Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7

Author Topic: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.  (Read 4230 times)

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2024, 07:38:12 pm »

Okay.  Quoting from Dev's posts:

"the AI rooms seem relatively mundane"

"There is one major problem.  One, it's an old navy system, and connecting units to the ship network requires certain cyptographic encoder/decoders.  And for security purposes, you do not have the schematics or the keys for building them.  You can't add new ships to the system except by disassembling old ships, or using the limited supply of extras.  It's also very large scale, so trying to modernize it will be complicated, to say the least... if you even want to.  There are many years of subroutines and notes for using it, as the various crews have expanded its capabilities over their terms of service.. should you manage to dredge through the huge pile of complicated programming-related files."

Since I'm a

reclusive prompt engineer
with these interests and skills,
Quote
Specialty (primary): Diplomacy
Specialty (secondaries): Sensors, Engineering

I'ma get to know this AI system, what it can and can't do.  If it's an LLM type or something along those lines but more advanced, I'ma start building my sense of its 'personality', it's core programming and how flexible that is, what is likely to help trigger it towards more or less stability.  Get a sense of whatever biases it has, how it ranks priorities when those are competing factors with each other, how it handles conflicting instructions, conflicting data, and other types of ambiguity.

I'll also start looking at how it can help me summarize and understand those notes, preparing for whatever we decide to do, whenever.
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Radio Controlled

  • Bay Watcher
  • Morals? Ethics? Conscience? HA!
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2024, 05:49:52 am »

"This ship could bring entire planets to heel," Vlad points out, "so it should. We can establish a series of satrapies paying us tribute, and then leverage said tribute to deploy more conventional control mechanisms in a self-sustaining cycle. It's a beautiful vessel, but it's built for war. It won't be fully suited to mere salvage or exploration."
"War, I can do." Kaitaryn nod. "What's the goal, though? We can build our own, little empire with this thing... but a whole fleet of ships like this weren't enough to keep the last empire standing. What's our legacy, a handful of systems brought to heel, to gradually be whittled down again in the generations to come, as this ship runs out of replacement parts?"

"Yeah, I agree with Kaitaryn here. That's like finding a gun in an alley and now you have to become a criminal and start extorting people.

If people really want to wet their beak, we can still find some pirate stronghold somewhere and introduce it to the void."


To orient ourselves spatially a bit, could we get something of a map? Can be in text form if it's easier, just to know what our nearest points of interest are. Right now we are in the boonies, correct? Any stellar phenomena nearby we could start harvesting with our fancy new toys?

How does an FTL jump work, in general? We chart a course from anywhere to anywhere, or are there specific lanes we have to travel along? Do we still travel physically or is it more like a teleport? 



Spoiler: Character Sheet (click to show/hide)
Logged


Einsteinian Roulette Wiki
Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

Devastator

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2024, 07:33:11 am »

I at least want to do a shakedown run, first. That's when navy engineers get to push ALL the buttons. For starters, the maps are out of date. Everything in the galaxy would have moved too far by now, and almost nothing would be named the same. Let's find some quiet, no-name system with some nickel-iron asteroids no one cares about, then put some of the no doubt impressive gunnery computers to work and sight everything in, to diagnose any potential problems well before we wind up in any real trouble. I want to put my Munitions skill to work checking the available ordnance, and make SURE we're not gonna have some unfortunate chain reaction event because the warheads were out of date or some antimatter/hydrogen mix was 0.0012 angstroms out of alignment. You do NOT mess around with vintage technology. That's why I still have all my fingers.

(There seems to be no objection to warming the ship up a bit)

(2d8)5,6 -2 (below-minimum crew with AI assistance)

What you need to do first is start up the engines via the control station on the main bridge.  You've never started up a ship of this magnitude before, but fortunately the AI assistance brings up the checklist quickly and then you go through the list, one step at a time.  There's a few quick annotations being made of parts needing minor adjustment, but the AI systems are smooth, flagging everything into a list and continuing the process.  And with a bit more checking, you can see that the list is flagged into the automated maintenance systems, and figure out how to access those logs as well, so you can easily see what's broken and what isn't.  Overall, things look good and the ship comes to full life.

The rest of the startup goes smoothly, and the main bridge lights come on for the first time in who knows how long.  It's still a bit icky, as you can see bits of preservation gel stuck in various corners, having not yet been purged by the life support system.  Still, the remains should evaporate in the next day or so.

(2d8)1,2 +3 (Munitions specialty) -2 (below-minimum crew with AI assistance.)

After this you move on to examining the magazines.  You could look at the inventory before, but couldn't actually access the magazines themselves.  They were supposedly empty, but..  well, far better to see it than believe it.

Fortunately, they are empty.  At least the main bomb magazines are, for the great siege guns.  This would be where the most destructive ordinance on the ship would be carried.

The cameras inside their space are in working order and show each bomb rack to be empty.  Same with the manufacturing areas.  No stray ordinance, no stray components, and the robots move on your orders.  Currently, you don't have any raw materials to make any bombs and test the systems themselves, but the siege guns test okay even if you can't properly test-fire them.

Quote
reclusive prompt engineer
with these interests and skills,
Quote
Specialty (primary): Diplomacy
Specialty (secondaries): Sensors, Engineering

I'ma get to know this AI system, what it can and can't do.  If it's an LLM type or something along those lines but more advanced, I'ma start building my sense of its 'personality', it's core programming and how flexible that is, what is likely to help trigger it towards more or less stability.  Get a sense of whatever biases it has, how it ranks priorities when those are competing factors with each other, how it handles conflicting instructions, conflicting data, and other types of ambiguity.

I'll also start looking at how it can help me summarize and understand those notes, preparing for whatever we decide to do, whenever.

Research (2d8) 3,2 +0 (no research skill) -2 (below-minimum crew with AI assistance.)
Diplomacy (2d8) 4,1 +3 (diplomacy skill) -2 (below-minimum crew with AI assistance.)

You know the basics of ship AIs.  In general, they are to provide a heavy amount of automation assistance for the crew, supporting actions by the commanders and crew.  They're very complicated, and not really things you can poke about with, unless you're a true AI specialist, and you're not sure there is a person in the galaxy who is a top-grade AI specialist anymore.  Modern ship AIs are just basic packages cloned over from previous packages made decades ago, spun off for each new system being put together.  Made by the numbers, not optimized for each ship.

This one is too complex for you to learn anything about how it works.  The equipment looks normal enough, but you don't learn anything you didn't learn from the initial observation.

That said, they are smart enough to question, and you can probe what it needs and what it feels like.. this is a much bigger system than the ordinary line of rather dumb ship AIs, so it should be much more of a person.  Some probing later, and you find a station to access it's basic personality, so you can talk to it.

In general, it is a warship. It understands that there are three key priorities for it.  It wants to conduct the missions given to it by its commanders, protect the ship (Including crew as well as the machinery and systems), and a more vague one to 'be the ship'.  This basically means it wants the systems to be intact, and although it'll allow modifications and upgrades, it very much wants to be a space cruiser, not a jump relay or a space station, and it wants to help its crew and commanders use it to the best of its ability.. as a space cruiser.

In general, it will do the missions, and it will take actions needed to save the ship and the crew without orders, but it does seem to understand that it's a warship, and that damage and destruction is a thing that can happen to it.  As it to do something risky and it'll do it, but will try to do it in the safest and most effective way possible.

Conflicts and such.. well, you can't figure it out.  You know it has ways to resolve that, as it's deeply linked to damage control and engineering systems, but there's too much to go into that now.

One thing you do find out.  It wants a name.  It's been mothballed long enough that it's expecting to be renamed upon waking up again, and at some point You should come up with a name for the ship.

The research notes are written in what might as well be a foreign language for you.  The AI keeps suggesting basic learning and training modules, which will take weeks, months, or years to learn enough of them to read even the most basic.  They seem like a mystery to be unlocked by someone who isn't you.

To orient ourselves spatially a bit, could we get something of a map? Can be in text form if it's easier, just to know what our nearest points of interest are. Right now we are in the boonies, correct? Any stellar phenomena nearby we could start harvesting with our fancy new toys?

How does an FTL jump work, in general? We chart a course from anywhere to anywhere, or are there specific lanes we have to travel along? Do we still travel physically or is it more like a teleport? 


Spoiler: Character Sheet (click to show/hide)

For a FTL jump you can chart a course from anywhere to anywhere.  A very low-end ship will use tables of safe jumps and jump settings, but even modern warships are capable enough in terms of navigation to plot their own routes from place to place.  For this ship, any normal jump should be able to be plotted without difficulty, even with nearly zero crew, due to you having a functional AI system.  Very difficult jumps like ones into orbit of a black hole, or ones close to a supernova, are more difficult and you might not want to do them until you have this ship properly crewed.  Kaitaryn is a proper pilot and should help a lot.

In general, you can't jump from a place too near to a moon, planet, or star.  A large mass in general.  You also can't jump to one of those, a planet, moon, or star.  They are also not perfectly accurate, so you want to jump well away from stations and such to limit risk of a collision.  They're also not accurate enough to intentionally create a collision, should that be your goal.

As for the area around here..

Spoiler: Local Area (click to show/hide)

Please post your character sheet whenever you post orders, particularly including your specialties/subspecialties.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 07:52:51 am by Devastator »
Logged

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2024, 08:44:18 am »

"Yeah, I agree with Kaitaryn here. That's like finding a gun in an alley and now you have to become a criminal and start extorting people.

If people really want to wet their beak, we can still find some pirate stronghold somewhere and introduce it to the void."

"Hmph. So just because they're pirates, we're free to go blow them up unprovoked? I was going to suggest we find a pirate station to do some hiring. We're in need of a lot more crew than we have here, preferably those who won't shrink from a fight. They may be unrefined, but they're better than hiring on farmers or mercenaries."
Logged
I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

Xvareon

  • Bay Watcher
  • Alias: Setokaiva
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2024, 09:07:19 am »

"How about 'Esperanza'? Basically, it means 'expectation' or 'great hopes'. Then we can call the AI 'Esper' or 'Espy'. It's jazzy and you can pronounce it while drunk. Better that than something like 'Deathbringer'—that's just inviting hubris. And a lot of hate."

Anyway, my vote right now is crew. Either we need bodies, or we need a bigass fleet of drones to work on this thing, or both. Jake Esperanza (assuming we take that name) will help out best he can on Diplomacy with that, and the Logistics no doubt needed to coordinate that kind of workforce.

We may still need to decide what we're really doing with this thing long term, but for now, let's head back towards civilized space, and while we're at it we can listen in on comm channels and get the news—who's putting up work contracts, whose head is out for a bounty, that sort of thing. Maybe if we can, we can try our hand at building some more robots with the machine shop to help with what we need on the ship, and also see if we can interface them with the AI.

EDIT: Just hit upon another idea. Can we probe the AI/computer's database of known target profiles? Like, does it have image recognition of what kind of targets it would recognize, what ship classes and size categories that would be known to it? If so, that might help us identify other ships from the same era. If it has target profiles, maybe it also has some rundown of known capabilities of those ships!
Spoiler: Character Sheet (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 04:51:04 pm by Xvareon »
Logged

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2024, 09:56:18 am »

Not sure how I feel about flying straight into highly populated space and attracting attention right now. We should be able to go into the relatively more populated (read: populated at all) rim of the nebula system and grab some recruits. Pirates won't exactly be as quick to tattle on us to the states as citizens, so...

Chart a course for an outer rim station. See if I can contact any old "buddies" from the pirate ecosystem and find a pirate cove. We're hiring! Bonuses include a bunk, food, and the opportunity to ride in the baddest ship around. We're not really doing the marauding thing right now, so standard payment in stolen loot won't be available, but we can scoop up some minerals and leave the crew with genuine imperial-era design luxury goods at the end of their service. We're not looking to hire on whole crews with captains and existing social networks, but anyone who's between crews. Whole crews with ships might get hired as escorts, since they can't get up to as much nonsense with a battleship as they can inside the hull.

(This is a pretty big strategic choice, so some more consensus from the other players may be needed. But I am the pilot, so is all else fails I think I decide where we go~)

Also, look into the fighter craft. Do they have much of an advantage over modern equivalents?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 11:19:58 am by Egan_BW »
Logged
I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

Xvareon

  • Bay Watcher
  • Alias: Setokaiva
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2024, 09:58:19 am »

Oh, I don't have a problem with starting off small at all. When I said 'civilized space' I more meant 'where we'd reliably find people', since in the middle of a recent supernova with choking radiation clouds is not.

NJW2000

  • Bay Watcher
  • You know me. What do I know?
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2024, 10:39:52 am »

"Holy Curie..."

Johanna has been walking the corridors of the battleship, first trying to inventory the wealth of ships, machines, components and devices, then finally giving up on counting and wandering the hangar in a distracted fugue.

"We can't sell this. First off, nobody has that kind of capital. This ship is beyond valuable. There's Old Empire techne here that isn't even in the legends. If anyone wants to retire rich, we can sell a couple of fighters, or fab a few billion credits worth of hardware while we refuel. There are blueprints here that are worth more than most planets."

"As for our own empire... you're thinking small. This thing isn't from our world any more. It can go anywhere, keep up with anything flying today... and if those jump drive sensors really work, it can see the goddamn future. This is our chance to give humanity a leg up. If we can keep hold of it long enough."



Johanna tries to determine the minimum crew needed to run the ship (with AI assistance) during various tasks such as an FTL jump, routine maintenance, refuelling, planetfall, heavy ship repair, space combat, and ground-to-space engagement.

She also inventories the current supplies of fuel and raw materials for manufacture.



Spoiler: Johanna Goodwood (click to show/hide)

"If we're talking about names, how about the Goodwood? Then we'd call Jake 'Jason Goodwood'! I've always wanted a kid brother."
Logged
One wheel short of a wagon

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2024, 10:58:15 am »

((If you need a faster answer, Dev's said to me that 600 is the minimum crew, 8000 is a full crew. The former number seems subject to change.))
Logged
I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

Radio Controlled

  • Bay Watcher
  • Morals? Ethics? Conscience? HA!
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2024, 11:14:13 am »

"Yeah, I agree with Kaitaryn here. That's like finding a gun in an alley and now you have to become a criminal and start extorting people.

If people really want to wet their beak, we can still find some pirate stronghold somewhere and introduce it to the void."
"Hmph. So just because they're pirates, we're free to go blow them up unprovoked? I was going to suggest we find a pirate station to do some hiring. We're in need of a lot more crew than we have here, preferably those who won't shrink from a fight. They may be unrefined, but they're better than hiring on farmers or mercenaries."

"I mean, better that than harassing some civilian worlds somewhere I'd say. For me, I'd still rather go exploring and discovering over shooting and conquering.

Either way, are you sure pirates are the kind of folks we want in on this? Or at least now, when we're still so undermanned? Maybe we could start with some merchant marine, people who know their way around a ship but without a great allegiance to some cause. Ex-navy or ex-law enforcement might be more suited but brings its own potential issues."


"Also, guys, before we jump anywhere, we should really repair the damage the ship already has and update the navcharts. I'll get started on the latter."

((I'm not gonna propose any ship name myself, but of the ones mentioned so far Esperanza sounds best to me. But let's see if more proposals pop up.))


Would it make sense to take the map data from our salvage ship and upload it to the big ship? The maps might not be very expansive but they should be up to date, right?

If yes, start doing so. Make sure to make a backup copy of the current map database first if possible.

If not, check what would be needed to repair that pierced tank in the hangar bay, and if there's more damaged parts.

Either way, try to get some AI assistance for the task (do we need to specify that, or is it assumed unless told otherwise?)


Spoiler: Character Sheet (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 12:41:23 pm by Radio Controlled »
Logged


Einsteinian Roulette Wiki
Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

Pancaek

  • Bay Watcher
  • Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2024, 03:29:20 pm »

Am I late to the party, or can I still join?
If yes, could you expand slightly on what the weapons, piloting, and ground combat specialities are used for? Is it purely for actions pertaining to our ship (meaning we're really supposed to stay on the ship at all times), or do they also function for using one of the smaller ships or making planetfall ourselves?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 05:28:00 pm by Pancaek »
Logged

Devastator

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2024, 04:20:09 pm »

You can join, yes.   Too late to vote on the ship, but you can absolutely join.

Weapons are for ship weapon use.  Using, examining, repairing and maintaining them.

Piloting is for driving spaceships, big and small.

Ground combat is for fighting personally.  Could be personal weapons, could be driving tanks around, could be ground warfare in general.  Very broad.  Being on ship is a most of the time thing, but you can leave it, and there are many ships other than your cruiser.
Logged

Pancaek

  • Bay Watcher
  • Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2024, 05:27:49 pm »

Spoiler: Ceglan (click to show/hide)

Long used to being in confined spaces, Ceglan takes a solitary walk through parts of the ship's corridors. Seeing as his fellows are busying themselves with looking around the big ship and the smaller spaceships, go and see if we have the following, ask the ship's AI for additional info if possible:
- Do we have an armoury (personal arms, armour/suits, other gear?)
- Ground based craft, both for combat and utility
- What defences this ship has for the inside? Meaning, what sort of systems are in place (if any) against boarding?
- Is there some sort of library?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2024, 05:29:37 pm by Pancaek »
Logged

IronyOwl

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nope~
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2024, 08:32:36 pm »

"How about 'Esperanza'? Basically, it means 'expectation' or 'great hopes'. Then we can call the AI 'Esper' or 'Espy'. It's jazzy and you can pronounce it while drunk. Better that than something like 'Deathbringer'—that's just inviting hubris. And a lot of hate."
"Hubris is what this vessel is, though. It was built at the height of an empire that could not sustain that pinnacle, and forever after were men jealous. It warrants something pompous and poetic, so I'll put forward 'Righteous Flaw'."

"As for our own empire... you're thinking small. This thing isn't from our world any more. It can go anywhere, keep up with anything flying today... and if those jump drive sensors really work, it can see the goddamn future. This is our chance to give humanity a leg up. If we can keep hold of it long enough."
"And how do you propose we go about that? Unity and defense against outside threats strikes me as our most routine possibility. We are otherwise ill suited for civilization building."

"Yeah, I agree with Kaitaryn here. That's like finding a gun in an alley and now you have to become a criminal and start extorting people.

If people really want to wet their beak, we can still find some pirate stronghold somewhere and introduce it to the void."
"Hmph. So just because they're pirates, we're free to go blow them up unprovoked? I was going to suggest we find a pirate station to do some hiring. We're in need of a lot more crew than we have here, preferably those who won't shrink from a fight. They may be unrefined, but they're better than hiring on farmers or mercenaries."

"I mean, better that than harassing some civilian worlds somewhere I'd say. For me, I'd still rather go exploring and discovering over shooting and conquering.

Either way, are you sure pirates are the kind of folks we want in on this? Or at least now, when we're still so undermanned? Maybe we could start with some merchant marine, people who know their way around a ship but without a great allegiance to some cause. Ex-navy or ex-law enforcement might be more suited but brings its own potential issues."

"More crew is more dangerous. To anyone outside this ship, we're invincible. To anyone standing right next to us, we're half a dozen scoundrels. If a dozen pirates decide they should be in charge instead, they might be right.

I agree we need more bodies somehow, but we should give careful thought to why they're going to do what we say instead of seizing the greatest treasure in the galaxy for themselves. Perhaps the AI would acknowledge and maintain a command structure as part of its directives?"



Leverage passive sensors to get a read on this system. Try to figure out what it can find and what it would miss.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: You are the crew of a Remnant Battleship.
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2024, 08:39:54 pm »

I listen, somewhat reclusively, to the various conversations and doings of my fine fellows also on this excellent ship.

Then I look into what the AI can tell me about robotic crew it perhaps can access or create, rapid-cloning development tech it may have, and other ideas it can suggest that might help us few become us-the-many, and adequate for the ship's needs.

I discuss the AI's understanding of what all these humans-in-the-loop are actually needed to do, and if we could handle information and decisions to support it while it does even more of the heavy lifting than originally expected/intended.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7