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[Elephant Parade]

@Ghosts: Are you currently aware of, and interested in explaining, why you're ghosts?

No.

Do you like mysteries?

Fair enough.

I used to volunteer at a library so I hate them. They took up like 1/3 of the shelves and it felt like they were building their titles out of a pool of maybe 50 nouns, spearheaded by BLOOD. Based on that I think I can declare the genre awful despite having never read anything in it.

I think that may be a consequence if my reticence to play in the first place.

Ghosts can use and be targeted by actions though, essentially taking away the power of the mafia to eliminate players with a kill.

Seems to be awfully town-sided, no?

Interestingly, I came to the exact opposite conclusion -- ghosts can't be flipped to confirm alignment, and can't vote or be voted (I think this will make reads harder), yet can act at night. Sure, no mafiakill, but mafia ghosts have free reign to perform other hostile actions forever and we can't just execute them.

I would speculate that one of our two ghosts is nontown but that's pure mechanics gut.

[Imp]

but mafia ghosts have free reign to perform other hostile actions forever and we can't just execute them.

Well.  Maybe there's various interfering actions that can be done.

Maybe we even have a Ghostbusters in play, or could get one if we think we need it.

But since we can target ghosts, surely they can be interfered with in various ways if needed or wanted, if any such abilities exist.

[FallacyofUrist]

Also, if someone else will claim possessing any items, I'll claim information about someone else's role theme.

[Elephant Parade]

but mafia ghosts have free reign to perform other hostile actions forever and we can't just execute them.

Well.  Maybe there's various interfering actions that can be done.

Maybe we even have a Ghostbusters in play, or could get one if we think we need it.

But since we can target ghosts, surely they can be interfered with in various ways if needed or wanted, if any such abilities exist.

I'm sure but my point is that the most basic townsided game mechanics (voting, executing) don't interact with them.

[Imp]

Also, if someone else will claim possessing any items, I'll claim information about someone else's role theme.

I have item(s)!

I betcha are gonna claim you have info on my role theme, right?  That's cheap if so.  But clever.

Speaking of which, I'm potentially open to trades.  I don't know if I want anything.  I don't really want to talk about what I have with the info already in play.  But I do have item(s).

[TricMagic]

I'm guessing this card is yours Fallacy? It doesn't do anything.

[Elephant Parade]

Tfw no private chat to hash out ideas and be catty in

[hector13]

Imp, do you have a team-chat again this game?

stressful ahhing

So, I don't have a team-chat.  I was in a private chat, with Tric.  It had complex rules and I don't know who created it.  I was shocked to learn about it and it needed a LOT of questions asked because we could have gamed that system pretty darn sweetly, to my eyes, if either of us had wanted or even needed to.  It was designed to be puzzled out and understood how it could be used, and I was deep in questions with the mod and making plans when... well.  I was Tric'd.  Hopefully nicely.  Tric, hope we can save you, sound like you need saving.

What do you mean by "designed to be puzzled out"? There's no harm in telling us besides wasting some amount of time.

To whom it may concern, I was going to discuss a bit with you here.  Seems unneeded now.  Maybe give a bit more time unless you're sure you know what you're doing and what I am doing, and what I can do.

Or not.

What were you going to discuss about?

Would whoever created that chat and put me/Tric in it speak up and discuss that, so I can decide if and how to answer this question of Egan's?

I'm Egan?

I don't care about the ghosts, they can't vote/be voted and they can't mafiakill according to the condition.

In addition, the fact that ghost players can just "ignore the thread and not post if they want to" with the mod's permission implies to me that they are low impact. Most likely here to be a nuisance and confuse.

I think that may be a consequence if my reticence to play in the first place.

Ghosts can use and be targeted by actions though, essentially taking away the power of the mafia to eliminate players with a kill.

Seems to be awfully town-sided, no?

The fact that ghosts have to be killed properly to alignment flip implies that not all ghosts are aligned with town

Considering the ghosts are players in the game, and at least I can say there appears to be no alignment change related to becoming a ghost, the existence of ghosts doesn’t affect the balance of alignments.

Spoiler: mechanics talk, speculation, probably irrelevant (click to show/hide)

Ghosts can’t vote or be voted, so it effectively works like a kill (unless ghosts can somehow gain votes) but still keeps the night/power game around. This would imply to me the mafia wincon is more along the lines of “have as many or more votes than town” as a wincon, and some pretty excellent actions to balance the fact that townies can still take actions after they “die”.

It also leaves a great deal of space for fakeclaims, because flips don’t happen all that often, though that doesn’t matter so much.

I don’t know how ghosts interact with the town wincon, though.

[Elephant Parade]

Are we assuming that dead players will turn into ghosts instead of flipping? That seems strange and the mechanical explanation was ambiguous on that point

[FallacyofUrist]

I don't think your role has anything to do with cards, though.

Playing cards, in particular.

My role isn't themed around cards, but I did start with one.

I don't particularly want it. Fortunately, I don't have to keep it.

Trade Six of Hearts to Imp in exchange for a random item.

[FallacyofUrist]

I'm guessing this card is yours Fallacy? It doesn't do anything.

Nope, my role isn't themed around cards, but I did start with one. It should be very obvious what my role is themed about by Day 2.

[hector13]

Are we assuming that dead players will turn into ghosts instead of flipping? That seems strange and the mechanical explanation was ambiguous on that point

Eh that’s fair. It says some number of players don’t die properly, not necessarily all players.

[Imp]

NQT, are ghosts considered dead for the purpose of Town wincon?  We get all anti-town ghosted and we're good, or heck no, banish them nuisances?

This would imply to me the mafia wincon is more along the lines of “have as many or more votes than town” as a wincon, and some pretty excellent actions to balance the fact that townies can still take actions after they “die”.

We got told maf wincon before game started, and town.

Town: You win when all anti-town factions are dead.

Mafia: You win when town cannot win.

Something is causing some number of players to not die properly, instead they stick around as nuisance ghosts.
[spoiler=Ghost Condition]{Ghost}: Ghost players don't go to deadchat. Ghost players can keep posting in the thread and any chats but they do not have a vote and cannot be voted out. Ghost players can use actions, wear hats and eat fruit. Ghost players cannot use a mafiakill. Ghost players cannot trade (though they may still Gift). Ghost players can be targeted by actions. Ghost player can gain most conditions. A player who turns into a ghost won't flip until they die properly, are destroyed or otherwise leave the game. A ghost cannot be resurrected if their corpse is destroyed. A ghost has the mod's permission to ignore the thread and not post if they want to: they won't be modkilled for persistent absence. Ghost status is public and this condition is public if there are any ghosts.

If ghosts don't count as dead for town's purpose... this is going to be interesting.  But surely possible.  I currently don't know the solve.

Are we assuming that dead players will turn into ghosts instead of flipping? That seems strange and the mechanical explanation was ambiguous on that point

Public Announcements

Something is causing some number of players to not die properly, instead they stick around as nuisance ghosts.

That implies that there's a cause, and that there's a number of ghosts possible (which may or may not exceed all players in play).  I don't know much about ghosts yet!  But I suspect some number of us can become ghosts, maybe those who die first up to X number.  That's pure guess.

I don't think your role has anything to do with cards, though.

Playing cards, in particular.

My role isn't themed around cards, but I did start with one.

I don't particularly want it. Fortunately, I don't have to keep it.

Trade Six of Hearts to Imp in exchange for a random item.

Yep, I don't care about cards either, that I know of.  They're made of paper, technically, and so are pages which are involved with my role in some way (and maybe others' roles too, no idea yet).

I'm open to the possibility of that trade, or maybe someone else wants it.

I note it's not a valid trade as offered, when and if I do make a trade offer, Fal, you'll want to redo your purple with my (or someone else's) exact item name or no trade will happen, if I understand trade rules (and if nobody else is messing with trading... which is entirely possible that Fal or anyone has some special, 'for them' trade rules.  If so, forgive me, I only discuss base mechanics)

[Jim Groovester]

Do you like parodies?

If they're funny.

How’d you like a PAIR OF DEEZ NUTS. /hector wins

Goddammit.

Trains Train. Bit early for that in that it's night for me right now. We need more information.

There is a reason I was just going to fire it at the first person who wanted it. Mostly cause I could then kill them if they signaled the wrong thing. Not like that would work out well with the ghosts potentially in play. Rather than pick a leader, decide on who's town.

So, who wants to get buff? Side effects unknown, 1 shot only since it's from the game.

I recommend using actions of dubious consequences on Egan_BW.

Are we assuming that dead players will turn into ghosts instead of flipping? That seems strange and the mechanical explanation was ambiguous on that point

I am not assuming this.

I am also assuming that ghosts can be killed since they can both use and be targets of abilities.

Also, if someone else will claim possessing any items, I'll claim information about someone else's role theme.

I have a playing card.

I don't know what it does and don't really want to keep it to find out but one of my abilities consumes items, which is what I plan to do with it.

[Egan_BW]

I actually had a passive to be able to act on night 0, and it was explicitly to give me more time to do things before being dead. Since as a ghost I am able to act, it implies that dead players being ghosts wasn't the only possible outcome of night 0, otherwise NQT would not have needed to give me that extra action.