playing better - I like the absence of less interesting questions and the independent takes. I enjoy the lucid and confident posts, and do think CM is on the way to being a strong and unconventional player, so I feel a bit bad posting this. But today just seems a bit outside her meta.

As for claiming a kill that unlocks when the auction is finished - to be honest, I could see crystal doing that as scum, especially with someone strong coaching her.


Null
Hyper - they've said a small amount. I don't think I can read them based on that much. It looks like they're not entirely following how the auction works, which would be unusual for a scum player, but NAI. An elim here might lead to information, but I'm willing to hold off on it for now based on later posts.
VermillionSkies - really wants to keep Tric alive and don't have much else to say. I guess if Imp is town I'd be inclined to trust their Vermometer, but that's just because I'm lazy.
Juicebox - yeah, I dunno. Juicebox has an extremely neutral tone every game I've seen. They've done one post replying to very early questions, and not adding or asking anything. This is null, but it's the kind of null where you just shrug and elim them if they haven't made more of a contribution at the end of the day.



Scum
FallacyofUrist - slightly lean scum, some of it tone and some for reasons I'd rather not go into right now. More observation needed.
NQT - scum. Because they're being very, very quiet and not rocking the boat. Voting someone who's been low-activity is an extremely uncontroversial move, and it's been their only move so far. Having been on a scumteam with them, this notquitelurking was exactly their strategy D1, and they're very good at it. If they do indeed kick things up a gear as they promise to, I'd change this read. And I'm happy saying that, because I genuinely don't think they will. I think they'd gamble on being able to fade into the shadows D1 despite a few players getting a meta read on them for it.

I know that not everyone will see this, as they haven't played with NQT as often or as closely I have. But right now, NQT is the closest thing to a sure thing.

NINJA: Well fuck me, he started a mad scramble to give away votes for powers. Ok, this isn't a classic scum!NQT lurking through D1 at all. I don't know if I trust it, but I'll have to reconsider the above.



I really suggest people do not buy everything today. Not only do I not entirely trust CM, it's very likely that losing even 4 town votes in one day hands the elim to scum, or at the very least leads to a no-elim. I'd remind you that vigs aren't actually that pro-town, statistically speaking, so even if CM does get the kill there's no guarantee it's going to help.

CrystallizedMire: do you feel different this game compared to the D1 of the MVM we were just in? If so, why?

EuchreJack: I'm very comfortable with you taking smithy if you want.

Everyone else: keep your grubby mitts off that power or it'll be the worse for you tomorrow.

[Elephant Parade]

Elephant Parade - just a town lean because they're a long term forum vet that I shouldn't feel confident reading. But so far today, they've been helpful and engaged, as well as a bit more conversational than by-the-book scumhunters like EP dare to be as mafia. I completely disagree with their idea that there's a way to safely trade half our votes for an inspect and a (claimed) vig, but I don't often agree with EP.

Not criticism, but it's funny to me that people keep calling me a vet when I have fewer games under my belt than nearly anyone here.

EuchreJack - as I said, scum!EJ is nervy and careful while town!EJ is aggressive and chaotic. This looks like town!EJ.

How would you describe CYOS2's scum!EJ, if you're willing to glance at that game?

[Elephant Parade]

Juicebox, Imp and Elephant Parade have all expressed an interest in joining the auction, and so they should do so. Are you going to race to get the Smithy?

Recall that my interest was conditional:

I would be willing to participate in the plan I outlined or some other plan if I thought it was good. I also might be willing to buy an ability near the end of the day if my ability [ebwop: vote] didn't seem likely to affect the outcome of the execution. I'm not interested in buying Butchery right this second because, as I explained to CM, it would mean someone would have to buy Smithy.

[notquitethere]

NJW, I agree entirely that lurking and safe votes is a good D1 scum strategy. That would have been a fair read. As it happens, I've just not been very well the last few days (much better as of today!), but that would be an easy lie for someone to make so you shouldn't take that at face value.

Anyway, while I would be happy for you to take a power today — I like your post, you've demonstrated you should live another day — perhaps you should be one of the EOD voters.


Imp

1. I'd like Sheriff's Office if nobody else should have it
2. I'm also interested in being able to vote to elim today
3. I want the auction to happen

If you want the auction to happen (3), then you should join the auction. Of course you want Sheriff's Office but: A. if you're town then I remind you this is a team game and it's important that someone inspects more than it being you to do it; B. if you're scum then of course you want to grab it!

If you're serious about the auction happening then put your vote where your mouth is.


Elephant Parade

Recall that my interest was conditional

We're entering the last third of the day. Do you have a case to push? Or are you going to help us get to the Sheriff's Office? If you end up not using your vote usefully today, I shan't be impressed.

[Elephant Parade]

juicebox, Hyper: Neither of you have posted enough for me to get any kind of read on you, which means I'd be perfectly willing to execute either one of you today. Please fix this!

juicebox: Who is your top scumpick, and who are their most and least likely partners?
Hyper:

FIRST AND FOREMOST:
apologies for lack of activity. recently had a problem come up from the beginning of when i originally entered my in, but dealt with it. some small aftermath delayed me from my devices for 2 days, leading to this. anyways, im here now.

Hyper: Which players, if any, have you formed reads on?

give me an hour and i’ll send another message with some of my probing thoughts.

This did not happen. If it was because the problem came back up, that's fine. Otherwise, why not?

VermillionSkies: What's your read of Imp?

Elephant Parade

Recall that my interest was conditional

We're entering the last third of the day. Do you have a case to push? Or are you going to help us get to the Sheriff's Office? If you end up not using your vote usefully today, I shan't be impressed.

Have I not been pushing a case this entire time? And giving up my vote 26 hours before the deadline seems like a bad idea to me, especially when I could just as easily (if not as certainly) do it 26 minutes before the deadline.

[notquitethere]

Have I not been pushing a case this entire time?

This is fair, you have an edge on almost every other player in the game in that you're actually using your vote. If you want an Imp lynch, convince two other players who still have a vote that she's the one that needs to go.

And giving up my vote 26 hours before the deadline seems like a bad idea to me, especially when I could just as easily (if not as certainly) do it 26 minutes before the deadline.

This is you not thinking like a team player. If we want to get someone to have the sherrif's office power, then trying to arrange that at the last moment seems like a very risky plan.

[Elephant Parade]

Have I not been pushing a case this entire time?

This is fair, you have an edge on almost every other player in the game in that you're actually using your vote. If you want an Imp lynch, convince two other players who still have a vote that she's the one that needs to go.

And giving up my vote 26 hours before the deadline seems like a bad idea to me, especially when I could just as easily (if not as certainly) do it 26 minutes before the deadline.

This is you not thinking like a team player. If we want to get someone to have the sherrif's office power, then trying to arrange that at the last moment seems like a very risky plan.

That's reasonable. However: to me, executing her today is less important than generating a solid base of content that can be used to read everyone, so I don't want to focus too much on Imp, who has already received far more attention, from me and in general, than anyone else in the game. (Doubly so because I would be perfectly OK lynching FoU over Imp, along with the lurkers if they don't get posting in time for me to form a read.) For now, I have left my vote and made my argument; I'll push or revisit it as required.

I see where you're coming from, but giving up my vote now would reduce town's voteshare and rhetorical power for the rest of the day, which to me eclipses the risk of nobody getting the good powers today if I leave it too late/don't buy at all. Perhaps a few hours in advance would be more reasonable?

[VermilionSkies]

EP: Imp this game is... honestly, NAI for me.
They're willing to throw out reads like that regardless of what faction they're in, from what I've seen, and walls of texts aren't uncommon either.
That said, I think they're playing more like CYOM or CYOS2 Imp than MVM Imp this game. Mild townlean, maybe?

I'd like a little more than what we have from Juicebox. Same with Hyper, but I like what they've put out more than what Juice has.
Fair warning, if the Hospital opens up I'm grabbing it. It's too valuable to not take.

EP feels townlean to me. At least, enough so that I wouldn't have too many grievances with them taking the Smithy.

[Elephant Parade]

EP: Imp this game is... honestly, NAI for me.
They're willing to throw out reads like that regardless of what faction they're in, from what I've seen, and walls of texts aren't uncommon either.
That said, I think they're playing more like CYOM or CYOS2 Imp than MVM Imp this game. Mild townlean, maybe?

I'd like a little more than what we have from Juicebox. Same with Hyper, but I like what they've put out more than what Juice has.
Fair warning, if the Hospital opens up I'm grabbing it. It's too valuable to not take.

EP feels townlean to me. At least, enough so that I wouldn't have too many grievances with them taking the Smithy.

Could you explain this in more specific terms, and ideally -- but not necessarily; I know sometimes it's just impossible to get a fix on someone -- reach a read that, however weak, doesn't end in a question mark?

[VermilionSkies]

I'm going to be entirely honest, my main towntell for Imp so far is willingness to type a lot.
They get very passionate as town, as it shows up as walls of text, which I'm seeing a lot of here, and didn't see nearly as much of, looking back in retrospective of MVM.
I don't have enough of anything else to be willing to put it up as official reasoning.

[Imp]

Oh gods.

This is awful because I really enjoy playing beside NJW this game.

My history with NJW and reading him each game:

Spoiler: Jan 29 2024 CYOS1: We meet!  We're town! (click to show/hide)

  He's town with a set of cool protective abilities that he doesn't have complete info about and this 'second wincon: would also have won if last town player left standing'.  He makes a claim about being able to handle maf kills... and I use that heavily in my plans and schemes.  I don't really enjoy how he plays... he's greasy (his claim isn't as strong as it could be... all his play's reasonable, it's just... slippery and he wants out - very reasonably) and I need him not out.  It worked that particular game, he lived to the end and the maf even chose not to try and kill one night, perhaps because of the shenanigans and the odds that we have a trap made if they did try.

Spoiler: Feb 2024 Mafia Heist:  We meet again as both town! (click to show/hide)

  I'm town with the most sus role ever and Qua goes down in flames as solo maf and a self-hammer D1 with 'Imp is my not-partner for sure town' heebiee jeebies.  NJW is town, and seems to panicked me my only hope of salvation.

Hmm...

Not much time and about to go to bed, posting after one read-through.

Imp seems panicky but I'm honestly not sure if I can read them. Still don't trust Max but the mechanical evidence is on his side. Strong showing from Oliverz but not enough to conclude they're town, just that they're a pretty decent player.

Need to read through again to actually understand this, will have to wait for ~9 hours, sorry about that.

Please don't hammer in my absence.

He can't control Oliver... or the other 3 voters on me.  Hammered dead I flip town... NJW and others do a decent job picking up the pieces while anti-town Crystal is set to win until the pre-victory villanous monolog event.  I like NJW's play better here, smoother than CYOS - granted he's not holding a gun to his own head with me saying 'don't you dare put that down' and while staring at a tempting second wincon that goes out the water if he dies.

Spoiler: May 2024 Soviet Mafia:  We meet again!  This time neither of us is town... (click to show/hide)

 and NJW feels to me smooth as silk, semi-in control and non-offensive as heck.  This is a man with a plan and it's not to offend anyone.  I'm not patient with scared/aggressive townies and have some Spin-given power to flex, and I like NJW a lot this game... it's messy and NJW and I win, so sorry townies.  But NJW felt great to play beside.

Spoiler: July 2024 Net Police:  NJW is mafia and knows it; worse... (click to show/hide)

 he's mafia that knows if he dies mafia loses even though he has a partner.  What he doesn't know is town can win with him... and will lose with him.  Annoyingly town doesn't know this either... and I'm town.

I'm not totally cool with NJW, but NJW could be town.  Weird feels, thoughts, responses; that could all be town.  In comparison to this JB-CM mess, sure looks townie.

A bit later, and some still fairly smooth but don't fully make sense or lead towards what I see as townie directions posts from NJW:

NJW weirds me out with apparent trouble following the chaos?  Or attempts to misguide interpretation of the chaos?  I don't know but NJW is small potatoes/a different problem if NJW is a problem, I really can't tell.  If I'm not around or get my mind changed I'll say it now, I'm scared about NJW also being a problem because the way NJW appears to be not following/tracking clues looks weird and wrong to me.  But maybe I just need more time with NJW when we're both town, for sure CYOS I was 100% torn between 'NJW is gonna save us all, just follow the plan you proposed, NJW' and 'Okay, lying NJW is clearly scum and must die fast'.  Instead he was semi-honest town and trying to play within his own knowledge sphere which wasn't big and tried pretty hard to help town too.  Maybe here as well.  But honorary 'town maybe, and maybe really town' to me.  If green's gonna win we probably have time to sort out NJW's townieness, I think we need JB dead D2 and not much else matters; if I'm wrong it's probably CM we need dead.  With luck we don't also need NJW dead and all's good and townie.

I help lead the D2 elim on NJW's partner, NJW takes me out that night.  Sadly, there's an entire team of SK, with their own chat even... Town and maf lose.

My final thought about it after the game:

Honestly, NJW2000, you should have just been open about it. d1 I thought you were a good guy, and I understood the mafia being town flavor, I'm guessing at least Imp did too. We could have formed a voting bloc.

I didn't catch that maf and town were one, but I get 'bastard game' and 'you have no idea'.  I caught that I didn't see a wincon for me; heck I was open to being green and not town.

I could have been convinced to try stuff.

Egan and Juice were so cagy it confused/scared me.  AP and CM also super concerned me.  Max, Sofa, and barely NJW looked fine in comparison; I was more worried about NJW than Max or Sofa for sure.

But that was a weird and twisty game...

Pretty sure what happened was beacause of me and AP's wincon was to kill NJW. Our wincon aparently took priority over town's even though we're told that we'd still win if we're dead.

Honestly, NJW2000, you should have just been open about it. d1 I thought you were a good guy, and I understood the mafia being town flavor, I'm guessing at least Imp did too. We could have formed a voting bloc.

Yeah, I didn’t clock that my death meant the end of town as well.Was pretty convinced that I was just standard mafia.

Interesting twist, looking at the game. Very weird…

What matters is NJW thought he was maf, thought he had 1 partner and he must not die, and thought he needed to fool and take out town.  And he handled that stress and was smooth and cool and feels-right to me for the most part.

Spoiler: October 2024 Mostly Vanilla Maf:  Here I'm maf and NJW is town: (click to show/hide)

  He does pick me out right away, he happens to be right (will he always be?  Not my concern this game).  I thought he had a likely power role and he did, he was jack of all trades and had several power role 1-shots.  He also was incredibly useful to kill, but I mostly wanted him out because he felt power role to me.  To be fair, the roles that game were on the weak side, but that's what I was reading for.  I have to go back now and reread if I would like him had I been town ... I don't think so.  He's pretty unsure, he does feel more like he did in Heist than in CYOS (where he had a high pressure town role and was lying and at huge risk) but he doesn't have the smooth and the power-feel and the leader-feel that I love when he has been maf.  He's... there's a difference.  And part of me wants to fall into line and just follow anti-town NJW... lead me, I can tell you know where you are going.

None of that applies to the MVM game - I'm not playing normal myself there because I'm maf and all that means.

Spoiler: So, what about this game: (click to show/hide)

  But I like and want to follow NJW this game.  And I associate my reactions to NJW's posts and style and feel to how I respond to anti-town NJW than I do pro-town NJW.

NJW, on the plus side, I love your maf side and if you use that more as town, I'll be confused and may ML you for it as I get adjusted... but I'd like it, it's a great direction to go if you wanna, I'd be cool with it.

Are we seeing this known-town NJW now?

NJW, his focus on pursuing Imp feels overly aggressive to me. perhaps he’s justified and im missing something, but it seems almost disproportionate(?) to the people he could be spreading his attention across.

I mean, I'd like it on the record that this has been a very quiet D1, and I'm not particularly happy with the state of play. I'm gambling on a very slight edge from a small shift in vibes from Imp, because most people haven't given us pressure, content or even many posts, possibly due to forum issues. I do usually complain about long D1 threads... but that's because they've been like 50 pages in some recent games. There's not much to read from here, and I specialise in picking up on small details.

That said, who is it that I could be proportionately spreading my attention towards, regarding scumhunting? Because I've seen one read on Tric from you. If other people have put content out there to merit reads or questions, it'd be worth hearing who.

Crystalizedmire, on current trajectory, I don't trust at LYLO, let's put pressure on now and see what happens.

Honestly, I'd consider an elim if we only get one D1 post out of them.


Hmm... is this the patented NQT "fade into the shadows" D1?

I don't think so. It's not content-heavy, but he's asked some fun questions, risked picking a fight with Imp, and started a late wagon on a lurker. Good NQT.

That awesome reads list for this game.  The way NJW feels to me and the way I wanna respond.  I think this is anti-town NJW and I am very, very sorry I think/feel that because I wanna just follow.  But that's not my wincon as far as I know; this is probably NJW-anti-town.  And... I know this part of myself that says 'follow' pretty well.  IRL I coined the phrase, 'come and be killed calling' - I sometimes pick harm-intending folks out of crowds as they look for a victim, part of me wants to walk up to them and stare and follow.  Like they're calling for someone to come and be killed.  I don't wanna die... but omg the way that 'call' feels.  Follow that like water flowing downhill, if I don't stop myself.

That said, I like him, he's talking plenty and active.  I've said my piece, others after D1 can pick up the pieces regardless of if I'm here or not.  I think he's probably a good elim today.  I tended to have trouble as town picking out likely power roles, I tried to damp that down because I was tending to elim town power roles... but scum can have greater and weaker power roles too, and I'm concerned about NJW being the right maf to elim first too (as web was in CYOS, as 4maskwolf was in BYOMonster; I don't always catch the OMG stop that now! vibe... but I have... and that fits into 'come and be killed calling' too - and is also something I can be wrong about).

I'd like to be wrong?  As I said in FBYOR6 when I was instead of reads, saying who I wanted to see alive the next day?  I like NJW a lot and other than that 'but he's the maf gonna kill us all?' issue/concern/certainty/delusion/worry I would be glad to have him here all game.  And the rest of me stares at that part of me and shouts, "OMG elim NJW now!!!"

So! I'm super curious to see the flips once game is over.

And guys... whatever happens later in the game.  Consider at least investigating NJW or something?  And remember... one way to own the night is to be safe even if investigated.  All the protections from actions Mater's flip show... potential to get for a townie.  How safe must our maf be, to 'own the night' and have a better than 50% chance to win, our mod thinks, if actions are taken randomly?

[Imp]

And this is what I was gonna post before I saw NQT had taken the auction item, spoilered for length but leaving the locations out of spoiler because I wanna.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm much less concerned than EP states he is about who gets smithy.

Theoretically, whomever gets what from the auction, it's locked after N1 (or whatever night they get it), never usable again unless someone has some unlock ability outside of it that would work on it.

So, whomever 'intended elim is' snatches smithy, means someone else is the D1 elim and 'intended elim' is probably the D2 elim.

Potential problems include:

- Maybe someone can unlock 1+ of these for themself or someone else, meaning some 1+ people can use it multiple times.

- Maybe someone can take special actions on those who take 1+ of these auctioned rooms --- I'd think 'Oh, CrystalizedMire would be the only concern about that' except there apparently are locations based on what some of you have said, which are really not a key part of my board game, yet my role has something to do with from its creation - so other people who don't have something as a native part of their boardgame may indeed be able to interface with others just like I can.

- For sure a flip shows a townie who could steal an ability name.

So, someone who can target those with dormitory-related abilities or inherently non-functioning abilities (I notice the flip of Mater and the to-me eerie similarity of the Tachyon, which uses an upgrade space to give 1 extra upgrade space - sort of 'does nothing' in a more complicated way and sticks out because nothing else looks even a little like that, except for the auction's dormitory), someone who can target those who gained abilities, someone who can unlock/unlock the name of abilities they know - I suspect meta stuff like that may well be in play and I don't know the exact form it may take.


But we can time the votability of smithy.  Anyone voting on whatever is very visible; any behind the scenes planned 'coincidences' - we at least get to see the play out happen.

I think the auction itself is probably either delightfully townie and something we should make happen for all the cool town downstream effects and all the info it reveals - like if there's 3 maf and they manage to all have votes for D1 left after the auction's traded out - then they control the elim D1, but probably not after.  This does have the real risk of them getting control of the D1 elim and then doing their N1 kill, but the downstream effects and all the info revealed may be worth this - and we may be able to laugh at how obvious that might make team maf and handle the game just fine after that point.

Or the auction is solid scum, a disadvantage in some ways for those who take parts of it.  I kinda don't think so... this is a day auction and town... well remember the timing goals of our mod:

3. The mafia should feel confident that they own the night phase. In my mind, this means that they should not be caught be a role action that they could not prevent. An unblockable cop would be a simple example of something I wouldn't include. It isn't uncommon for the mafia to be given notes at the start of the game so that they know what to expect. See also, rule 1. Also, see rule 2.
4. The town should feel confident that they own the day phase. Things like mafia hidden double-voters only serve to frustrate the town, taking away what should be their main weapon against the mafia. See rule 1 again.
5. If both sides act randomly, the mafia should win ~55% of the time. Obviously, this is difficult to achieve in a role madness game, but this is the aim. The town should have to work for their win.

I have some issue with that maf own the night thing.  We see the town flip of Mater.  And we each see our own roles - mine is town so I have no idea what a maf role looks like in this game.  But I see elements of similarity between Mater's flip and my own role, it's vague but there.  And there's elements that suggest that Maf's 'ownership of the night' could be threatened.

So, I think maf roles might be exceptionally powerful and very key-in-lock and immune to various things.  Able to block unblockable; able to survive 1+ kill attempts, able to target multiple players, able to multiaction - we see a dead townie with all of that except blocking unblockable.  Why wouldn't maf have... even more.  Maf own the night how?  I think we should be pretty careful about that.  Maf are probably soup-masters in this game and have special meta stuff above and beyond what we can see town has, from the town flip and whatever role we see.

And CrystalizedMire's auction thingy... kinda gets in the way of town owning the day, unless the auction comes from a town player and has other reasons why it's cool for town, which likely also give some advantages to the mafia but more to town.

And presuming we can keep control over the day vote, I think the patterns that get revealed might be useful.

I don't really agree with the

If the executee is Town then they should go along with it because them being executed with a cleared auction block is better for Town than them being executed without. If the executee is scum... Hmm

I strongly don't agree that a town executee 'should go along with it', because that also means the executee is going along with being the executee.  "The auction is going to help town, and that's a reason to help the auction" is not related to being the executee or not.  The power to really consider taking out of play is the one that Tric took, not the one that makes one impossible to protect.  The 'wrong person' (someone distrusted) takes Smithy?  We elim them a future day and/or kill them... we see a town flip with a kill and CrystalizedMire claims a kill of anti-town... which I hope isn't wishful thinking on CrystalizedMire's part and absolutely could be written into her ability, I don't know anything about the game that would make that really unlikely... it's just iffy to my thinking.

And all these ability names are known and who gets them is known.  We see a town flip that can steal an ability with a known name.  We should expect that other townies and antitown too can potentially steal abilities with known names, and that locked might be unlockable for some under some conditions.

It bugs me a lot that EP wants the 'immunity to protect' ability out of the game.  Maybe his thinking isn't scary about that... I can see scary reasons, pro-maf reasons, to want that ability out of play, as I try to imagine what these night-owning maf abilities may or ... even probably must look like based on what is known and is claimed.

I really think Verm is town, further play and some things said hit my townie bells there.

I really think Tric is town, I can see good Tric-reasoning pro-town stuff in everything Tric's done.

I strongly suspect CrystalizedMire is town.  Almost as strong as I really think Verm and Tric, and it's mech related.

I really don't want any of those three elim.  I also am town and hope I'm not today's elim.

When I was maf with Hyper he did appear to need encouragement to post on some days, but not the start of the game.  Our maf chat from that game's open of course, you can search for posts from hyper and be able to scan all those without seeing my longer and even more frequent messages.  He posted 677 times in our maf chat, flip it to search for in: mafia-chat and check oldest first and you see from beginning of the game maf Hyper feeling his way - but he made 4 posts in the game thread before I made my 1st, and he was chatty.

Is he different this game because he's trying not to look like last game's maf persona, be he maf again or town?

secondly, that would be quite cruel and unusual if i were mafia again. i was stressed out last game, so i’m satisfied i can ‘relax’ (it feels strange to say that, because i will not be relaxed here). i’ll try out a new gameplay style, a bit more aggressive and active now that, once again[/i.], im acquainted with the playstyle.

I would like to see this relaxed or aggressive/active or whatever playstyle.  Sorry you were stressed out last game, you hid it really well for the most part; you did seem stressed and even checking out when you thought you/we were losing and especially when you seemed to think you might have to finish alone.

It's interesting to see you not really following through on stated intentions this game.  You were better about that your last game; but you had my strong encouragement.... but not for your first posts.  Your first 4-or-so posts in the game thread your maf game... that was you.  And you looked great and natural.

So not sure about you.  But failure to follow through does not generally get read as town here.

You didn't post until you were voted; vote came off and you didn't follow up yet... there's another vote on you now but....

As I'd say if I were town or maf... if you're town we need you.  OMG we need you.  Get over here and help.  If you're maf... I'm sorry.

Since I'm not maf and there's 10 other players in play, I know there's at least a 20% chance you are maf.  Same as everyone else.  If there's 3 maf, 30% chance it's you.  If there's 4 maf, 40% chance one's you.  That's not unusual, and no more cruel than any other random process.

So, when you can, please please please play play play.  Your team needs you and you have a team, be you town or not.  If you're town, I am on your team.  That is reason to delight - and if you're not town - don't fear me too much.  Play with me and the others and learn; even if you're sure this game's a loss learn from it; try, explore and grow.

NQT, FoU, Hyper, Juicebox, Jack; need more from you when possible.  Night 1 is coming.  - not adjusted from shortly before NQT, umm... gave more

NJW and EP, I'm reading everything you two post.  I'm glad to read more.

People I think are town, love to see more from you too.

Locations.

I know I seem pretty knowledgble for a townie.  I'm Imp and got the mind I got, and I already know 2/12 roles plus all the claims made so far.  Remember me in CYOS 1; remember me in BYOAlignment.  I put the stuff together and may not need much - that does not mean I'm overinformed scum.

One thing I know nearly nothing about is actual locations.  I have a role that does something in connection to them, but I don't actually know what they are/are not and I don't know much else about them either.

Like... I dunno if 'the corner bakery' is a location, if 'Boardwalk' is a location, if 'Rainforest' is a location, if 'Sweden' is a location or if 'Africa' is a location or if 'Starlight Station' is a location... 'Heaven', 'Dormitory', 'Bottom Left Corner', 'e4' or what are or are not location names... and purposes or anything else about them.  I also don't know if different people have their own sets of locations that apply to them but not others, and I don't know how the mech all ties together or the maze it forms.

If you think it's probably townie to discuss knowledge you have about locations, I and everyone else are listening, and I and maybe everyone/anyone else can perhaps do something with some of that knowledge.  Be thoughtful?  But we know mafia are likely well informed so the odds of that info hurting town more then helping... consider and decide what you share if anything about any kind of specifics.  Remember it's Imp and the mind of Imp who can put stuff together asking too, so you may not have to be really detailed?  But I will miss stuff like cyphers/weave it into the letters of other words you type.  I just don't see that kinda stuff.  Weird confusing things said... maybe I can catch that kinda info easier.


I'm eating breakfast before I dive headfirst into the newer stuff and discussing NQT's questions about auction and vote and whatever else I didn't focus on yet.

Also I really wanna hear from CrystalizedMire about items staying available for tomorrow if they do or whatever Crystal feels is townie to discuss about that if anything.  That the kill isn't until N5 at minimum... may not make it less believable or too late to matter.  And may mean not rushing to finish Auction today might be even more advised, so I'm thinking - and need breakfast.