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[4maskwolf]

Oh boy I botched those quotes later on oops.

Lemme fix that post in a spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am not voting at this time because I'm not ready for the day to end.  I am concerned about hammers and concerned that there's other evil folks even if you are evil, maybe multiples, all of whom might be VERY happy for their own independent or not reasons to hammer someone with a reasonably towny reason to be hammered.  I'm also aware despite my inspect result, you COULD be something other than mafia, and I want that info, along with loads more info.  Even with the red on you, I'm scared AP could be an arsonist, there could be other problems to solve especially if we can potentially pin you with a roleblock or something, should we decide to.  All that requires more time to talk.

But if you live and are able to target me with anything non-lethal (while I'm alive, I can't act after death of my own abilities), I specifically invite you to target me should you choose, I'd be interested in inspecting you again and seeing how that result compares once you're 'among the counted'.  That said, that's pretty low priority for me, I want to find anti-town and if we're letting you live and not pinning you, apparently we think you're not a problem and I need to find anti-town more than I need to check out interesting puzzles.

It's personally quite amusing to me that you suspect AP is a fruit vendor arsonist because I've died to that exact role before over on MU, it was an SK role in my first mash.

I am curious why you're concerned about hammering today when D1 you were perfectly happy to hammer no elimination early. It was only 30 minutes early but it still cut off discussion.

Alright mostly caught up now.

I'm utterly baffled by the way Imp played that reveal.

Why would you assume I was "hiding saying shit shit shit", how was I supposed to know I was peeked. The only information I got given was that I received a one-shot track. Which you should know, it's your role.

Why, the moment I claimed I received the one-shot on N1, did you not just claim your peek. I've already given the mechanical confirmation that was needed, there's no need to slow role the reveal, it doesn't really benefit anyone.

Like the bizarre timing and accusations around the claim feel like a wolf rolepeeked me, saw I was a miller N1, and wasn't sure if they should go for the kill until I was afk for several days.

You have an interesting interpretation of my behavior.

So, I expected (and still expect) you to play.  You could be busy; we went into weekend.

Your 1st post today seemed pretty different from the other posts you made D1.  I asked and asked and checked and hoped.  You think I wanna claim inspect if you're even maybe not actually maf?  Why are you seeing/claiming 'Imp must be evil intentioned' instead of seeing a player that wants to find evil and if you're not it doesn't want to reveal what they are and how they've been hunting for evil?

If I'm evil intentioned, why would I set it up this way, why do you think I think you and exactly you need to die?  I clearly have a VERY intricate and multifaceted set of role abilities if my wincon's 'elim 4maskwolf'  But if I'm evil, any town would do, and it's not best for me to claim cop there, there's other ways to do it, and clearly NONE of the suspected folk are acceptable to me, PLUS from D3 I'm ready to have my supposed 'red' flips all flip green, or I'm cool with you flippin' whatever you do then I just call everyone else green, I guess?

Not sure what you think I'm doin', you're thinking weird to even think that early in, to my thoughts.  So I wonder if you are indeed scum going 'umm, so!', maybe totally honest about your out-of-game situation, sorry for that, I have kinda similar and this game just lucked out to get me cosy with wanting to focus on it.

I took days to get to that 'Okay, so, 4mask is hiding scum?' because that does match the pattern.  I'm not used to you not posting for multiple real life days of game time, for all this is a VERY long D3 in terms of real life hours.  Could the fact you fear a red inspect on you, paired to getting the ability, and my statements about Vermilion who also got an ability probably from me being a problem to you?  I thought maybe so.  It's a maybe; I only know mech.

I struggle to see how non-evil you could think my reveal seems scummy.  I don't look like a cop hoping to only reveal if I really had a good reason to, and really needed to, to you why?

I don't think you specifically need me dead, I think that if you're a wolf and role peeked me this is probably exactly how you'd play it. You know how my role works and know you have plausible deniability for my flip.

What pattern does it match, exactly? My wolf pattern? My wolf pattern is high activity, same as town, so me not posting for two days would generally be assumed to be real-life related (as it was) rather than alignment related.

Like this explanation makes no sense to me. "your first post today looked different from yesterday" Yeah it was a one-line confirmation that I'd received a gift I'm not sure what you'd expect it to look like?

You ask why I didn't think you were a cop slowrolling it and it could well be the case, but you didn't play it like one. Your posts are massive so I admit I mostly skimmed them when I was catching up but you didn't apply pressure or even vote me on grounds unrelated to your claim to hide the fact that you'd peeked me from my potential scumbuddies, you just vagueposted about my inactivity and claimed a peek.

If I understand the mech correctly exactly one of Vermillion or Oliverz is a wolf.

According to my understanding Imp's ability revealed to three people that they had all targeted Imp N1. One claimed a fruit vendor ability that was confirmed by Imp, one claimed bulletproof bodyguard who knows when they get hit, and one vagueposted an investigative claim.

So it's Oliverz or Vermillion who's a wolf, and it all comes down to whether your trust the claim of bulletproof aware bodyguard.

If Oliverz is a wolf AP is never paired with him off that as well I'm pretty sure. You don't fruit vend the NK target.

Adding to this, Vermilion is a green town inspect to me, and he's 'among the counted' so there's extra mech going on.  It's possible I could be fooled, but I got extra info I am not discussing.  He got my 1-shot, I got extra info too, and I'm quite sure I inspected him, not anyone else.  It's 100% certain I inspected 1 of the 'counted' for sure, and it's a reasonable match to his claims/not a match to the other 'counted'/cannot be someone 'uncounted' and if it matches one of the 'counted not-him' they need to talk a lot more/I will find out as I continue to investigate among the 'counted', whenever that is.

4mask, I'm scared AP's joke could be part of something like being doused.  What do you think about my concern there, should I be aware that could be going on, why or why not?

Also, why does one of them have to be a wolf, what's your understanding of the mech there?

As I mentioned above I've seen a very similar role before and it's not impossible but it's one of those things where you just kinda have to shrug and decide if you think AP is independently wolfy because without a more thorough peek/a flip there's no way of knowing what AP's actual role is beyond the fruit vendor side.

If I understand the mech correctly everyone who targeted you N1 was notified of all the other people who targeted, and Vermillion claimed BP aware bodyguard who blocked a kill. So if Vermillion is telling the truth either someone tried to shoot Vermillion N1 (possible, but I think unlikely) or one of the other two tried to shoot you.

who also can read the night results of dead players

Uh, did you mean to claim that part? Nobody's died yet.

Reading comprehension bestie.

Reading comprehension.

I note we have other people making claims of a similar-ish ability, definitely we have 2 folks claiming they are dead-player-locked and 1 who gets info specifically about the dead.  Maybe he intentionally pointed it out now, though I have no idea.  But that's what I thought when I saw it.  Increases the odds that I did indeed investigate Vermilion and not a different 'counted', this continues to be consistent with the extra info I got.

Okay I could be completely misreading it, but I'm pretty sure in context it was a clear hypothetical of "I could be a wolf IF this specific event is the case."

or back them up once they've given it

Erm... that's exactly what I did? I claimed my track result once Juicebox claimed to back up what he was saying?

[TricMagic]

I ate every single one of the nightkills, and Imp is town. I have reason to suspect that Oliver and AP are as well, due to the effects of Imp’s role.

For Clarity, I can confirm what Vermilion has said here.

I am under the belief that all four of us involved with this (Me, Imp, Oliver, Vermilion) are good.

So I will be using this to create a POE.

What makes you think that Oliverz is town?

I can confirm that I saw you visit me, and that you told me a joke.

Since Juice claimed I confirm I tracked juicebox to AnimePigeon N2.

So AP's action claim seems to check out if nothing else.

AVSkies ate the nightkills. Anime confirms this. Juice says they saw Anime visit them, confirming.... Honestly, this whole confirmation chain is odd.

Your claim comes in to confirm Juice's Track action. Who saw Anime visit them.

Anime, as a question what was your ability again? Or was this the chat thing... In any case, you were the last to claim 4mask. And unless Juice lied for no reason, you slotted yourself into a place no-one can confirm to confirm an action that was effectively already confirmed. There isn't anyone who can tell you otherwise here. But that's not quite the problem on it's own. Mafia doesn't have any reason not to use a track does it? combined with the miller claim to counter Imp's, followed with trying to paint Imp as the villain here, and it jus seems like bad luck to get fingered by the cop.

This could be a villain Imp. But if it is it's a massive improvement for them as mafia. Or they're TP again, or close enough to that.

[Imp]

If I understand the mech correctly everyone who targeted you N1 was notified of all the other people who targeted, and Vermillion claimed BP aware bodyguard who blocked a kill. So if Vermillion is telling the truth either someone tried to shoot Vermillion N1 (possible, but I think unlikely) or one of the other two tried to shoot you.

Got it, that was my original expectation too and why I originally said the attempted killer was very likely to be one of AP or Oliverz.

Verm's since revealed he redirects kills from whomever he guards to himself, then handles them through some other mech to not die.  That's great but complicates things because that means I never got successfully targeted by that NK.

If that's the person's only action, then that person actually never landed an action on me, so would not be 'among the counted' - if they happened to aim something like a cleaner action + NK, I'd have been hit by the cleaner action but the NK would redirect to Verm.  So in that probably low probability circumstance, that person is 'among the counted'.

But if the killer(s) threw only NK at Vermilion/myself, then they're definitely not 'counted' by me yet.

I am curious why you're concerned about hammering today when D1 you were perfectly happy to hammer no elimination early. It was only 30 minutes early but it still cut off discussion.

Like 2 whole days and unanswered questions currently from a LOT of people plus many people who haven't said much/answered questions/reacted and I place the first vote on someone; versus I didn't personally hammer no elim and it's close to end of day and not much time for anyone else to say much, and my vote puts us E-1 from hammer on no vote, and these two situations look the same to you, seriously?

What reality are we in, 4mask?  Are you okay?  Hugs and comfort to you, deep breaths or a nap if you need them maybe.  I'm not sure what's going on but your logic seems pretty off.

I do not like hammers, and that's also the first no-elim I've participated in that I can remember.  I'm generally very against them, this is a weird game and I have a role that can do more than guess, which helped.  Also, it's a B12 BYOR-variant.  Some of these people are probably pro-town key and locks for each other, this is a good thing if they can find each other and willing to see what happens.  But that's no-elim related.  'almost end of day' and no-elim was fine to me to help a hammer.  I have other answers to work on with my current role.

Now, if you're scared I have a nice cult going, happily that's not the case and there's a load of inspects of various sorts.  I just inspected Verm N2, if he's currently converted it happened after my N2 inspect.  I'm currently town, so life's good in my eyes.  People who can when and if they think it's needed, inspect anywhere.

But I'm generally discouraging of hammers before close to end of day, and concerned they might happen.

I don't think you specifically need me dead, I think that if you're a wolf and role peeked me this is probably exactly how you'd play it. You know how my role works and know you have plausible deniability for my flip.

What pattern does it match, exactly? My wolf pattern? My wolf pattern is high activity, same as town, so me not posting for two days would generally be assumed to be real-life related (as it was) rather than alignment related.

Like this explanation makes no sense to me. "your first post today looked different from yesterday" Yeah it was a one-line confirmation that I'd received a gift I'm not sure what you'd expect it to look like?

You ask why I didn't think you were a cop slowrolling it and it could well be the case, but you didn't play it like one. Your posts are massive so I admit I mostly skimmed them when I was catching up but you didn't apply pressure or even vote me on grounds unrelated to your claim to hide the fact that you'd peeked me from my potential scumbuddies, you just vagueposted about my inactivity and claimed a peek.

I see.  Well, you're really guessing about the how I'd play as a wolf bit.  Not sure why any wolf would play as I have this game, but if you wanna discuss the specifics of why that makes sense to you, I'd listen closely and think carefully about what I can understand about your perspective.

I've never been a cop that wasn't already 100% confirmed no chance to hide (FBYOR, my freaking bodyguard threw me into a different supercop's town form, allowing/causing that player to die and murdering my precious role, but hey, I was now a mostly confirmed town supercop with a didn't ever die bodyguard keeping me up as I inspected folks over and over).

At this point I'm hoping Imp is scum so I can enjoy watching them squirm as we make them dance the supercop dance and also not break Hector's post restriction. Continuously having to help the town, until eventually...there's no one left to inspect. Their batteries run out, and the dancing toy stops moving.

Farewell that game, we were both town there, me and my bodyguard who murdered all I loved, horri-neutered me, and made me what town needed me to be instead of what I wanted to be.  Oh well, that happens.

This is how I'm playing, here, hi.  I still don't get how you see me putting myself in this web of claims is something I think I could succeed at, as an evil.  Apparently this makes sense to you, I'm listening if you choose to discuss, because it tells me stuff about your mindset and that can help me understand you better.  If you are pro-town I want you alive, same as everyone else.

Okay I could be completely misreading it, but I'm pretty sure in context it was a clear hypothetical of "I could be a wolf IF this specific event is the case."

This one's about Vermilion's additional claim of the dead player stuff.

My question for 4maskwolf - who do you see saying "I could be a wolf", are they saying it about themself, about YOU, or what?  I want to understand with names who you think is saying what about this, please, I'm totally confused.

Erm... that's exactly what I did? I claimed my track result once Juicebox claimed to back up what he was saying?

Yeah, we're stuck with the fact that D3 is like from Thursday late to Tuesday kinda late, almost 5 whole days, so 1 post between Thursday late and Sunday sometime is both a VERY long time and hardly more than half the game day.

If you know you have a 5-rl-day-long D3, you reasonably might think "I'll handle this in 3 rl days, it'll be fine and I'm busy" vs someone else thinking, "Okay, it's been real life days, person didn't seem to react until external stimulus of being voted prompted it and that's probably the trigger".

I can see both, though I wanted to give you LOADS of time to react.

you mention you only skimmed my posts, you may have missed some stuff related to you.

First I mention I nearly ignored discussing you, waiting for you to post.  And waiting.  And waiting.  But I talked about Vermilion, who also got an ability from me.

I do believe Vermilion.

...

Vermillion ... continue to protect any specific mech of yours if you see fit, including lie.  There's other ways to resolve stuff if that could put you at risk.

...

To be clear, I strongly trust Vermilion to have town intention.  ... (but I'm comfortable that Vermilion's town)

...

Vermilion, if you have mech that lets you repeatedly get alignment info on someone, I wonder why you haven't reported N2 results, but I am sure you're town so I'm not worried about that.

...

But I'm just saying they're not conf-town to me, and without mech I don't want them treated as conf town - but I'm fine with Vermilion being considered town.

... Verm's good

There's plenty of hints you COULD have caught that I may have alignment inspected Vermilion, and maybe you'd think maybe I inspected you too (or you're paying no attention to the thread at that point; I can't know, I can only play).

I tried to make some very direct questions to you, after waiting almost a day:

4maskwolf went nearly silent as of D3, confirmed "I got something N1" but has not spoken at all otherwise.  Unlike Max, who apparently got something really nice and not from me, and Vermillion, who was a target for me to get something N2, both those folks seemed to think what they got was positive; 4maskwolf was really neutral or even avoidant.  Townie caution?  So much silence.

Which is fine.  4mask, I now want you to say what 1-shot ability you got, please.  As well as, like, comment on the game.  Or you can just go oh snap, people must know I'm evil, which, well, evil might be doing right now and good shouldn't be.  Wanna go for a ride or just die?

And kept waiting.  Welcome back to the game, what you and others post is all I have to go on, that and mech.

[juicebox]

Alright what do we have here? Imp has some pretty convincing evidence against 4mask, and Fallacy is tunneling harder than a pair of badgermoles.

Oliverz: You are the only one who hasn't claimed any night result. Can you please share what you did N1/N2, if anything

4mask: I'm honestly not really buying your defenses here, of course an outed wolf is going to claim miller, also your tracker claim isn't very strong at all. Why should I believe you, who's only come with weak claims and defenses, over Imp, who's actions have pretty much been verified, and who has been acting much townies than you have?

[4maskwolf]

Alright what do we have here? Imp has some pretty convincing evidence against 4mask, and Fallacy is tunneling harder than a pair of badgermoles.

Oliverz: You are the only one who hasn't claimed any night result. Can you please share what you did N1/N2, if anything

4mask: I'm honestly not really buying your defenses here, of course an outed wolf is going to claim miller, also your tracker claim isn't very strong at all. Why should I believe you, who's only come with weak claims and defenses, over Imp, who's actions have pretty much been verified, and who has been acting much townies than you have?

That's a pointless question, you either believe my claim or you don't.

Imp confirmed that track is in their pool so there's really no reason not to believe me there lol.

[TricMagic]

Honestly the track is real. Does it matter though? Not really, it didn't add any information to town. Whether you used it or not doesn't really matter cause no one can tell if you did. You confirmed something that was already effectively confirmed, with no counter-claims against it.

[juicebox]

Fallacy's focus on Max to the exception of all else is bordering on desperation at this point. Quoting a post that was deleted during game rules and saying "Juice may have been voting with Max here, but I guess we'll never know" is legit insane, and it's starting to fell like he's trying to keep our attention on him and Max and away from other things

[Imp]

Alright what do we have here? Imp has some pretty convincing evidence against 4mask, and Fallacy is tunneling harder than a pair of badgermoles.

Oliverz: You are the only one who hasn't claimed any night result. Can you please share what you did N1/N2, if anything

4mask: I'm honestly not really buying your defenses here, of course an outed wolf is going to claim miller, also your tracker claim isn't very strong at all. Why should I believe you, who's only come with weak claims and defenses, over Imp, who's actions have pretty much been verified, and who has been acting much townies than you have?

That's a pointless question, you either believe my claim or you don't.

Imp confirmed that track is in their pool so there's really no reason not to believe me there lol.

I'm only loling because I like to match attitudes.  Lol.

But getting a track from me, doesn't confirm you used it.  Reporting you tracked someone who has already reported what they did, does not confirm you actually USED the track.

4maskwolf is claiming an abilityset essentially functionally 'sealed', nobody's used that word yet to describe themselves but sure sounds like this from the OP:

Sealed: This action can’t be used / This auto has no effect.

And the example we get in the OP:

(Auto, Innate) Beaver King: You always have access to the Lodgechat.
(Auto) Beaver Court: If a member of Lodgechat other than yourself would be killed, they survive, but if this ability successfully protects someone, the lodge is destroyed in the scuffle; the current Lodgechat is closed and a new, empty Lodgechat is created. In addition, Bring Log is Sealed until the end of the next Day. (Players with access to the old Lodgechat will retain it, but it won't be considered an active groupchat.)
(Day) Bring Log [t]: Invite your target to the Lodgechat.

So, we have 2 players claiming they are unable to take action at all until after there's dead players; FoU actually has said 2 are needed to unlock the cop ability FoU claimed (I suppose there could be other non-cop actions FoU can maybe do with just one death, that wasn't discussed)

Using the track or not barely matters, because if the concern's mafiakill, at very least the generic mafiakill's free - the cost of the 1-shots I give can vary based on various specifics, but for sure a mafia could free generic action + use a 1-shot from me the same night.

No confirmable action + no action at all, no way to work towards wincon -- that's probably fairly-to-extremely stressful, I buy that as an issue affecting play for those guys if it's true.  It's a great cover for mafia, early game only?  But it's also needless if not true.  We also have TricMagic who has shown evidence of being able to read someone's non-innate ability, and the one read so far is described as not working until there's a death.

It's not like a person has to be unable to action to do the mafiakill, at least the generic's free.  So, that's just more info and not necessarily false.

I think that if you're a wolf and role peeked me this is probably exactly how you'd play it. You know how my role works and know you have plausible deniability for my flip.

To clarify, all the info I have on you is alignment; mafia and red is all I know about you, and I'm only super sure it's you that I inspected because you got the 1-shot.

I do get more info on those who are 'counted' when I inspect them, but it's not a full role read then either, I won't go into what it is or isn't besides that.

[TricMagic]

...... Huh?

Now, if you're scared I have a nice cult going, happily that's not the case and there's a load of inspects of various sorts.  I just inspected Verm N2, if he's currently converted it happened after my N2 inspect.  I'm currently town, so life's good in my eyes.  People who can when and if they think it's needed, inspect anywhere.

I start the game as a miller and what alignment I peek as changes based on who I target with my day action or any night actions I gain with it. My day action only works on dead players so I have not gotten a chance to use it, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't work with outside gifted actions so unfortunately I can't be inspected right now to determine juicebox's alignment.

You were inspected night 1, so by that point you had never targeted anyone with an action. So your alignment should be the one you started with? Well.. You did say you started as a miller. But that doesn't make any sense either caus you never claimed that day 1. If anything your alignment should change in response to trauma your targets, not start red in the first place.

Moreover, what would happen if you targeted two people at the same time? That sounds a bit too much for a GM to deal with yeah?
... Nevermind, but it only working on your actions, and you targeting the dead. Isn't that something designed to check if people got framed?

Did they now Juice?
... You know, if we somehow managed to hit both of the scumteam without losing a single person I'd be surprised. Meanwhile the two death-powered players end up being the scumteam and neer getting any power to use. Fal only works at night, 4mask only works at day. Meanwhile Max just making a complete mess of their mojo.

[Maximum Spin]

Did they now Juice?
... You know, if we somehow managed to hit both of the scumteam without losing a single person I'd be surprised. Meanwhile the two death-powered players end up being the scumteam and neer getting any power to use. Fal only works at night, 4mask only works at day. Meanwhile Max just making a complete mess of their mojo.

I pretty much fully expect this to be the case, except that I think with 12 players we're probably looking at a three-man team. Obviously I currently think the third is Mater (come on, scumreading your partner d1 for a completely bullshit reason you refuse to explain and nobody will ever take seriously is classic low-risk distancing), but I'm open to possibilities. Could be 2+third parties, too.

[4maskwolf]

Oh Imp also responded and while most of it is just... weird (not in an alignment way I'm just genuinely not sure what's going on there) I did want to respond to this.

My question for 4maskwolf - who do you see saying "I could be a wolf", are they saying it about themself, about YOU, or what?  I want to understand with names who you think is saying what about this, please, I'm totally confused.

Unironically what is going on this game.

And my last one too for that matter.

It feels like people just... aren't reading things.

If I understand the mech correctly exactly one of Vermillion or Oliverz is a wolf.

According to my understanding Imp's ability revealed to three people that they had all targeted Imp N1. One claimed a fruit vendor ability that was confirmed by Imp, one claimed bulletproof bodyguard who knows when they get hit, and one vagueposted an investigative claim.

So it's Oliverz or Vermillion who's a wolf, and it all comes down to whether your trust the claim of bulletproof aware bodyguard.

If Oliverz is a wolf AP is never paired with him off that as well I'm pretty sure. You don't fruit vend the NK target.

Mask, Imp investigated me as town. Unless I am a bullet-proof kill-aware bodyguard, who also can read the night results of dead players, who is also a godfather, I'm fairly confirmed by now.

This is the post we're talking about here.

Like am I the idiot? Because when I read this post I see "4mask, in order for me to be a wolf, I would have to be this role [inserts ludicrous-sounding role here]". And people are treating that as a legitimate claim from Vermillion.

Unless Vermillion has actually claimed to see the results of dead villages I'm genuinely not sure why anyone is treating that as a real claim rather than an intentionally-ludicrous hypothetical.

Fallacy's focus on Max to the exception of all else is bordering on desperation at this point. Quoting a post that was deleted during game rules and saying "Juice may have been voting with Max here, but I guess we'll never know" is legit insane, and it's starting to fell like he's trying to keep our attention on him and Max and away from other things

For what little it's worth I agree with this, Fallacy's myopic obsession has been increasingly baffling.


In response to Imp's other big post that got put out while I was writing this, my ability is not mechanically Sealed it just only targets dead players. Which obviously don't exist yet.

It also doesn't work on mafiakill or innate actions, or if I can't name the specific action (ex. if someone has a role which obfuscates their flip). I also lose all non-innate autos if I pick up an auto so I can't just do some silly assembling voltron shenanigans, and can only use one kill action per cycle.

EP has clearly seen how this has gone in the past and made some balance adjustments to keep my role fair lol.

[4maskwolf]

Moreover, what would happen if you targeted two people at the same time? That sounds a bit too much for a GM to deal with yeah?

THat's actually a good question, I didn't think of that. It's probably not going to come up but I can ask.

[Maximum Spin]

If I understand the mech correctly exactly one of Vermillion or Oliverz is a wolf.

According to my understanding Imp's ability revealed to three people that they had all targeted Imp N1. One claimed a fruit vendor ability that was confirmed by Imp, one claimed bulletproof bodyguard who knows when they get hit, and one vagueposted an investigative claim.

So it's Oliverz or Vermillion who's a wolf, and it all comes down to whether your trust the claim of bulletproof aware bodyguard.

If Oliverz is a wolf AP is never paired with him off that as well I'm pretty sure. You don't fruit vend the NK target.

Mask, Imp investigated me as town. Unless I am a bullet-proof kill-aware bodyguard, who also can read the night results of dead players, who is also a godfather, I'm fairly confirmed by now.

This is the post we're talking about here.

Like am I the idiot? Because when I read this post I see "4mask, in order for me to be a wolf, I would have to be this role [inserts ludicrous-sounding role here]". And people are treating that as a legitimate claim from Vermillion.

Unless Vermillion has actually claimed to see the results of dead villages I'm genuinely not sure why anyone is treating that as a real claim rather than an intentionally-ludicrous hypothetical.

No, I think you're right about this. It just didn't seem important to say so until now.

[VermilionSkies]

Oh, no, I can see the results of dead players, that's a real claim.

[Imp]

Unironically what is going on this game.

And my last one too for that matter.

It feels like people just... aren't reading things.

If I understand the mech correctly exactly one of Vermillion or Oliverz is a wolf.

According to my understanding Imp's ability revealed to three people that they had all targeted Imp N1. One claimed a fruit vendor ability that was confirmed by Imp, one claimed bulletproof bodyguard who knows when they get hit, and one vagueposted an investigative claim.

So it's Oliverz or Vermillion who's a wolf, and it all comes down to whether your trust the claim of bulletproof aware bodyguard.

If Oliverz is a wolf AP is never paired with him off that as well I'm pretty sure. You don't fruit vend the NK target.

Mask, Imp investigated me as town. Unless I am a bullet-proof kill-aware bodyguard, who also can read the night results of dead players, who is also a godfather, I'm fairly confirmed by now.

This is the post we're talking about here.

Like am I the idiot? Because when I read this post I see "4mask, in order for me to be a wolf, I would have to be this role [inserts ludicrous-sounding role here]". And people are treating that as a legitimate claim from Vermillion.

Unless Vermillion has actually claimed to see the results of dead villages I'm genuinely not sure why anyone is treating that as a real claim rather than an intentionally-ludicrous hypothetical.

Aha!  I think he's fancily saying 'I am not a wolf... unless you want to follow this insane train of logic'.

So, I don't take what he said as a role name, but it is a fairly good summation of what's already been discussed/claimed by Vermilion.  The only new part that wasn't previously discussed in the thread (and again, I am part of no private chats at this time, no idea what is discussed elsewhere) is the dead results/dead players stuff.  I won't discuss what extra info I got about Vermilion, the first 'counted' inspection I've done.  Except to repeat that is not inconsistent with the info I got.

Umm, if he claimed, um... oh, let's say, that 'he could target player A and player B and force them to have a truce that prevented them from either voting or targeting each other for a cycle', I'd probably not discuss it (I just inspected this player as town; I fear conversions always unless I think them impossible but otherwise, Verm is town or also godfather -- so chances are this is a townie lie if he says it) but that claim would surprise me based on the extra info I was given about him besides his alignment, that just really isn't consistent with the extra info I got.

So, he could be lying about the dead player stuff, or factual.  Either way he inspected as town, I can see why he might say it because of the extra info I was given, and it's plausible to me.

But I'm just not going to flip out about Vermilion because of the game state and my inspect results.  I directly invited him to lie and we'd handle it if needed.  He's town, he can have any mystery he wants as far as I'm concerned; if he's NOT town he has to be godfather and we all heard this and we know what we're facing and already are deciding how we'd recognize when its time to deal with that should we have to.

Facts I know for sure that I've already said to the thread:  He targeted me N1 and N2.  He was the only player that targeted me N2.  We saw no kills either night.  He inspected as town to me N2 and I got extra info about him because he has previously landed an action on me.

But I do understand he's indeed saying that's the only way he could be wolf, you're right about that.  Well, you HAD just said you thought either Verm or Oliv had to be maf, so his answer makes sense as a response, even if it doesn't catch (as I didn't catch either) where you were coming from and help you get your feet under you.  Maybe it's a new claim, given all these other claims about people and dead players and abilities.  Seems fine to me either way, but I'm the one staring at my inspect results.

my ability is not mechanically Sealed it just only targets dead players. Which obviously don't exist yet.

It also doesn't work on mafiakill or innate actions, or if I can't name the specific action (ex. if someone has a role which obfuscates their flip). I also lose all non-innate autos if I pick up an auto so I can't just do some silly assembling voltron shenanigans, and can only use one kill action per cycle.

EP has clearly seen how this has gone in the past and made some balance adjustments to keep my role fair lol.

I'm not eager to elim 4maskwolf today.  I don't love the playstyle, but it's not impossible.  The claim seems possible, it would be nice to have.  However, I'm a special case, I have no fear of 4mask as an arsonist (he could be, just absolutely no evidence) and he definitely didn't douse ME yet.  I don't appear to currently need to fear NK much, and Vermilion seems safe from NK in general.  I can worry about Verm being redirected off me (or just deciding someone else is a better protection target) but I'm nearly the immortal my flavor claimed if things go really well, which is kinda nice (Again, I asked, that's JUST flavor, my own mech doesn't make me immortal at all, I do need protection or I would die).

But I don't need to be as concerned about NK as anyone else.  Arson though.  And if I thought we had a converter, I'd be FBYOR-level flippin' out again, but I see no evidence of a converter yet.

So I'm pretty open to giving 4mask more time.