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[Imp]

i dont understand what you mean by post-hoarding.

I was half joking and half seriously describing....

this game we have a post limit per game day.  50 per game day.  You've used 1, got 49 left.

I've used 8 counting this post, so I've got 42 left; everyone else has 43 or more.  So we all got plenny - but for some of us it's stressful having a post limit, changes how we play.  I'm better than I used to be   But not completely cozy yet.

But not posting maybe you save your posts for later!  "Post-hoarding" you dragon poster you.

Welcome in, hope the stresses and problem and lack of device access is easier than it was.

We have more than 24 hours left, you got time and please use some of it when you choose

hrm.  Hrm!!!!

Let's see.  NJW.

If all the auction items are taken off, then the quicker it is for me to kill an anti-town.

... CrystalizedMire.  For sure?  Not just kill, but kill a maf is your claim you can for sure do? For rules say we don't have any other kinda anti-town?  I wouldn't probe this but you just claimed it.  If we believe you even slightly you have a whole bunch of eager town plotting your success and survival.  However, I cannot tonight protect someone other than myself, so I cannot urge you not to take that butchery and I don't know what to recommend.

I have no idea how much claiming you wanna do about this.  Or if you feel so sure you die quick that protection is meaningless, use this shot now and help get there.  At a guess you don't get to do this again though so....


I can see maybe why you'd take butchery.  Salutes CrystalizedMire.  I don't agree to elim here today.

I lean towards I believe CrystalizedMire's claim and support it happening.

I'd like Sheriff's Office if nobody else should have it - I'm also interested in being able to vote to elim today and am content with none of those items in auction - but I want the auction to happen unless someone can make a convincing reason why this is likely a terrible idea.  Based on what little I know... this is likely a good thing.

I really care who gets the sheriff's office though.  But the true prize may be the auction completed.  Oh lets!

[Magma Mater]

Vote Count - Day One Midday

juicebox (1) - notquitethere
Imp (1) - Elephant Parade
NJW2000 (1) - Imp

Not Voting (7) - FallacyOfUrist, CrystalizedMire, EuchreJack, VermilionSkies, Hyper, NJW2000, juicebox

With 10 votes in play, 6 are required to lynch or 5 to no-lynch.

Day ends in 39 hours, at 20:00:00 UTC on January 18.

[Elephant Parade]

I lied

Mater, Prod for Hyper, please?  Still concerned about NJW, same reasons, but that vote begs to be placed.

Meta reads are all well and good but at no point have you explained how any of this ties into the single post Vermillion made. I find that quite suspicious. Imp.

Elephant, I don't get your desire for me to discuss or react to your reply, I discussed how unrealistic I thought it was when I asked.  My thoughts - I don't think you're living in a realistic world with that ... 'stated dream' of how the choreography could work.

You described waiting for someone to have intent to hammer then we all unvote - which means there's already votes and voters scattered to time - then 9 of us (if that many are possible) line up to decide who gets what, or who means to fight for what when it's next, or who means to lie about that - and we get all that sorted so maybe pro-town decisions happen for the most part about who gets what of the auction, then the people who chose not to get anything then hammer... I guess ideally that same person initially intented to be hammered.

That's not how town usually works on D1, and I tried to weave something less complex than that in CYOS1 D1 to elim web (along with Sof, dang Tric the double elim target really helped there, it made it harder for maf to cover both targets, well done once more).

This game... when you posted that 'plan' we had 2/11 not even posted yet.  Most of us had posted just once, a few twice.  Voting's important to most of us...

Even so, we saw last game how D2 NQT was 'set up' to be the elim by town - my maf partner there wasn't even voting EoD.  I could have had any of Tric, Verm, or NQT just by myself voting because nobody else was organized and everyone else but NQT had one vote, and town Jack had just parked his vote on NQT like 30 hours earlier and just not come back (granted was Christmas and day after, but still).  NQT even gently discussed with Jack in deadchat or something how anti-town-like that parked vote was.

We do stuff like that, even the town of us, and I'm surprised that you think we can pull off a 9 player organized handle auction and handle elim.

It may fall into place.  One vote's already gone to the auction - but you didn't predict 'it'll happen' - you describe an organized plan and one that I don't think is at all likely.

... I organize plans as any alignment if I see a way to.  Scum have a team and often need to organize plans when they can.  Masons might organize team behavior.  Very few others do in maf games, especially D1.

I don't get or understand your thinking there - I'm not sure it's scummy of you but it's not reasonable and doesn't take human nature, specific players present behaviors and patterns into account, and it's weird as heck for you to expect - in my eval.

Harder to tell is that how you'd think when townie/when not in a team... dunno. When you were masons with Jim D1 you were not at all obvious team to me, but I had MY ROLE and its ability shining in my eyes and I was going gangbusters towards joy and thrill... even when I settled down to serious I was grabbing likely MLs and conf towning them (would have been fine if they were anti-town, but they were just seriously scummy) and I really kinda thought you town by the time I was focusing that way.  You were even beggin' me to inspect you/Jim at one point to help ensure you guys weren't the elim... I was more worried about folks I thought were likely to be the elim/were likely to actually be anti-town.

I've grown a lot since that game and I don't have MY ROLE and its ability blinding me this game.  What I've got is nice and all, just not so nice that I can't think how to play to my wincon as well.

Meta reads been there/explained that.  Last game you were in with me, CYOS2, where my meta on Verm helped get him elim D1.  My meta read of Verm has minimally changed since then; I got to seem him as to-me conf town when I was maf in our game after CYOS2 and now here.  He's gonna try to fix it, and this:

Imp continues to haunt my mafia games like some sort of phantom. Please stop correctly reading me D1, it's getting uncanny.

Doesn't feel right or true, but the rest of his second post's okay and parts of it ring town-Verm-true.

Also, Verm... you sure you don't want me to correctly read you on D1 when you actually are town?  Cause... that means I run you up for elim because I wrongly I think you're not town... and that hurts town if you happen to be pro-town... sure you want me to stop reading you correctly D1?  Didn't think so... what, you want that?  Freakin' jester

Back to Elephant... so yeah.  I'm not 'scared' of town-reading Verm when I am maf - I showed that clearly last game.  I'm not scared of town-reading Verm when I am town, or reading him as anti-town.  He's Verm, one of my favorite people to play in a maf game beside; he's what I hoped Toons would be with me but Toons got sick of my errors or personality or something - dunno, probably don't wanna know.  He's what I hoped EJ would be for me since FBYOR, but that was mod-made key in lock and never a personality fit - maybe he is a personality fit.

He's Verm and he's my buddy whose throat I will and have cut when I think he's anti-my-wincon and if I think I gotta go that far (last game, whew, no; never hurt him 'cept in mod's end-game flavor - when he's anti-town and I am pro-town... dang.  Wish it didn't have to be, but you saw me handle that in CYOS2).


Seriously, Elephant, glad you at least asked Hyper a question that may be past RVS.  And your various RVS questions, glad you asked them.  I wonder about your scumhunting and such too, sure you get time to find your feet.  And I'm sorry I'm so loud or something that I distract you every game?  I care more when you're town, of course.  But I'm not playing that loud this game or posting that much, I think.  And you bounce from telling me... though this was a few games ago now...

Literally just post less. Post only the top 10% most important content and let the rest sit.

And I know you get 'I read X as town' because you've given tremendously little there yourself:

EP, do you have a current read of MS?

Yes.

Referencing other posts on this page. What type of post is that Elephant Parade? They ask, you say, and not much else?

I don't want to explain my read on MS because that would make it easier for scum!MS to be townread. I'll say that I read him as town, and I'll explain once he posts more, whether or not I change my mind.

So your chew on me is weird.  I'm still puzzling over you though, so I guess that's fine.

But you have loads of what I'm doing and reacting this game to consider, if you wanna.  Interesting to learn what you wanna.  And I just wanna see you move towards your wincon when you're ready, whatever that means for you.

Carry on, all!

I don't see how the plan is as impossible as you're saying. It is possible to herd players sometimes. Also, I find it odd how strongly you reacted to my proposing a plan for dealing with the auction, acknowledging that it might not work, in response to NQT's question about whether we should try to clear the auction. I guess we can test how likely it would be to work:

Everyone: What are your thoughts on a plan that looks like this? Would you agree to it? How would you react if you were the executee?

• When a player would otherwise hammer, they instead declare intent to hammer (assuming the day isn't about to end).
• Everyone unvotes.
• People buy abilities, with the executee claiming Butchery so that they can't gum things up by claiming Smithy, and generally trusted players claiming the beneficial abilities.
• Once the last ability has been bought, the remaining players hammer the original executee, regardless of their personal opinions.

Moving on, I don't think the comparison to Demonology is valid. I refused to explain my read on Maximum Spin for the specific reason that I felt it would make it trivially easy for scum!Spin to continue to be townread in that specific game. Also, my issue isn't that you didn't explain your read—it's that you managed to deliver a post-length explanation of it that in no way related to the post VS had made. That doesn't seem like something that someone who was actually trying to figure things out based on real evidence would be likely to do; their thought process would most likely involve that post, and therefore their explanation of said thought process would invoke it.

Re: you being loud: at a glance, I am pretty sure you're responsible for about 80% of the game's wordcount right now. Do with that information as you will.

This conversation literally is scumhunting. If you're saying I should play the field more, then I agree.

Overall, your arguments completely failed to convince me, and I don't think they're sincere. I will be leaving my vote where it is.

[Imp]

This conversation literally is scumhunting. If you're saying I should play the field more, then I agree.

Overall, your arguments completely failed to convince me, and I don't think they're sincere. I will be leaving my vote where it is.

Or the illusion of it, but yes, we both agree.  I do flip town, so be ready to keep hunting, hopefully more effectively.

I wonder what your stance is on participating in the auction yourself.

NJW doing it -- they're my strongest townread at the moment, with my only beef being a setup focus that can be justified by (a) everyone else doing it (b) the lack of other things to talk about until just recently)

Why the townread, and specifically what beef?

[Elephant Parade]

I would be willing to participate in the plan I outlined or some other plan if I thought it was good. I also might be willing to buy an ability near the end of the day if my ability didn't seem likely to affect the outcome of the execution. I'm not interested in buying Butchery right this second because, as I explained to CM, it would mean someone would have to buy Smithy.

I townread NJW because he's been active and nothing in his posts has felt forced or fake to me. I explained the beef in that post -- he has been fairly setup-focused and I generally don't like that, but I understand it here.

[Elephant Parade]

ebwop: if my *vote didn't seem likely to affect the outcome

[EuchreJack]

Do we know if we're giving up only our Day 1 vote or our vote for the remainder of the game for the auction?

While I personally would like to be Unlynchable, I think it's anti-town to progress any further towards allowing a player to "Nope" out of the Lynch. Town should own the Day, after all.

[EuchreJack]

I'm inclined to think the Imp vs. Elephant spat is Town vs. town, but will still modestly review for signs of scumminess. Elephant is currently looking more townie.

[EuchreJack]

Also: Tric does something stupid = Tric is Town.

[EuchreJack]

Juicebox isn't impressing me, but juicebox didn't impress me last time they were town, so NAI.

Hyper needs to do more to impressive. Gambler's fallacy alone makes me think they might be town.

I like NJW because they like me. I will largely be judging them on their night actions.

Fallacy isn't scaring me, so probably town.

Crystal is fair and so I am going to townread.

If I forgot someone, they're probably a scummy lurker

[Crystalizedmire]

Do we know if we're giving up only our Day 1 vote or our vote for the remainder of the game for the auction?

Only for the day.

[EuchreJack]

Actually VermilionSkies and NQT are fine for now.

Do we know if we're giving up only our Day 1 vote or our vote for the remainder of the game for the auction?

Only for the day.

Hm, then why not enjoy the auction then I guess. Day 1 is fucking useless anyways, might as well have some fun.

[FallacyofUrist]

Everyone: What are your thoughts on a plan that looks like this? Would you agree to it? How would you react if you were the executee?

• When a player would otherwise hammer, they instead declare intent to hammer (assuming the day isn't about to end).
• Everyone unvotes.
• People buy abilities, with the executee claiming Butchery so that they can't gum things up by claiming Smithy, and generally trusted players claiming the beneficial abilities.
• Once the last ability has been bought, the remaining players hammer the original executee, regardless of their personal opinions.

This works, if you trust people.

The thing is, the executee has no reason to claim Butchery in the first place? That'd just be admitting defeat and accepting that they'll be executed.

This could also go extremely poorly later in the game, so long as the mafia ensure they're the "remaining players".

Though that depends on whether the auction restocks.

The final thing is that you have to trust that CM isn't getting something out of the auction being used, which I don't necessarily at the moment.

[Elephant Parade]

If the executee is Town then they should go along with it because them being executed with a cleared auction block is better for Town than them being executed without. If the executee is scum... Hmm, you make a good point. I agree that doing this later in the game would be a bad idea; I sort of took that for granted.

CM has made it explicit that progressing the auction will somehow let her use a kill. There isn't much to go on yet, but I'm not seeing her usual scumtells and I don't think scum!CM would be this forward with information, so I townread her.

[TricMagic]

Do we know if we're giving up only our Day 1 vote or our vote for the remainder of the game for the auction?

While I personally would like to be Unlynchable, I think it's anti-town to progress any further towards allowing a player to "Nope" out of the Lynch. Town should own the Day, after all.

... Jack I'd vote for you if I had a vote. Look at all the goodies that can help town get information! We got a cop action on the table. Sure the butchery is quite negative but the rest are fine. The only danger is Mafia having full control of the vote. But that also reduces the number of targets to investigate.