Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[FallacyofUrist]

Well, I was visited by TricMagic, and apparently someone used Bite on me.

Sorry, CM.

Yeah, I should be able to win as the last player alive.

[Imp]

I did use Mirror Stance on Night 1.

Oh, doh.  There's our Vamp.  Tric targeted to feed or whatever (feed was my request) N2.  So it got mirrored.

Meaning there's never been a phase without an undead in play.

And at this point, I don't think there can be if several others don't lose instead.  Because this gets pretty awkward if FoU isn't the last alive.  As in, Max has to cooperate like heck.  And he's pretty disinterested, I don't think we can expect that.

Under somewhat different circumstances I could try to force it; because of the many intricacies involved I think Max could talk his way out of that trap, being also able to think his way through it if annoyed enough to try.  Plus if I don't die soon, 2 other players lose or I lose (and maybe others too).

So, my best thinking suggests I probably have to let CM's win go.  Sorry, CM.

[Imp]

Oh.

Given timing of everything.

How many Modifiers do you have currently, FoU?

[Maximum Spin]

He's got mine already from when I gave the candy, then, so at least 2...

Has Verm acted on Fallacy? Fallacy should be able to leave tonight (or arbitrarily) by eating candy.

[Maximum Spin]

Wait, I forgot the days started from 0, so it was d1 when I gave out candy.

[Imp]

He's got mine already from when I gave the candy, then, so at least 2...

Has Verm acted on Fallacy? Fallacy should be able to leave tonight (or arbitrarily) by eating candy.

Yeah.  If everything's true.  Fal would have vamp; if Max has a modifier AND can give a DIFFERENT one through candy.  If Max targeted FoU N2, then FoU has Max's Mirrorable one - otherwise just the candy one.

If not, FoU said activated Mirror N1.  So a visit N0 or N1 would not pass the modifiers those targeting FoU had at that time, presuming all is true and correctly understood.

Well, I was visited by TricMagic, and apparently someone used Bite on me.

Sorry, CM.

Yeah, I should be able to win as the last player alive.

Fou, if you agree to this plan, then everyone but CM can win.

It requires you to honestly have not eaten your Red candy yet, and to hold off on that, and hopes like intense heck that Max thinks it's okay not to give you his modifier when he can again.

Fou, your part of the plan would mean:

Elim me today with Max's and Verm's help (Max, you'll help that, please?).  I'd vote but Max decided to assent for me.

N3 activate your mirror again.  ((Max, please be generous and don't give FoU an extra modifier again?))

Tomorrow, D4, vote Yes with Max and Verm.

N4, feed on Verm.  He targets you too, so you'll get your 3rd modifier there from him.

D5, eat your candy.

How does this sound to everyone?

Max, you literally hold my wincon I think.  If you choose to bestow your modifer on mirrored FoU, I think they win faster than my recheck for winning when Verm goes Vamp.  FoU would be out then, not needing to eat the candy.  I'd lose.

I can fight and try to win 'in case you do that'.  Ensures at bare minimum Juice and Verm lose, there's just too much going on and I don't think Verm can catch all the players needed in time and huge chance I win before I die, oops.

So I think I'd prefer to say 'So, wanna let me?  I don't think it hurts you to allow it.'

[Imp]

He's got mine already from when I gave the candy, then, so at least 2...

Has Verm acted on Fallacy? Fallacy should be able to leave tonight (or arbitrarily) by eating candy.

Verm doesn't even have his modifier yet.  It doesn't exist, but thanks to your modifier FoU doesn't necessarily instalose if Verm loses because if Verm can get yours - if you're still in play or force give it.

Once I'm dead, FoU can....

Oh right. this branch of the plan only needs FoU to be vamp, not verm.  No need to feed on verm.

The many branches I tried to find a win for all on.  It is a complex tree.

But FoU can scratch the bite of Verm, since FoU's the last alive and has monster status for me --- in that plan if we do it.

[Maximum Spin]

Yeah.  If everything's true.  Fal would have vamp; if Max has a modifier AND can give a DIFFERENT one through candy.

I can, yeah.

As to your wincon, I have no particular need to act on anyone (anyone who can have candy and is alive has my candy already) so no worries about Fallacy catching [Campaigning]. Nor would I benefit in any way from that happening.

[FallacyofUrist]

Oh.

Given timing of everything.

How many Modifiers do you have currently, FoU?

Two, Vampire and Yes-Voting.

I have not used the Red Candy, since you mentioned earlier that using it too soon would screw over someone else.

[Maximum Spin]

He's got mine already from when I gave the candy, then, so at least 2...

Has Verm acted on Fallacy? Fallacy should be able to leave tonight (or arbitrarily) by eating candy.

Verm doesn't even have his modifier yet.  It doesn't exist, but thanks to your modifier FoU doesn't necessarily instalose if Verm loses because if Verm can get yours - if you're still in play or force give it.

Oh, and I was asking because Vermin would lose if Fallacy won otherwise, not about Fallacy getting that modifier.

To be clear, I acted on Fallacy D1, which was really the second day, so for a moment I was misunderstanding Fallacy having used Mirror Stance on night 1 (the second, not the first, night) as catching my modifier. The candy I gave also gives a separate modifier, and I understand you also provided a candy with a modifier (if I'm not mistaken), which would, along with [vampire], have brought the total to four.

[Imp]

Yeah.  If everything's true.  Fal would have vamp; if Max has a modifier AND can give a DIFFERENT one through candy.

I can, yeah.

As to your wincon, I have no particular need to act on anyone (anyone who can have candy and is alive has my candy already) so no worries about Fallacy catching [Campaigning]. Nor would I benefit in any way from that happening.

If you have any interest in being the hero that saves CM too, instead of just 5 of us winning, I'll try to map that path.

It is a VERY carefully timed one, it involves the last vamp in play biting you the night before they win, then you wait through the day doing nothing except allowing CM to finally win (maybe vote no elim, but that's not needed) so you incubate and bring vampire back into play that night (I win then at last), then you finally vote Yes.

Very boring --- very heroic.  CM has no chance without you agreeing to follow the complex and slow steps (Well, I could lose so CM wins... I don't prefer that answer.  This long-slow path allows all wins I think.  I just didn't think you'd agree so no reason to calculate it... it is complex).

If you're interested let me know.  You're literally the only one of us now that could make it happen.

[Imp]

And I keep talking about '5 winning' and keep forgetting to mention Juice winning -

That's the other kind of slip, not that I am trying to work around him.

I rewrote my wincon in my mind, so I presume I can only win while dead.  That ensures he wins too, while removing some number of wins for me that make him (and usually also Verm) lose.

But all 7 of us probably can still win, if Max has that level of patience.

[Maximum Spin]

Yeah.  If everything's true.  Fal would have vamp; if Max has a modifier AND can give a DIFFERENT one through candy.

I can, yeah.

As to your wincon, I have no particular need to act on anyone (anyone who can have candy and is alive has my candy already) so no worries about Fallacy catching [Campaigning]. Nor would I benefit in any way from that happening.

If you have any interest in being the hero that saves CM too, instead of just 5 of us winning, I'll try to map that path.

It is a VERY carefully timed one, it involves the last vamp in play biting you the night before they win, then you wait through the day doing nothing except allowing CM to finally win (maybe vote no elim, but that's not needed) so you incubate and bring vampire back into play that night (I win then at last), then you finally vote Yes.

Very boring --- very heroic.  CM has no chance without you agreeing to follow the complex and slow steps (Well, I could lose so CM wins... I don't prefer that answer.  This long-slow path allows all wins I think.  I just didn't think you'd agree so no reason to calculate it... it is complex).

If you're interested let me know.  You're literally the only one of us now that could make it happen.

ppffft, sure, okay. I guess doing something that needlessly overcomplicated would be worth paying attention for. I assume this also means that I'm, at the end, playing mafia by myself for at least two days? Poor NJW.

[Maximum Spin]

So do I vote you today under this lengthy plan, or no?

[Imp]

So do I vote you today under this lengthy plan, or no?

You'd be the last alive for 1.5 days.  Hopefully NJW would be open to a shorten there, or maybe there's a flaw in the plan that means it can't be done.  I'll start confirming either way now since you're potentially interested.

And yeah about vote Imp.

All paths I'm interested in involve my death (and I can win while alive, as long as I'm not the last alive at any point - I just need you all to be monsters who are still alive.  But that win ensures Juice's loss - so I forget Juice and forget that I can win while alive.  I gotta die, and really soon).

It'll be many minutes, maybe hours before I have the plan mapped.

If anyone wants to mention anything odd they haven't discussed yet, like another ability or whatever, be great to hear.