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[TricMagic]

@Imp target me tonight please.

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Interesting phrasing here. You seem to imply suspicion of Fallacy, but opt to kill juicebox without commenting on what his alignment could be. What are your thoughts on juicebox now?

Unrelated, one of the mafia have outed themselves already. Kind of sad honestly. If anyone actually has a daykill or something like that let me know so that I can direct it, thanks.

A Mater of culture I see? Or just illusions?
Why do you want to direct a kill? From the phrasing you want people to target you.

[Oliverz144]

Imp the fruit You mentioned is a so called Fruit vendor role (Encyclopedia Link: wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fruit_Vendor)
A fruit vendor is a role that can target a player each night and gift them a fruit (or similiar, ergo an more or less useless item that fits the flavour of the game) anonymously .
With Mafia kills usually being not multi-task able, this leads to the fruit vendor showing themself as town to the people it gifts the items to as soon as those discussion/revelation happens in the public thread or certain private group chats

Fallacy i find Your fascination about fear is ... fascinating

Juicebox, my playstyle is crazy, like really really crazy, but since im merely a wellcommed guest in your community, i am trying to adapt and honor Your rituals and grooves

Trig, i like Your judicial look on Magmas Fancy Play Role Fish. What is Your verdict?

Also, i live in Central Europe, it appears as day starting and ending times are around 2AM for me =)

[TricMagic]

Guilty I think. Redirecting kills makes no sense. That's effectively death to mafia. A lot of people got confused about what I would allow in a bastard game, and this isn't one. Elephant, can mafia end up killing themselves if they got their kill redirected into themselves?

[VermilionSkies]

Magma Mater, Oliverz144, VermilionSkies, Wolfkey, I have the same question for all of you. Since I've never played with any of you before I'd like for you to tell me what your mafia playstyle is like.

I don't think I've played enough Mafia to have a particular playstyle, really, but I do enjoy the process of understanding what people mean with their actions.
I do believe I'm too passive most of the time, though.

That said, I am curious. Magma, how are you so certain of your claim this early?

[4maskwolf]

Y'all...

Generally "directing the kill" means that one wants to decide who the kill targets, not a literal redirect, unless stated otherwise by the player.

[Imp]

Imp the fruit You mentioned is a so called Fruit vendor role (Encyclopedia Link: wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fruit_Vendor)
A fruit vendor is a role that can target a player each night and gift them a fruit (or similiar, ergo an more or less useless item that fits the flavour of the game) anonymously .
With Mafia kills usually being not multi-task able, this leads to the fruit vendor showing themself as town to the people it gifts the items to as soon as those discussion/revelation happens in the public thread or certain private group chats

This is incredibly important for everyone to know, that actions can be used to hide other actions.

It's also important to know this:  Bay12 mafia games often tend towards high complexity, we already should not expect that any individual mafia (or town or third party) player definitely has only 1 action, or that mafiakill definitely is not free or that the mafiakill definitely cannot be done with another action that may even affect a different target.  If that kind of power is in the hands of evil, some sort of balancing power will be in the hands of good (or the game's bastard, I didn't see that in our OP though).

But it's common for games in B12 to have a variable range of power roles in them, 1 player might have a very normal-looking role, another player might have a complex and intricate role.  The power will be balanced between teams, not necessarily players.

Whatever role you see tells you something about what exists in the game, but it can't tell you that stuff stronger or weaker than your role will not exist.

But for the love of each individual wincon, glad you spoke up, don't PRESUME every player already starts with just 1 action per cycle either once or even all the time.  That MAY be true.  It does not have to be true and it's deep in B12 lore for roles and abilities to have potentially unexpected components.

For me, I plan to be pretty open about who I have given a 1-shot fruit give ability to AFTER I give it (it may end up something other than give fruit, but give fruit is possible, we have to rely on the recipient to tell us, and their recipient who may or may not confirm they get the fruit if there's no redirect involved there either) the following day, presuming I'm alive to discuss.

I can't ensure I don't get redirected or something.  In fact, this could even be intended to be part of detecting redirects.  I have no idea why I have this weird thing, if it's supposed to allow for 'duds' or if this fruit that seems useless from my view actually has a key use for someone else that's willing to discuss - because it's entirely possible that someone has a role that needs apparently useless objects, we saw that in NQT's BYOS game or that someone can use the object in an unexpected way if only they have it or someone else does.

But I am super interested in seeing what people say about this, who is interested and if they say why, and if anyone does let us know they need to give items, get items (that can be just items, or specific ones) or if they specifically need fruit.  That helps me understand the game better too, and helps me decide who I want or don't want to target with this.

Guilty I think. Redirecting kills makes no sense. That's effectively death to mafia. A lot of people got confused about what I would allow in a bastard game, and this isn't one. Elephant, can mafia end up killing themselves if they got their kill redirected into themselves?

Tricmagic, what about http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.0 where you were the D1 elim but the N1 mafiakill was a spectacular focus of the game, all N1 kills were forced to target 1 of 2 people, both of whom were evil.  Evil hatched a plan to redirect the kill to a person not-evil, the evil person doing this got roleblocked so the evil team ended up actually killing one of their own.

FBYOR included the D1 redirected nightkill of Sofanthiel, who revived but

If I am not mistaken, Egan_BW attempted to kill notquitethere but accidentally killed sofanthiel.

I'm totally cool with any of us asking the mod anything, great idea.  But... redirected mafiakills (and vigs are also not immune to redirects unless expressly immune, right?) has been a noteworthy part of some B12 games, yeah?

[juicebox]

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Not quite the reasoning I was expecting but still a decent answer.

[Crystalizedmire]

magmamater: is there any reason why youre not sharing your top maf pick?
And is the player you think is maf, juicebox?

[Elephant Parade]

Guilty I think. Redirecting kills makes no sense. That's effectively death to mafia. A lot of people got confused about what I would allow in a bastard game, and this isn't one. Elephant, can mafia end up killing themselves if they got their kill redirected into themselves?

Yes, the Mafiakill can kill Mafia.

[TricMagic]

You know how little that arrows it down Imp. Given I got lynched D1? While asleep as usual.

4mask, Magma wants people (specifically Imp) to target them. They outright said it. Combined with saying they want to direct the daykill, and that doesn't feel town. That feels SK.

[FallacyofUrist]

Fallacy i find Your fascination about fear is ... fascinating

What is fascinating about it? The use of it as a tool? The way I drive it home? The way it animates my character and gives me the strength to pursue the endless devouring of those wretched traitors we call scum?

Come now, surely you have more to say than that.

I would ask you the question, but I doubt you are familiar enough with this player base to answer well.

Instead, I'll ask you this.

How do you plan on selecting your vote, choosing who you believe is most scum?

Juicebox, my playstyle is crazy, like really really crazy

After all, I can accept this, we have no share of absurd playstyles here. But how will it lead you to success~?

Guilty I think. Redirecting kills makes no sense. That's effectively death to mafia. A lot of people got confused about what I would allow in a bastard game, and this isn't one. Elephant, can mafia end up killing themselves if they got their kill redirected into themselves?

A little silly, yes, but webadict would allow it, and I'd allow it. That's one of the reasons why 2 mafia 2 town isn't endgame if one of the 2 town has a redirect or bus.

Guilty I think. Redirecting kills makes no sense. That's effectively death to mafia. A lot of people got confused about what I would allow in a bastard game, and this isn't one. Elephant, can mafia end up killing themselves if they got their kill redirected into themselves?

Yes, the Mafiakill can kill Mafia.

As expected.

You know how little that arrows it down Imp. Given I got lynched D1? While asleep as usual.

4mask, Magma wants people (specifically Imp) to target them. They outright said it. Combined with saying they want to direct the daykill, and that doesn't feel town. That feels SK.

It's as good a first vote as any, I suppose. It's also a bad vote. What parts of Magma Mater's behavior supports your claims, hm~?

snip

You say little, but your taste is not rotten. I do believe I agree with your read of CrystalizedMire - at least for now.

[4maskwolf]

Tric being weirdly paranoid about things is very classic town TricMagic. My only reservation is that he's specifically paranoid about an SK which is a fairly wolfy things to be worried about on D1 with no evidence of their existance.

[TricMagic]

Either I'm right and remove a concern, or I'm wrong and have one less target to check. I can't see innate abilities, only regular ones.

[Imp]

Tric being weirdly paranoid about things is very classic town TricMagic. My only reservation is that he's specifically paranoid about an SK which is a fairly wolfy things to be worried about on D1 with no evidence of their existance.

Tric's like the classic SK thinker though   Even when Tric requests roles, so related to this game, SK-related concepts are like core there.  Our FBYOR game, a totally wish-fulfillment game to my sense of it, he was a town dragon with ways to kill that could self-convert to an SK (or not, he got to decide based on how he used abilities) and even make his own SK-allies in the process.

Because it's Tric, I don't read 'thinks about SK/thinks like an SK' as a wolfy thing from him, it's NAI to my mind.

I wanna hear more from magma before end of day.  I'm mildly concerned but more confused; I'd rather be a lot less confused and find confusion a reason for concern, but we got time.

What I think Mater's implying/claiming:

If someone has a day action, maybe if someone has specifically a day kill, if only Mater knows who to target he can force that target to who he chooses.

Mater, if you meant something else by

If anyone actually has a daykill or something like that let me know so that I can direct it, thanks.

I really need you to clarify, and I really need to think about what you actually mean, because as is you're also claiming to have ID an anti-town that you want day-vigged without telling us WHO or WHY.

That's a huge amount of trust to put in you in many ways - your judgement, your alignment, even your ability to predict and navigate what ElephantParade would and would not put into the game.

Plus maybe someone can mess with your messing with targeting, I can't rule that out.

So I'ma want to hear a lot more from you.

And we should hear about who you think is evil, and why, so we can be prepared to do the normal elim thing.

As is, I have to consider if you're maybe sending messages to an ally you can't privately chat with in a way we might miss.

I'm a lot less direct and aggressive than Tric (before I'm sure of a target, if I'm sure I'm plenty aggressive), but I'm also concerned.  I also figure Mater's gonna talk more today though.  But Mater, I want to make sure you have some idea how weird your 'unrelated' sounds to at least me.  Are you pretty much brand new to mafia games on this forum?  I see 13 pages of posts from you entire, and a 'mostly vanilla mafia' and a 'newbie mafia' (But I don't know those games and I see you replying to post calling the mod a bastard, I barely skimmed a couple posts from a couple pages of your entire posts list), so maybe you've just played in what we might call the shallow end and don't get how weird/scary/problematic your approach could be - but I really want to hear more before you maybe go to the isle of monsters, cause I'm not sure if I want you lost to us.

[Magma Mater]

Imp the fruit You mentioned is a so called Fruit vendor role (Encyclopedia Link: wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fruit_Vendor)
A fruit vendor is a role that can target a player each night and gift them a fruit (or similiar, ergo an more or less useless item that fits the flavour of the game) anonymously .
With Mafia kills usually being not multi-task able, this leads to the fruit vendor showing themself as town to the people it gifts the items to as soon as those discussion/revelation happens in the public thread or certain private group chats

It's also important to know this:  Bay12 mafia games often tend towards high complexity, we already should not expect that any individual mafia (or town or third party) player definitely has only 1 action, or that mafiakill definitely is not free or that the mafiakill definitely cannot be done with another action that may even affect a different target.  If that kind of power is in the hands of evil, some sort of balancing power will be in the hands of good (or the game's bastard, I didn't see that in our OP though).

Suspicious post. It's incredibly standard (like 99+% of games) to make mafiakills free, the OP even states that mafiakills are free this game. This post reads like mafia trying to convince town that he doesn't know anything about the mafia abilities, or trying too hard not to scumslip.

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Not quite the reasoning I was expecting but still a decent answer.

Why is it decent?

I wanna hear more from magma before end of day.  I'm mildly concerned but more confused; I'd rather be a lot less confused and find confusion a reason for concern, but we got time.

What I think Mater's implying/claiming:

If someone has a day action, maybe if someone has specifically a day kill, if only Mater knows who to target he can force that target to who he chooses.

Mater, if you meant something else by

If anyone actually has a daykill or something like that let me know so that I can direct it, thanks.

I really need you to clarify, and I really need to think about what you actually mean, because as is you're also claiming to have ID an anti-town that you want day-vigged without telling us WHO or WHY.

That's a huge amount of trust to put in you in many ways - your judgement, your alignment, even your ability to predict and navigate what ElephantParade would and would not put into the game.

Plus maybe someone can mess with your messing with targeting, I can't rule that out.

So I'ma want to hear a lot more from you.

And we should hear about who you think is evil, and why, so we can be prepared to do the normal elim thing.

As is, I have to consider if you're maybe sending messages to an ally you can't privately chat with in a way we might miss.

I'm a lot less direct and aggressive than Tric (before I'm sure of a target, if I'm sure I'm plenty aggressive), but I'm also concerned.  I also figure Mater's gonna talk more today though.  But Mater, I want to make sure you have some idea how weird your 'unrelated' sounds to at least me.  Are you pretty much brand new to mafia games on this forum?  I see 13 pages of posts from you entire, and a 'mostly vanilla mafia' and a 'newbie mafia' (But I don't know those games and I see you replying to post calling the mod a bastard, I barely skimmed a couple posts from a couple pages of your entire posts list), so maybe you've just played in what we might call the shallow end and don't get how weird/scary/problematic your approach could be - but I really want to hear more before you maybe go to the isle of monsters, cause I'm not sure if I want you lost to us.

By "direct" I meant as a director directs a movie. I just want to tell people what to do. I don't have a role so I can't redirect anyone.
I have over 10 years of mafia experience, so I'm not new. I actually learned about Dwarf Fortress from some older players from this site - Neruz and Leafsnail. Kinda hoping they come back to play one day.
That said, I've refined my playstyle to the point where it could look strange to others. There is a method to the madness.


Unrelated again, the person who outed themselves earlier has continued to scumpost for some reason. They should probably just stop posting.