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[Imp]

... And Magma's flip isn't marked unable to be ressed, so I guess we just don't have res in play.

Bringing back a conf town mod... I would do that.  Freaking make it so someone if you can, oh well because it's probably not in play.

Magma's 'tachyon source' potential passive looks highly informative.  It's useless, I think, except to increase total abilities by a non-functional +1; we likely have some reason why that could matter, like it affects something someone can do or how someone targets.  Please be thoughtful and careful about how that might affect you personally - I suspect we have been given useful and useable info in being shown Magma's flip, both directly and subtly.  The biggest concern I have is why that tachyon source looks so wrong to me.


The auction looks interesting.

I think if we choose to use it we should discuss who doesn't get what.  However it's all 'open handed' - we know who's immune to investigative abilities because of it, for example, and that it locks the next day (someone may be able to unlock stuff for themself or others though!  Or potentially mutate something into something).

I care extremely who gets to investigate.  It doesn't have to be me but I sure hope we agree on who takes that one, if we decide to use the auction.  It's active but free, so anyone can use it and still do whatever they do; the others are passive.

Until we talk more I don't have a preference for who does/doesn't get which skills.  I am happy to be investigated this game as well, D1/N1 or any time.

However, I think we should discuss who gets what, and form a group plan, which may take time to decide and agree on.  I'm more concerned about who does not get which ability than who does get which, and I don't care which one I get if any.

Oh wait.

Oh bleep.  I didn't read the bottom part.

To claim one, vote for it as normal (in bold, with red). For example, to claim Darkroom, do Darkroom. The items must be claimed in the order listed above (from top to bottom). If somebody claims one of the items, the next one immediately becomes available to claim (don't wait for me to announce anything!)

If you claim an item, you will lose your vote for the day. This will reduce the number of votes required for a lynch. In other words, if all items are claimed, there will only be five votes left in play so it will only take three votes to hammer somebody. It's possible that taking an item will immediately cause a lynch to occur.

Before anyone participates in the auction:

Mater, can 1 player get more than 1 item?

You don't explicitly say one person cannot.

If they can, would they need to have more than one vote to lose?  You don't expressly say people without votes cannot place a bid/another bid on these auction items.


Everyone, this likely is more complex than it appears... but I don't personally confirm it, just heavily suspect it.

If some players "take one for the team" by grabbing the useless abilities, that opens up the useful ones for other players. I have another theory about this though, one which I will share at end of day.


Imp. You know why! 

Sure. I swear, town would/will miss me when I'm gone this game, and I'm also fine with grabbing the immune to being elim passive if it goes that way and we agree to that.

[Magma Mater]

Yes, I meant to say that the vote is taken as payment for the ability. If you do not have a vote, you cannot purchase an ability. If a player has more than one vote, then they can purchase more than one ability. At the moment, nobody has an extra vote (it would be reflected in the vote count).

[Imp]

Okay.  My adjusted opinion on the auction:

The only thing I care hugely about there is how it affects the votes-who can elim-and remember we have hammers... and require hammers for an elim to happen.

So, who can vote and how many to hammer matter a lot this game.

The only ability I think is super valuable is the sheriff's office.

Whomever gets that, whomever can maybe unlock it again each day if anyone can, would hopefully be doing so but that goes without saying, I presume except huh, maybe think about it, and I'm not claiming it's me or that someone can cause at this time I dunno.

I get that someone might love the smithy, hospital, and secretly love the darkroom.

Maybe we set stuff up so whomever we intend to elim today is asked to take the darkroom, and die with it, so the remainder can be investigated without concern for that ability.  There's reasons maybe to adjust who we elim based on how that discussion plays out of course, fun fun wifom.

I can see some very good reasons involving potential vote manip to have us not touch the auction at all, or only partially go through it today (I personally have no idea what happens if we don't get all the items today, if they linger for tomorrow, if there's a different auction tomorrow, or what).

But the value I see is the sheriff's office and how the auction itself affects voting... and who and if someone can repeatedly unlock locked stuff in some specific way that could target any of these.  If anyone can.

FoU:  I claim not to be part of the family; carry on.

Everyone:  Your thoughts on the auction, and how it effects votes?  I won't ask about the chance of 'so what if there's a persistent unlocker in play, but if you choose to discuss that, I'm listening.

Everyone:  Consider at some point discussing if you care about locations, and if you might want help moving to specific one(s).

[NJW2000]

This looks spectacularly complicated already.

...

And has mechanics resolving in real time? Last game I played like that was definitely interesting. Oh god.

Everyone,  do you think it's worth us trying to clear through the auction to get the Sheriff's Office? What are the arguments for/against?

I'm currently trying to work out if the price paid for Hospital and Sheriff's office would be worthwhile if the abilities were assigned publically and at random. I think it would, if only for the Sheriff one. If we coordinate quite strictly, and ensure that the people with the abilities that would be strong in mafia hands are common townpicks, it's probably ok... but then none of the common townpicks get to vote. Huh.

Unless we take one or two each day, and leave the pro-town ones for the endgame? I'm pretty sure that should work out well - one of the early ones per night wouldn't be an issue. Even taking Smithy could be used to cause a hammer, thus making the lynch-immunity meaningless anyway. And Imp's idea works for the other ones - players can take them before being hammered.

Everyone:  Your thoughts on the auction, and how it effects votes?

If we use it carefully and only take one or two votes away each day, it should be fine. Day discipline and cooperation will be very important here, especially given the hammers and what Magma said about mafia owning the night.

The worst case scenario is a mad scramble for abilities leaving only a handful of players deciding a vote, but that's probably not going to happen. It takes tremendous inspiration and boldness to immediately grab Darkroom as town in order to keep it out of mafia hands, for example. Most players here don't have both.



I don't want to make any claims or start speculating on mechanics too much. Not much to say yet read-wise. Do I like EJ's first two posts? I think I do.

[Imp]

Counts posts and swears

Unless we take one or two each day

Mater, what may we know about the duration of this auction, and what may happen to remaining items if none are bid for today or if only some are bid for today?

I don't want to make any claims or start speculating on mechanics too much. Not much to say yet read-wise. Do I like EJ's first two posts? I think I do.

What do you like about EJ's first two posts, and why is no other poster/their posts at this time worth a mention or observation from you?

[Magma Mater]

Mater, what may we know about the duration of this auction, and what may happen to remaining items if none are bid for today or if only some are bid for today?

No comment.

[VermilionSkies]

Alright!

General abilities seem very strong.

Nothing to do with Family, I'm Global Campaign.
I think Imp is the same, but I'm not certain.
All of my actions have to do with Locations.

The location list is really funny. For related reasons, we shouldn't lynch Tric today.

I am not interested in taking anything from the auction.

[Imp]

... I am not global campaign as a general ability.  That's just my playstyle shining through.

Not supposed to read the mod.  Still....

I read the game.

My new concern about the auction stuff - it probably empowers someone/unlocks stuff/does stuff.

These do not look like scattered pieces of the Eclipse game from our flipped Mater-Mod-townie.

In particular, Sheriff's Office has no real place in a interstellar spacefaring campaign, even if technically we can have darkrooms and 'butchery tools' on interstellar ships.  But we would not have a Sheriff's Office unless someone was trying to be antique with conventions and naming in that setting.  Therefore, this is one of us.

So I now believe 1+ of us, probably 1, directly benefits in some way from the action happening, besides the benefit or whatever of the individual abilities going to any bidder.

Until and unless someone wants to tell us more about why the auction's awesomely townie and why powering them up is awesomely townie - I say do not touch the auction unless you think you know a really good reason to.  Otherwise, if someone wants to talk about what they know about the auction, omg I'm listening.  And I'll claim auction is not connected to me.

The location list is really funny. For related reasons, we shouldn't lynch Tric today.

I don't understand why you said any of that, any of it but what really matters is 'Tric huh wha?' unless more of the huh-wha (Like, I dunno what you know about the location list to make it funny?  Or what the related reasons are.  Or really... I totally didn't see any of that bit coming so I'm huh-wha? about it) stuff is also really mattering.  However, elaborate only if it's townie and when seems right, I'm clueless.

This is more feel and confusion and I want to see where it leads.  This is a bit or moderately less 'I mean this and this should be followed through on' than my normal vote, but... omg this feels right and NJW2000 feels wrong and I don't quite know why but let's see what comes and reactions and also and massively bleep post limits.

[Elephant Parade]

EP, I usually try to engage with players who have had less attention as a priority, but eventually interact with everyone. This game might warrant a slightly different approach.


Everyone,  do you think it's worth us trying to clear through the auction to get the Sheriff's Office? What are the arguments for/against?

The optimal play might be to wait for someone to declare intent to hammer, have everyone unvote, allot abilities in whatever way feels reasonable, and then hammer the original executee with whoever's left. There are things that could go wrong with that, though, like said executee snagging Smithy (though if they were willing to play along, this could be prevented by having them buy one of the earlier abilities).

... I am not global campaign as a general ability.  That's just my playstyle shining through.

Not supposed to read the mod.  Still....

I read the game.

My new concern about the auction stuff - it probably empowers someone/unlocks stuff/does stuff.

That's a safe assumption about pretty much any global mechanic in a BYOR

[Crystalizedmire]

Everyone,  do you think it's worth us trying to clear through the auction to get the Sheriff's Office? What are the arguments for/against?

That's my ability.
I'll say it's worth it but bear in mind I'm biased.

[FallacyofUrist]

FallacyofUrist: In the OP, your 'o' is mistakenly capitalized. How does this make you feel?

Mildly annoyed. 2 / 10.


Should we be claiming our genres, especially on Day 1? The ability to coordinate is valuable, but I feel like it also gives scum a roadmap.

If the people with the Family genre do need to claim it, I wouldn't know, but I'd still trust their judgement more than my own.

The power level seems fairly high, but not maximal.


I feel like the auction is leaning anti-town, as an ability. Removing votes and preventing the execution isn't ideal. Like it says in the OP, we're supposed to own the day game, and grabbing auction abilities forfeits that.

That's my ability.
I'll say it's worth it but bear in mind I'm biased.

Hill house betrayal vibes.

[TricMagic]

To start off I'll be the one using the protect tonight, K? Anyone who knows knows. If you got an argument against it make your case.

[NJW2000]

I don't want to make any claims or start speculating on mechanics too much. Not much to say yet read-wise. Do I like EJ's first two posts? I think I do.

What do you like about EJ's first two posts, and why is no other poster/their posts at this time worth a mention or observation from you?

With EJ, it's pretty much a vibe read based on how I've seen him play. If I had to put it into words... on D1, scum!EJ is nervy and careful while town!EJ is aggressive and chaotic.

Doubleposting to say that he'd like lynch-immunity is not a nervy and careful move. It's a very early tone read, but that's something I'm pretty good at.

I didn't mention any other posts because I didn't have anything particularly solid after what... ten posts from five players? You don't have to talk about literally everything that happens in the game.


I am keeping something back that I will probably talk about at some point.

The genres do seem potentially quite powerful, and I'm still trying to work out all the implications of claiming mine... I don't see any visible downside at the moment, and there's a lot of upside if it works out well. There's a potential for scum WIFOM, but otherwise I think it's a pretty ok idea to claim at the end of the day or earlier.

I'm definitely going to wait until everyone's had a chance to post though, in case there's something I'm not seeing about the situation. If nobody else wants to talk about it yet, I'm willing to go along with that.

Should we be claiming our genres, especially on Day 1? The ability to coordinate is valuable, but I feel like it also gives scum a roadmap.

I'd normally advise people to keep quiet about almost anything role-related until D2, but magma saying "The mafia should feel confident that they own the night phase" makes me think that making genre info public is going to give town more power than it gives to scum, because scum probably have a lot of mechanical info anyway. Your Horrible Cults game did actually feature a huge number of mechanics that were opaque to scum, which to be honest felt pretty awful as a cult leader, so that would be an argument against genre claims. From what magma says in the OP, I think that's pretty unlikely to be the case this game.

I really don't think coordination is a good idea though, and announcing your intent for night actions is almost always a bad idea. If scum have an advantage at night, publically coordinating won't be able to break that, and will make them much stronger. So unless there's a reason to claim outside of coordination, there is no good reason to do it.


Edit: ninja'd by Tric immediately after typing that. With a classic Tric first post, no less.

[TricMagic]

I'm going to go ahead and take the Darkroom. If you can't read the dragon, don't bother checking and all that.

And if someone kills me for claiming a protect that's fine too.

[Imp]

With EJ, it's pretty much a vibe read based on how I've seen him play. If I had to put it into words... on D1, scum!EJ is nervy and careful while town!EJ is aggressive and chaotic.

Doubleposting to say that he'd like lynch-immunity is not a nervy and careful move. It's a very early tone read, but that's something I'm pretty good at.

I didn't mention any other posts because I didn't have anything particularly solid after what... ten posts from five players? You don't have to talk about literally everything that happens in the game.

Nice, thanks.

I am keeping something back that I will probably talk about at some point.

The genres do seem potentially quite powerful, and I'm still trying to work out all the implications of claiming mine... I don't see any visible downside at the moment, and there's a lot of upside if it works out well. There's a potential for scum WIFOM, but otherwise I think it's a pretty ok idea to claim at the end of the day or earlier.

I'm definitely going to wait until everyone's had a chance to post though, in case there's something I'm not seeing about the situation. If nobody else wants to talk about it yet, I'm willing to go along with that.

I don't object to you claiming your genre(s), though I don't know enough to say if I might wish you hadn't later.  There's stuff I claim on my first post, for sure before the end of the day, absolutely never, whatever.  I trust you to read your role and wincon and decide for yourself - and that can mean getting others' opinions - here's mine.

I also support folks who say their genre is a townie secret or something, for all I know theirs could be.

Edit: ninja'd by Tric immediately after typing that. With a classic Tric first post, no less.

eyes Tric; eyes Verm

For now I'm okay with this.  Verm's townie or learned a lot (totally possible, he's had a few lessons and is smart; am ready to be fooled by him and very little to read) but this looks okay far as I can see.

Verm, need you talking this game; 50 posts is terrifyingly few but all of us together (we could use 550!) so far as of this post I write we've used 18.

If it's in your range, please poke people, ask questions, dig up chaos on the verbal level.  Help get people talking a bit?  No is fine.  For now I have no advice about what to maybe do outside of talk, but the game's dang early and people are hardly talking.

Tric, you just be Tric, I'll figure out how to read you some day, regardless of if I already can or can't.

NJW I'm still sus of.  I saw him be anti-town in the awesome Max Spin's Soviet Mafia game, he was pretty townie to my survivor happy-to-play-pro-town...whoops-another-townie-voted-me-and-died-for-it-game; he was the least offensive player there and won with me, thanks for that - then.  I got actual standards this game.

I have vibes of that game, a feel more than anything.  Still watching, eval of all of course.  There are differences between here and there, especially first few posts compared here to there.  But if I die early or something, wanna make sure I mentioned; I got ringing bells and am unsure/concerned about NJW.

Hyper and Juicebox, I miss you guys.  Game is approaching 23 hours after start, no posts from you guys.  Grats on that awesome post hoarding... taking notes.  Show me how to use some, k?  I got all I can learn about not-posting-at-all.  Hyper... if you actually rolled maf again, condolences + I know you love it.  Yes, I can read you, and... I can read silence from you if I have to, so get over the fear and get to fooling if you have to.  It's more educational and fun for everyone, yeah?

CrystalizedMire... You're getting away with posting as you are so far because I think you're more skilled if you're anti-town?

So far your post and game involvement reads a little like wubba's total emerald-focus in CYOS1.  If you're trying to scumhunt, I don't see it.  If you're trying to just get your unlocks so you can do da magic... if I were scum and knew you weren't, I might literally eat you.  If you're triple-crossing for that, yay.  But... play too?  Day game play.  Like... discuss and jostle people and be readable and help others be readable off you?

I hate the playstyle so far this game, but I lean weak town on Crystal despite the orange name.  Could be anything though, is the problem.  sniffs CrystalizedMire carefully  Another thing I hate, I asked the mod questions about what Crystal later claimed was her auction, and she didn't touch my questions either.  I'm confused why those answers are not pro-town.  The heck kinda hand is Crystal holding so close to her chest?  I mean, I don't need to know the cards held, but is that a town hand and town priorities?  I almost wanna say yes because Crystal tends to be pretty slick and smooth as anti-town?  Not happy and confused.

NQT I hope is townie; I don't have a lot of game experience beside NQT when he isn't.  Eager to read more, you still got 48 'use any time' posts there, buddy!

FoU, hrm.  I like this FoU but I'm distraught that EJ's first post read/felt so FoU to me that I thought FoU had posted it.  Was why I answered FoU about family and carrying on in my second post, by that time I had totally misbelieved FoU had already posted it.  Whoops, and no hidden message intended, FoU/EJ carry on as you choose.

EJ, hrm.  I am now scared that I didn't even see-feel EJ when I read EJ.  Otherwise, I wanna hear a lot more from EJ as we go, but even though I'm eerie of NJW, NJW's reasoning works and I've seen stressed EJ for sure.  This is not a stressed EJ at those post points and I'm glad of that, sure this could be town EJ.  More please when there's time.

The optimal play might be to wait for someone to declare intent to hammer, have everyone unvote, allot abilities in whatever way feels reasonable, and then hammer the original executee with whoever's left. There are things that could go wrong with that, though, like said executee snagging Smithy (though if they were willing to play along, this could be prevented by having them buy one of the earlier abilities).

EP... Hey, what gives you hope/thought that.... well the math.

To claim all the auction abilities would take 6 voters.  To hammer anyone after that would take 3 other voters.

In what world do we have the kinda coordination to pull off 9 votes in... some fashion that decides after someone declares intent to hammer and there's still time left to coordinate 9 people?

.... what I really wonder is what kinda word does EP think that's a reasonable coordination expectation to discuss?  Or do I not understand what you're discussing?


Bleeping post limits.  Would some/all of you please post a bit more so I can read more?  I kinda wanna read us all.

And we all got plenty, I mean plenty, of posts left, ahhhhhhh.  I'm on 45 left and y'all have more than me still.