Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[AnimePigeon]

Imp:
I am unable to tell what type of nightkill I block, I just get a message whenever one hits me.
Also, I didn't do it, but I did learn that you are town mechanically.


If I have to point fingers at either of Oliver or AP, I feel inclined to poke AP first. Oliver's role does not seem particularly scum-aligned from what I know of it.

Poke me all you like.

But I'm cleared N2 - and it's N2 you believe you got targeted as an NK.

You seems to be forgetting that you could've been targeted by a 3rd Party not involved in the Imp Triangle.

[Imp]

(Note: i am tired and writing this quickly)

If anyone has used used abilities that let them know what faction someone is, i would like to both who the target was, and which night it was used on, due to an ability i used on one of the nights.

My main issue is not lacking the time to post, it's not knowing what to post.

N2 I got Masquerade as my result, a bussing action. Wolfkey did just allude to it, so if you can give us your action results? And yes I did target you N2.

You are correct, masquerade is one of my abilities.

Hey, Wolfkey!

If you happen to be a partnered anti-town trying to pick out what you should reveal/claim/lie about to try and help confuse results that may or may not exist yet about your partner or even yourself, while leaving every possible other lie/claim/reveal open for the future...

Well, your behavior's a pretty close match to what I imagine that might look a lot like, so maybe keep it up!

If you are a town going 'oh bleep oh bleep oh bleep this could go good or bad and I'm so scared and alone', I sympathize and have some advice.

Most of us alive are probably town.  It's a very rare game that starts with more multiple not-town factions all competing for the win and a few townies without a clue thinking most everyone around them is town; if you actually are in that situation there's some chance the various competing evils don't wanna mess much with town yet, they wanna find the enemy evil before the enemy evil finds them, so if you are town in that situation it's VITAL to FIND OUT and try to persistently snipe the strongest anti-town while working to elim them all but in some kinda balance that preserves town and prevents any enemy dominance.

If you are town with likely useful info, including about messing up other townies, it's okay to tell us.

Some town roles are ridiculously destructive andrequire great targeting or much self control to be used in a townie fashion; here's the scariest of those roles I ever played beside:

Rapidly Evolving Meme By Knightwing (Town)
(Innate, 0 Growth, Auto) Memetic Mutation: The more you learn, the more you are, the more you grow. You gain benefits according to the amount of Growth you have.
-2 Growth: You learn to be flexible. Your abilities cannot be Disabled, and you learn how many players visit you each Night.
-4 Growth: You learn to be agile. You may take an additional action each Night. You learn when you’ve been redirected.
-7 Growth: You learn to be lethal. You gain Basilisk. Infovore and Memetic Consumption are updated such that ‘Something’ becomes ‘Knightwing’.
(Auto) Infovore: You are a new type of creature, with spindly limbs of words and concepts and a writhing core of information. When a player would learn information about you from an investigative action, they instead learn “Something perceives your perception.” and you learn the information instead. You also gain 1 Growth when this happens.
(Night) Memetic Consumption [target]: You can only grow by consuming other infoforms.  Any investigative results your target would gain this Night are replaced with “Something gnaws on your gnosis.” You learn those investigative results for yourself, and gain 1 Growth per action interfered with by this action.
(Reference, Night) Basilisk [target]: You fracture your target’s internal panopticon. You kill them. They learn “Knightwing devours your didact.”

You're pretty clearly not THAT (I think, based on your few comments) but I kinda recommend you just let folks know what you're doing that messes stuff up.

We have a shockingly high number of information-gathering roles this game, both through direct action and through, to paraphrase Vermilion, 'it's not an ability but something mech confirmed alignment about another player'.

"Someone might really mess with information gained, depending on various variables" is a possible reason why we have so many info-gathering roles (I was thinking we might have a lot of enemy factions hunting each other, they all need a way to find out somehow - but there's other possible reasons).

Rather than waiting for every single information gatherer to claim, you might want to just state whatever, like "I messed with any information gathering on AP last night.  If you tracked him, you saw a fake target, it's only certain he didn't visit that person.  If you watched someone, you saw nobody visited them, even if someone did.  If you inspected them, you got a random alignment that could or not be correct.  And mod help you if you copied their action, you actually have a self destruct button if you use it' - or whatever your truth actually is.

That looks way more townie, to me, than you saying something like "So, after you all tell me what you did to who, I'll discuss if that might be disrupted and how'.  I'd also, if it's really predictable to be disruptive, if you'd discuss why you picked your targeting and how you think it is more useful for town to have the confusion than not (this can happen; Knightwing's example he is town.  He gets the information, whatever it is, and can tell us instead of the person who did the inspecting - if he targets an anti-town inspector he's stealing info for town that town wouldn't get otherwise and can also help identify those who probably shouldn't be spying on someone maybe trusted or something (double checks are wise though, helps catch cults or verify cults or temporary disguise isn't a problem).  We can use this to help him grow and help ensure townies don't die, this can be discussed and understood.)

Night 1 - I told a Joke to Eskcanta (she should be able to vouch for this)

This happened to me N1 and I was told I laughed; this is consistent with AP having done it based on my mech though I wasn't told it was him.

I ate every single one of the nightkills, and Imp is town. I have reason to suspect that Oliver and AP are as well, due to the effects of Imp’s role.

For Clarity, I can confirm what Vermilion has said here.

I am under the belief that all four of us involved with this (Me, Imp, Oliver, Vermilion) are good.

So I will be using this to create a POE.

AP, are you confirming that there were no other NK that were somehow else blocked, maybe by other people entirely?  This is important, it tells us stuff like if there's more than 1 enemy team, if there's a SK or similar.  If you're working on reads or what makes sense to you, that's fine, I just wanna make sure I understand.

I still am holding 4MaskWolf as one of my Main Town Leans.

Wow, awesome!  Why?  And evaluate their play in detail please that made you have a main town lean on 4mask.  If instead it's mech be clear it's that and I'd also like to know when this mech happened.

But I'm cleared N2 - and it's N2 you believe you got targeted as an NK.

How's the clear work in your mind again?  We know that generic mafiakills are free and some non-generics are probably also free, so the fact that you have a traceable action N2 is not a clear to me, is it to you or do you mean something else?

I've got some interesting information. First is Fallacy got shot Night 1, or otherwise started with a 0-Shot Bulletproof. As the name is Corpulent Bulk, if the latter it refills as others end up dead, meaning the only way to kill them is via lynch. The second piece of info is something I will hold for now.

Thanks, Tric.

But, yes, since the information is public now, I'll go ahead and confirm that I have this ability, and that it started out at 0 shots.

I'm assuming you didn't actually get that information from an action used on me, though.

Why do you have that assumption, FoU, that an action wasn't used on you to learn your ability?
CM, you went from telling us "I was unable to perform actions on n1 and n2. Did anyone else experience something similar to this?" to telling us, CM "chose to steal abilities on both nights and both nights my abilities remained unchanged."  Why'd you pick that direction to explore first and/or did you believe you couldn't perform actions N1 and N2, instead of any of the other reasons why you might not succeed in your actions?  You seemed to change stories very fast when Juice claimed to watch you target someone, you didn't seem to suspect Juice of possibly lying or of being maybe redirected HIMSELF so he watched someone not you, even though his observation doesn't match your claim of targeting.
Oliverz, did you actually lose an ability to Mater?  You mention ultimatum and extortion, are you able and willing to tell us what penalty or problem you have or if you lost an ability?  I'd like to know what your penalty was or would have been if you didn't 'agree' to lose the ability.  If the ability was transferred (but Mater says you refused?) I'm interested in knowing what ability it was (since now 2+ players know what that ability is, 'why not tell everyone' if it WAS transferred and you no longer have it?  You may have a reason) and I also want to know, like super much, IF it appeared that Mater knew what ability he was going for.  You may not know that, or the wording may be clear that he knew what he was going for.  But it's very useful to know, since this happened N2 especially, if Mater seems to have known what ability he was targeting instead of maybe targeting a random ability you have/had.
Max, do you confirm this?  I presume you were targeted N1 with an 'ultimatum'?  Think it could be pro-town to tell us more about, or meaningless, or more pro-town not to discuss details?

[AnimePigeon]

(Note: i am tired and writing this quickly)

If anyone has used used abilities that let them know what faction someone is, i would like to both who the target was, and which night it was used on, due to an ability i used on one of the nights.

My main issue is not lacking the time to post, it's not knowing what to post.

N2 I got Masquerade as my result, a bussing action. Wolfkey did just allude to it, so if you can give us your action results? And yes I did target you N2.

You are correct, masquerade is one of my abilities.

Hey, Wolfkey!

If you happen to be a partnered anti-town trying to pick out what you should reveal/claim/lie about to try and help confuse results that may or may not exist yet about your partner or even yourself, while leaving every possible other lie/claim/reveal open for the future...

Well, your behavior's a pretty close match to what I imagine that might look a lot like, so maybe keep it up!

If you are a town going 'oh bleep oh bleep oh bleep this could go good or bad and I'm so scared and alone', I sympathize and have some advice.

Most of us alive are probably town.  It's a very rare game that starts with more multiple not-town factions all competing for the win and a few townies without a clue thinking most everyone around them is town; if you actually are in that situation there's some chance the various competing evils don't wanna mess much with town yet, they wanna find the enemy evil before the enemy evil finds them, so if you are town in that situation it's VITAL to FIND OUT and try to persistently snipe the strongest anti-town while working to elim them all but in some kinda balance that preserves town and prevents any enemy dominance.

If you are town with likely useful info, including about messing up other townies, it's okay to tell us.

Some town roles are ridiculously destructive andrequire great targeting or much self control to be used in a townie fashion; here's the scariest of those roles I ever played beside:

Rapidly Evolving Meme By Knightwing (Town)
(Innate, 0 Growth, Auto) Memetic Mutation: The more you learn, the more you are, the more you grow. You gain benefits according to the amount of Growth you have.
-2 Growth: You learn to be flexible. Your abilities cannot be Disabled, and you learn how many players visit you each Night.
-4 Growth: You learn to be agile. You may take an additional action each Night. You learn when you’ve been redirected.
-7 Growth: You learn to be lethal. You gain Basilisk. Infovore and Memetic Consumption are updated such that ‘Something’ becomes ‘Knightwing’.
(Auto) Infovore: You are a new type of creature, with spindly limbs of words and concepts and a writhing core of information. When a player would learn information about you from an investigative action, they instead learn “Something perceives your perception.” and you learn the information instead. You also gain 1 Growth when this happens.
(Night) Memetic Consumption [target]: You can only grow by consuming other infoforms.  Any investigative results your target would gain this Night are replaced with “Something gnaws on your gnosis.” You learn those investigative results for yourself, and gain 1 Growth per action interfered with by this action.
(Reference, Night) Basilisk [target]: You fracture your target’s internal panopticon. You kill them. They learn “Knightwing devours your didact.”

You're pretty clearly not THAT (I think, based on your few comments) but I kinda recommend you just let folks know what you're doing that messes stuff up.

We have a shockingly high number of information-gathering roles this game, both through direct action and through, to paraphrase Vermilion, 'it's not an ability but something mech confirmed alignment about another player'.

"Someone might really mess with information gained, depending on various variables" is a possible reason why we have so many info-gathering roles (I was thinking we might have a lot of enemy factions hunting each other, they all need a way to find out somehow - but there's other possible reasons).

Rather than waiting for every single information gatherer to claim, you might want to just state whatever, like "I messed with any information gathering on AP last night.  If you tracked him, you saw a fake target, it's only certain he didn't visit that person.  If you watched someone, you saw nobody visited them, even if someone did.  If you inspected them, you got a random alignment that could or not be correct.  And mod help you if you copied their action, you actually have a self destruct button if you use it' - or whatever your truth actually is.

That looks way more townie, to me, than you saying something like "So, after you all tell me what you did to who, I'll discuss if that might be disrupted and how'.  I'd also, if it's really predictable to be disruptive, if you'd discuss why you picked your targeting and how you think it is more useful for town to have the confusion than not (this can happen; Knightwing's example he is town.  He gets the information, whatever it is, and can tell us instead of the person who did the inspecting - if he targets an anti-town inspector he's stealing info for town that town wouldn't get otherwise and can also help identify those who probably shouldn't be spying on someone maybe trusted or something (double checks are wise though, helps catch cults or verify cults or temporary disguise isn't a problem).  We can use this to help him grow and help ensure townies don't die, this can be discussed and understood.)

Night 1 - I told a Joke to Eskcanta (she should be able to vouch for this)

This happened to me N1 and I was told I laughed; this is consistent with AP having done it based on my mech though I wasn't told it was him.

I ate every single one of the nightkills, and Imp is town. I have reason to suspect that Oliver and AP are as well, due to the effects of Imp’s role.

For Clarity, I can confirm what Vermilion has said here.

I am under the belief that all four of us involved with this (Me, Imp, Oliver, Vermilion) are good.

So I will be using this to create a POE.

AP, are you confirming that there were no other NK that were somehow else blocked, maybe by other people entirely?  This is important, it tells us stuff like if there's more than 1 enemy team, if there's a SK or similar.  If you're working on reads or what makes sense to you, that's fine, I just wanna make sure I understand.

I still am holding 4MaskWolf as one of my Main Town Leans.

Wow, awesome!  Why?  And evaluate their play in detail please that made you have a main town lean on 4mask.  If instead it's mech be clear it's that and I'd also like to know when this mech happened.

But I'm cleared N2 - and it's N2 you believe you got targeted as an NK.

How's the clear work in your mind again?  We know that generic mafiakills are free and some non-generics are probably also free, so the fact that you have a traceable action N2 is not a clear to me, is it to you or do you mean something else?

I've got some interesting information. First is Fallacy got shot Night 1, or otherwise started with a 0-Shot Bulletproof. As the name is Corpulent Bulk, if the latter it refills as others end up dead, meaning the only way to kill them is via lynch. The second piece of info is something I will hold for now.

Thanks, Tric.

But, yes, since the information is public now, I'll go ahead and confirm that I have this ability, and that it started out at 0 shots.

I'm assuming you didn't actually get that information from an action used on me, though.

Why do you have that assumption, FoU, that an action wasn't used on you to learn your ability?
CM, you went from telling us "I was unable to perform actions on n1 and n2. Did anyone else experience something similar to this?" to telling us, CM "chose to steal abilities on both nights and both nights my abilities remained unchanged."  Why'd you pick that direction to explore first and/or did you believe you couldn't perform actions N1 and N2, instead of any of the other reasons why you might not succeed in your actions?  You seemed to change stories very fast when Juice claimed to watch you target someone, you didn't seem to suspect Juice of possibly lying or of being maybe redirected HIMSELF so he watched someone not you, even though his observation doesn't match your claim of targeting.
Oliverz, did you actually lose an ability to Mater?  You mention ultimatum and extortion, are you able and willing to tell us what penalty or problem you have or if you lost an ability?  I'd like to know what your penalty was or would have been if you didn't 'agree' to lose the ability.  If the ability was transferred (but Mater says you refused?) I'm interested in knowing what ability it was (since now 2+ players know what that ability is, 'why not tell everyone' if it WAS transferred and you no longer have it?  You may have a reason) and I also want to know, like super much, IF it appeared that Mater knew what ability he was going for.  You may not know that, or the wording may be clear that he knew what he was going for.  But it's very useful to know, since this happened N2 especially, if Mater seems to have known what ability he was targeting instead of maybe targeting a random ability you have/had.
Max, do you confirm this?  I presume you were targeted N1 with an 'ultimatum'?  Think it could be pro-town to tell us more about, or meaningless, or more pro-town not to discuss details?

Regarding 4MaskWolf, it's purely a Tonal Read, nothing too deep or that I could prove with anything to make it a clear, it's more just there vibe/energy/tone suggests them have a lot of WIM (Want it more).

Whilst this could suggest they might actually be Evil Aligned, as High WIM can be more aligned with Evil Players, I'm taking it for its flat value at the moment and operating a Innocent until Proven Guilty Approach to 4MaskWolf.

Regarding me N2 - Juicebox seeems to have successfully tracked me and they haven't (to my knowledge from what I've seen in thread) told anyone who I targeted N2, they have just confirmed I didn't target Vermilion.

So if you or Vermilion were under the belief that I could have attempted a Kill on Vermilion or even you, wouldn't that have just been picked up by Juicebox?

Additionally, I have explicitly stated my actions, thus Juicebox now has the opportunity to correct me if I targeted someone else than I have mentioned or he can corroborate my targeting claim for N2.

Due to your Mechanic Imp, if anything, I need to ensure you remain alive.

[Magma Mater]

Regarding 4MaskWolf, it's purely a Tonal Read, nothing too deep or that I could prove with anything to make it a clear, it's more just there vibe/energy/tone suggests them have a lot of WIM (Want it more).

Are we reading the same thread?

I'll explain my role for you, Imp. Each night I can extort another player. They must either give me an ability, or they will lose all abilities the next time a player surrenders an ability to me. The person I target learns I targeted them.
I'm using this ability on Max to try to confirm the phrasing of his (presumably one-shot) ability.

[FallacyofUrist]

Why do you have that assumption, FoU, that an action wasn't used on you to learn your ability?

I have an Auto that would probably disrupt something like that. I may have to ask EP about it, though.

[FallacyofUrist]

I'll explain my role for you, Imp. Each night I can extort another player. They must either give me an ability, or they will lose all abilities the next time a player surrenders an ability to me. The person I target learns I targeted them.

So if everyone chooses not to give you any abilities, you will never gain any abilities?

Unless you have a backup plan that strikes me as a bit of a design flaw.

[juicebox]

I ate every single one of the nightkills, and Imp is town. I have reason to suspect that Oliver and AP are as well, due to the effects of Imp’s role.

For Clarity, I can confirm what Vermilion has said here.

I am under the belief that all four of us involved with this (Me, Imp, Oliver, Vermilion) are good.

So I will be using this to create a POE.

What makes you think that Oliverz is town?

I can confirm that I saw you visit me, and that you told me a joke.

[TricMagic]

Well, Elephant jut sent me an errata saying I got no results from my investigation.

[TricMagic]

... Need bed, my N1 investigation of Fal. Which fits with their confidence if they can't be investigated like that.

Fallacy, these are the types of things you tell people in advance you know?

[FallacyofUrist]

Well, Elephant jut sent me an errata saying I got no results from my investigation.

Elephant, behind the scenes, when I mentioned my Auto: shit shit shit shit shit shit

It's okay! Stuff like that happens. Get a spreadsheet if you don't already have one.

Fallacy, these are the types of things you tell people in advance you know?

If you try and push a case on me for not complying with miller / semi-miller meta while Maximum Spin is just sitting there, menacingly, not hunting a single person on either of these Days

I will laugh in your face.

[Magma Mater]

I'll explain my role for you, Imp. Each night I can extort another player. They must either give me an ability, or they will lose all abilities the next time a player surrenders an ability to me. The person I target learns I targeted them.

So if everyone chooses not to give you any abilities, you will never gain any abilities?

Unless you have a backup plan that strikes me as a bit of a design flaw.

You can speak with Elephant Parade about this post-game, lol. I have no other abilities so I have nothing else to do.
It's possible he expected people to know how to use it properly. It's quite powerful. Having two people who know the exact wording of an ability, who has it, etc. is pretty strong. For example, if I target juicebox tonight, he could choose to give me his ability so that I can confirm that he is a tracker. Or you could give me your bulletproof ability, since scum won't be trying to kill you anyway. Unfortunately, it does rely on some creative thinking from my target to understand that giving an ability to me is pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

[FallacyofUrist]

As I think you're Town and don't really trust Tric, I'll give you an ability if you visit me this Night.

Might not be a good ability, but it'll have some utility.

[Magma Mater]

As I think you're Town and don't really trust Tric, I'll give you an ability if you visit me this Night.

Might not be a good ability, but it'll have some utility.

Sweet, I'll take it. It does have to be non-innate, hope that won't be a problem. Thanks!

[FallacyofUrist]

Shouldn't be, unless Tric the Magic Dragon turns all my abilities into innates somehow. Which I doubt.

[Oliverz144]

Nobody hammer.  Hammerers should be killed/elimmed soon if they do so.  I have more to say and it's still to early in the day to say it; Tricmagic also has implied/stated he does too.


Want to remind everyone that conversion can exist, as can cults period.  I have no info about such a thing, but that should be remembered as a maybe in any game with no visible kills happening.  However, there is evidence/claims that a typical mafia exists, such as Vermilion's statement he has confirmation he stopped the "nightkill" twice, which drops the odds of conversion concern for me, because I do believe Vermilion.

I also want to mention it's possible that role names or even ability names might be usable by some roles/abilities, including evil, so I don't wanna encourage folks to share them widely without cause.  I get the concern about CM's role name, but urge us all to consider not telling them without cause; 'cause I think this is an enemy' is fine but oops indeed if wrong.


Vermillion, do you have any specific info about the kills you actually stopped?  Are they mafiakill exactly, an evil kill specifically, just a kill?  Nightkill can cover anything from vig to the mafiakill to any evil kill including serial killer and alternate evil group kills (like if we face 2+ mafia); it can also be slang for the mafiakill specifically.  I wonder because this could inform about the various and possible multiple anti-town we face.  However, continue to protect any specific mech of yours if you see fit, including lie.  There's other ways to resolve stuff if that could put you at risk.


So, here's what I observe.

4maskwolf went nearly silent as of D3, confirmed "I got something N1" but has not spoken at all otherwise.  Unlike Max, who apparently got something really nice and not from me, and Vermillion, who was a target for me to get something N2, both those folks seemed to think what they got was positive; 4maskwolf was really neutral or even avoidant.  Townie caution?  So much silence.

Which is fine.  4mask, I now want you to say what 1-shot ability you got, please.  As well as, like, comment on the game.  Or you can just go oh snap, people must know I'm evil, which, well, evil might be doing right now and good shouldn't be.  Wanna go for a ride or just die?

Juicebox looks fine to me so far.  I have no mech here currently but nothing I see from them looks wrong.

Animepigeon has not posted on the forum in many days.

Crystalizedmire is maybe fine.  This player is smooth when evil and useful when town, and playing in meta for both, extremely weak townlean here purely from read.  I have no mech here currently.

FallacyofUrist exists and is playing, my world and FoUs hasn't directly slammed into each other that I know.  I didn't give anything to FoU yet, FoU didn't say got a new 1-shot ability N1 or N2, FoU has not targeted me directly yet.  Playstyle, FoU is null to me right now, very interested in what FoU thinks is useful to do today, but aware that as town FoU can play a superman savior role in a way to get dead fast.  I'm not too concerned about FoU, in that if FoU has to die I wanna see if FoU can have more time.

PPE:  Wow we have a lot of inspects or claims of cop/inspection in this game.  I'm reminded that in games with multiple evils that need to hunt each other, evil can need some inspects too.  Not sure that FoU is evil by any means, but I'm thinking about how incredibly many forms of investigate we already appear to have claimed.

Max is playing bold and confident, I do think this Max probably isn't straight out mafia.  If evil, Max gotta deal with other baddies that he seems to think exist plus doesn't seem to want town weakened, I have no issue with Max this game so far and this could be a town Max.  I've seen a serial killer Max be super helpful for town while positioning himself to ruin us all, but I recommend one of our investigator-types, of which we appear to have a LOT, resolve that at some point.  I'm currently extremely unwilling to see Max flip 'just cause' - since we seem to have a lot of mech evidence likely available and more coming, I'm more focused on that this game.

Oliverz - I really want to know why/how he confirms me town, if it's mech or presumption based on other things that haven't been talked about yet.  If it's mech I wonder why Oliverz hasn't told us much about who else he mech-checked.  I don't know Oliverz alignment, not really eager for an elim here at all D3, but it could be needful later.  Pressure and normal play are fine, do not hammer this slot (or any other) until at bare minimum Tricmagic and myself say we've finished sharing information we haven't shared yet.

TricMagic, hehe.  Who's going down a rabbit hole now?  Not sure who recognizes who as a major threat in your eyes here?

A regular Gluttony over here huh. Fair enough. as a note who did you bodyguard? Probably Imp. Which is funny given they're now recognized as a major threat.

To be clear, I strongly trust Vermilion to have town intention.  If Vermilion has new concern about me, I missed it.  If anything I'm wondering if Vermilion has mech on my alignment or is just trusting it, if so I want Vermilion careful about trust in general (but I'm comfortable that Vermilion's town) - and not to presume the people he was town-presuming are town.  They could be, I don't know (I am, yes).

One thing to note is what I gave Max is likely to turn the game on it's head. If they're scum, town is probably dead anyway. So Max/Imp are town for me. Anything else and we wouldn't be talking right now.

Precious to know, thanks.  Umm, I can't end the game with my current abilities even if I used them for evil, but I am town and can help a lot in general I think.  I think you're mostly talking Max here, and very noted.

If Lurkers want to lurk, I've given them a time limit before I release the info I have. Something you never did. I'm giving town a chance to fess up before declaring them to be scum.

Me too.  I support this and really don't want any hammers early.  I have more to discuss and similar reasons to Tric's, though we're maybe talking about different people, gonna be fun to find out (there are multiple very quiet folks, so could be!)  Tric looks fine to me, I have no mech here currently but nothing I see from them looks wrong.

Vermilion reports he was informed he stopped 2 nightkills, also says he redirects kills from his target to himself.  He also calls me town; I'm not sure if that's a read or a mech result, or maybe a presumption about some other things going on.  For my part, I am highly confident Vermilion is town and certain Vermilion targeted me both N1 and N2 (it's totally possible Vermilion did other actions with other targets too, and/or multi-actioned me 1 or both nights.  I was only formed about fluff in connection to the actions ANYONE has taken on me, plus my own mech.)  Vermilion, if you have mech that lets you repeatedly get alignment info on someone, I wonder why you haven't reported N2 results, but I am sure you're town so I'm not worried about that.

Wolfkey has not posted on the forum in many days.

Mater

This seems right, but Vermilion and Imp seem to be saying that one of Oliverz and AnimePigeon are mafia.

Nah, I don't know.  But they are NOT confirmed pro-town to me, and I don't know if Vermilion is using mech or some guesses I don't agree with; if it's actually mech and not guesses about me knowing/choosing, that needs to be considered.  What they are, if anti-town, is pretty darn trapped, sorry fellows if you are evil, and you're fine if you can win with town.  This'll be figured out at some point, but it's even easier to figure out about those who have already targeted me.  It is possible they are both innocent, and both nightkills that Vermilion handled came from someone else - maybe even from someone else who was forced to target me (like that game I was town but a butler to the mafia, who would use me to kill, traceable to me not the maf player and completely without me knowing about it).  If we're in a situation like that, that's fine; we should be able to solve it.  That could potentially even be Vermilion being used, not to his knowledge, the game I was the maf killer while town, I was also the town doc and 100% able to prevent the kills if I targeted by choice who I was maf-forced to target on the same night.  B12 has seen stranger roles.

But I'm just saying they're not conf-town to me, and without mech I don't want them treated as conf town - but I'm fine with Vermilion being considered town.

Yeah and if you're town then you've grievously misplayed. Not just by refusing the offer, but by outing an obviously town ability. What kind of scum ability ASKS you whether you want to give an ability to them, and also tells you who's asking? I did target you because I figured you'd be the most likely person to do the crazy thing and take the gambit, but I'm not shocked that you didn't. This is why my ability is useless... nobody is going to give their abilities away even though it's the objectively correct play lmao

shudders  So, I was mod-killed in a not B-12 game in a situation almost exactly like you described only they wanted my ability to vote not my ability to use an ability and they were offering me abilities.  Anyway, you could be any alignment with that, especially on B-12.

If you give me an offer, I believe I will refuse it, I struggle to imagine an offer I would accept THIS GAME (worth considering some other maybe).  I'm kinda afraid to target Mater, I also saw a B12 game where a player got royally WRECKED by targeting the wrong person and it in some way involved devil deals too, and I am Imp.  This may not be similar but I don't wanna target Mater myself, thank you all so freaking much.  Not sure we elim him or someone else takes the risks I'm avoiding with targeting him, dunno, barely care at this point, my skin's crawling.

But no, I wasn't redirected, Mater, from targeting YOU (maybe someone else, we'll see).  I haven't dared target you yet, and your claims about not having abilities, your claims about inviting Tric to verify you don't, and now your devil deals, I don't want to touch you with anything except MAYBE my vote.  Not sure I'd vote you either, 'leper outcast unclean' comes to mind, but I'm probably just scared and silly.  Plus the weird stuff about CM trying to target you N1 and maybe being redirected to Oliverz instead, and maybe losing her ability's effect or who knows.... I don't know.  I want far away from you though.

Nobody is getting caught by role actions this game, so you're just going to waste the day sitting around doing nothing.

Why not?

Are you predicting or do you know we don't have a cop, or that if we do the cop can't cop right, or what?

You're saying that it's likely either AnimePigeon or Oliverz performed the kill n1, yes? Please confirm whether I have this correct:
You protected Imp night one and were told that you prevented the NK.
Imp's ability triggered and somehow informed you that AnimePigeon and Oliverz also targeted Imp (it would be nice to know if/why it seems that only Vermilion got this information, and not either of those two).
You protected Imp night two and were told that you prevented the NK.
Imp's ability triggered and told him that only Vermilion targeted him that night.

Good enough for what's been openly said in the thread so far.  There's complex stuff going on, I kinda am laughing about your idea that "Nobody is getting caught by role actions this game" when I'm not frazzling and wondering what you may know that I most definitely don't know (I'm not claiming cop at this time, or stranger than cop, or whatever; just that's one of the most obvious roles that could have abilities that may help catch people in the game, especially in combination with other types of inspections, tracks, apparently the NK can be detected when blocked...  There's a load of info, so something's up and this game is probably harder than it looks.

Although, they're playing poorly enough that I should be hard-cleared now LOL

I still gotta restrain 'kill Mater' reflexes when I read stuff like that though.  Why do you think you should be hard cleared, especially since "Nobody is getting caught by role actions this game"?

PPE:

then I guess we don't have a choice.

Something feels really wrong to me here.  I don't want to vote or target this dude.  I think this should maybe be elim but I'm not sure.  That's my subconscious talking, knowing that I don't know what could or couldn't exist in this game.  If he's not exactly our most urgent elim, we probably can do better than elim here today.

More info later.  I want to hear from more folks if possible, and also don't let me stop what folks are doing.  I for SURE don't have all the pieces yet.

i have mechanical confirmation that You are Town