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Author Topic: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Game Over: Outplayed  (Read 7219 times)

Imp

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2024, 11:42:12 am »

CrystalizedMire and NJW what do you notice about this game as of whenever you get here to talk?
I notice this isn't really a question about anything. Or at least, it's not a question that a first post with any content wouldn't answer anyway. Is this suspicious?

It's not suspicious that Imp is inviting people into the game.

It is suspicious that Imp couldn't find something specific to ask about. That has never been a problem before.

Why do you think I couldn't find something specific to ask about?

Everything is choice.  Everything we do says stuff about the person saying it, but we all know that.  For now I am pretty observant, but that's not a problem.  If you look back on our past games, and others with me in it, I have reasons for all I do.  My early drives are often mechanics-focused, I often have a role that mechanically needs something or someone presents a problem that I want more info to see if can be fixed.  This game I don't have that kind of role.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2024, 12:31:28 pm »

If I am not mistaken, CrystalizedMire is not even on Discord and Fallacy has once again forgotten the importance of rounding up your players before starting. :P
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Starver

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2024, 12:58:58 pm »

First, apologies. I promised a morning revisit, but I was busy (OOC: also, away from the machine where I wanted to grapple with the Discord side-channel, so I might get to accept how it works before I ever needed any dead channel... looks like I also won't bother with an avatar).

Ok, so, I think there were a couple of things asked to respond to, maybe more I might do. But in reverse order:

Starver: apart from Tric, there haven't been any real pressure votes yet. How useful do you find vote pressure in your analyses D1?
Tricky. I know how I feel about PVs against me, but tend to be more stoic. i.e. a causeless vote is just as disputable (whether I'm Town or faking Town. Or even faking-faking Town, if I'm in that kind of position!) so until I get more inkling (perhaps any private knowledge, should I be in a position to get it) I treat a flinging around of these only as future landmines (or petards, for the flinger to be hoist upon), especially not a D1 casus beli upon anyone.  Also, if D1 is ever set up as LYLO, the players (all sides) have bigger problems.

That's how treat it as Town, myself. Obviously I would treat it the same (outwardly) if I'm not town, too. Or, in other words, I'm perfectly capable of looking just as scummy whatever my role.
Quote
Also, why did you say this:

[1] Which is a bit more than Log(10) and only slightly less than √10.
?
Yeah, slight error. If I was being analytical, I should be considering Log(9) and √10, with only one  of those now being irrational! (By which I mean, in studying interactions, the absence of (at that time) three whole players from the discussion leaves a big hole in the nominal matrix of information.) And obviously I'm already 'known', so... Or maybe I should still include me? So I know what to think someone should think that I'm thinking!  :P

In short, was just me being me.


Crystal notice to actually post this game. I know that if you don't post today you won't post tomorrow, and that's terrible.
Agree, at the very least out of general concern. I remember falling out of a game (the last one I played here?) due to hardware failure, and it never really got noted for the longest time.

(Of course, there's bastard roles where this is a requirement, at least at times. I trust it's not that in this case, but always a chance. A "D1 Mute (+Lynchproof?)" balance to a late-game uber-power might stretch "mostly vanilla", however.)

Anyway, waiting. But still don't expect a 'full house' to lead to any great prognostication.

is 15 hours too long? or still within reasonable doubt of them at least posting first day?
Knowing my own situation (tried to respond from 01:30ish to 02:30ish, this morning, every ten minutes got 504ed, really wanted to finish my response and power down), maybe grant some leeway. Also weekend commitments (planned or otherwise). 24 hours as a baseline, then additional allowances. But not forever, obviously. MercyKill always an option. (Beware the Mute Hammerkiller, though!) ModKill might or might not be (usually not, for balance, or because it is a Mute role), or call for another replacement. Hopefully it won't get that far. Unless it needs to.

Starver, reasonable enough to wait and see. How about asking someone a question? Like CrystallizedMire, perhaps?
I actually quite like the questions that others are asking. Passive radar, which gives a twofer effect for building up a picture of both parties! Though I'll also waffle on, gladly, for whatever motive. That's just my (mildly contradictive) way. Let's see where it leads us. :p

(group of 8)
ha.
*(group of 8 )
Click the "+ Attachments and other options", if you realise this might happen, and tickbox "[ ] Don't use smileys." Or (to allow smileys elsewhere) something like 8[i][/i]) -> 8) might work. But, of course, you have to know you're potentially tripping that issue. (This has been a totally OOC Public Service Announcement...)
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NJW2000

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2024, 01:23:57 pm »

Yeah, slight error. If I was being analytical, I should be considering Log(9) and √10, with only one  of those now being irrational! (By which I mean, in studying interactions, the absence of (at that time) three whole players from the discussion leaves a big hole in the nominal matrix of information.) And obviously I'm already 'known', so... Or maybe I should still include me? So I know what to think someone should think that I'm thinking!  :P
Thank you for clarifying.


Why do you think I couldn't find something specific to ask about?

Everything is choice.  Everything we do says stuff about the person saying it, but we all know that.  For now I am pretty observant, but that's not a problem.  If you look back on our past games, and others with me in it, I have reasons for all I do.  My early drives are often mechanics-focused, I often have a role that mechanically needs something or someone presents a problem that I want more info to see if can be fixed.  This game I don't have that kind of role.
I suppose a better way to put it would be that you didn't ask about anything specific.

I'm willing to buy the idea that you don't currently have a strong desire to set up or understand something mechanical. Other games I've seen you in this has not been the case, but these games had different mechanics.

The fact that you asked a question that would be answered by any observation about the setup or thread so far... that is more interesting. It was not an attempt to elicit specific information, nor was it likely to make CM or I say anything we wouldn't anyway.

CrystalizedMire and NJW what do you notice about this game as of whenever you get here to talk?

What was this question intended to achieve, other than talking?
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Imp

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2024, 01:43:32 pm »

I actually quite like the questions that others are asking. Passive radar, which gives a twofer effect for building up a picture of both parties! Though I'll also waffle on, gladly, for whatever motive. That's just my (mildly contradictive) way. Let's see where it leads us. :p

Why do you like the exact questions being asked this game?  Are enough being asked?

We have about 30 hours of play left, baring mod adjustment which is possible but 'a drag on players and mod' per the mod.  Are you/why are you comfortable that the needed info is being asked/answered?

I'm quite interested in your reads before end of day, and seeing how that intertwines with your contentment of the questions asked/answered.  That's true of everyone, but maybe a little more focused in your case, perhaps because I think waffles are delicious but maybe not a typical addition to a mostly-vanilla-syrup mafia games and I wonder how they help or harm us.

What was this question intended to achieve, other than talking?

Observation.  Probably translates to talking for you.  However, there is a difference between 'I'm here now and I do whatever' and reaction to being asked what one's noticed once one's here and talking.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

TricMagic

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2024, 01:49:36 pm »

... Imp, no offense but having just come out of a private chat recently this does not feel like town you.
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Imp

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2024, 02:04:50 pm »

... Imp, no offense but having just come out of a private chat recently this does not feel like town you.

You've seen me scum.  I was solo there.  I've shared the link to my favorite team-maf game, where I led my team to victory on D7, having openly been maf since D4.  https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/46188-Witch-Hunt-VI-Semi-Invitational

I'm town, and as always no matter what my alignment, affected by life circumstances and role way more than alignment.  I said it would help me to have another maf game, and it does, but I am in the process of having to leave my best friend/roommate suddenly because of his needs and circumstances, to find a new place to live and how to get there without a vehicle, and have to leave my job with short notice, and get fully packed and out of where I've lived, all during the pandemic and as another surge looks like it's starting, like right now.

This game's totally stress relief even more than normal.  I'm going to give this game all I have, for however long I have.  Someone is D1 elim, I'll be disappointed if I hurt town by being a waste of our D1 elim, but that does sometimes happen.  I'm going to hunt and use my role for however long I have, and if I don't feel like me - I haven't been in this life situation before.

So, I recommend use today as best you can, I will too.  There's the same number of anti-town to find if I'm the elim, and I'll do what I can today to try and help find them, no matter what else happens; will for all the game time I have.
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2024, 02:13:24 pm »

Fallacy, could we get a prod for CrystalizedMire in case all the many factors make it harder for her to find/notice the game has started?
If I am not mistaken, CrystalizedMire is not even on Discord and Fallacy has once again forgotten the importance of rounding up your players before starting. :P

Awkward, that. I've sent out a prod. Crystal does have a Discord account, but she hasn't joined the server yet.

Day ends Sunday, so we've got time. I'm willing to extend if necessary, but if we reach the end of the first Day without Crystal showing up, I'll probably have to look for another replacement.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

Crystalizedmire

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2024, 02:47:41 pm »

As tradition, I announce my Millerness. Investigations will result in a mafia outcome.

Anyone want to claim Masons? Discord says they should be superkilled~
Wow, what a coincindence. Im also a miller!/j
CrystalizedMire and NJW what do you notice about this game as of whenever you get here to talk?
Im pretty sure Tricmagic is joking about being a miller but I dont think Ive seen scum claim being a miller before so Im inclined to think he is town.

FOU: yeah sorry
Euchrejack: Ive never noticed that Tric attacks the first person who accuses him of being town before. Huh
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2024, 03:34:05 pm »

It would be really funny if it was Crystmas and Tric together.
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NJW2000

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2024, 04:22:51 pm »

What was this question intended to achieve, other than talking?

Observation.  Probably translates to talking for you.  However, there is a difference between 'I'm here now and I do whatever' and reaction to being asked what one's noticed once one's here and talking.
That last part is definitely true, though the difference may be a slim one.



It would be really funny if it was Crystmas and Tric together.
If Tric has been pushing a policy elim on his scumbuddy, that's a play I'd respect the hell out of.

How likely do you think it is that there's mafia in Tric and Imp?



Starver: how do you feel about D1 no eliminations? Are they preferable to a panicked rush in the last few hours?
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notquitethere

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2024, 04:41:07 pm »

so, notquitethere, i assume bay12 takes it’s d1 vote seriously?
Well, yes and no. It's usually considered important that someone is eliminated, as it's information, but who picks who is isn't strongly weighted because town don't actually know anything at this stage. It's not completely weightless though, as people can still have insincere cases...

I think it's poor/scummy/self-incriminating play of a kind showing town motives.
I'll try and play poorly then! Jokes aside, there's something in this-- being sloppy is often what gets town eliminated but is often what should show they were town to begin with.

Imp

You say "Intent interwoven through personal expression/style over time" - is that the intention of the scumhunter, or what the town player is looking for in other players?
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Imp

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2024, 05:05:04 pm »

Imp

You say "Intent interwoven through personal expression/style over time" - is that the intention of the scumhunter, or what the town player is looking for in other players?

That's what I consider the most important thing about scumhunting, from the lessons I learned.

Imp, what's the most important lesson you've learned for scumhunting?

Each person's intent, what each appears to be trying to do.

It applies to scumhunting/scumhunters, what each person is actually trying to do/moving towards.  It applies to town players and what each looks for in someone else, what each person appears to miss and catch.  Meta's a huge part of it, if meta's available.  It applies to people fake scumhunting, or trying to assemble their emerald collection, or trying to save themself and get someone else elim, or trying to amass as many votes as possible before they die.

I don't know what each person's intent or role is, I piece that together through interaction, observation, feel of what each is progressing towards - and that balance and feel is the most important scumhunting lesson I've learned so far.

What's the most important lesson you've learned for scumhunting?
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

notquitethere

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2024, 05:13:28 pm »

What's the most important lesson you've learned for scumhunting?
Finding town is easier and often more directly useful than finding scum: if you manage to get a core of town players who trust one another, then it massively narrows the pool from which you have to pick eliminations.

You've played enough games with TricMagic to see now. Does he have a towntell?
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TricMagic

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Re: Mostly Vanilla Mafia 4 / Day 1: An Abundance of Suspicion (10 / 10)
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2024, 05:14:29 pm »

Unvote

Pretty sure Max is town. That joking atmosphere is Town Max 100% Day 1. Behold the metareads. I am tired from Gym.
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