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[AnimePigeon]

The upsides of playing on Bay12: I can spend six hours playing Oxygen Not Included and not be horrendously behind when I return.

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Interesting phrasing here. You seem to imply suspicion of Fallacy, but opt to kill juicebox without commenting on what his alignment could be. What are your thoughts on juicebox now?

Unrelated, one of the mafia have outed themselves already. Kind of sad honestly. If anyone actually has a daykill or something like that let me know so that I can direct it, thanks.

Bestie...

Reading comprehension.


Imp when you talk I hear your posts in a Skaven voice.


Crystallized Mire is my first town lean.

Small Plus + for MaskWolf, I quite like the Skaven Voice for Imp/Eskcanta. Fits them perfectly.

[AnimePigeon]

Kind of an issue Magma when I don't know who you're talking about. Also why in the world would they stop if you haven't even placed a vote on them? Reads like you're just throwing shade and hoping town tears apart their own, while you can lay back and not say anything that incriminates you.

We don't even have everyone here yet given it's Sunday. I'm keeping a close eye on you Anime.exe.

Totally Understand your reservations regarding me, please do remember I'm a terrible Social Deduction Player.

[AnimePigeon]

I'm not certain how Magma is making town-reads, either. Imp and FoU I can understand having an idea of, as they have a fairly wide breadth of posts to look through, but I have made one singular post and Max has typed a grand total of 11 words so far this game.

I'm curious if this is an actual take, or if this is trying to bait out something?

While we try to figure that out, what's your take on the game past what you've mentioned?

Imp the fruit You mentioned is a so called Fruit vendor role (Encyclopedia Link: wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fruit_Vendor)
A fruit vendor is a role that can target a player each night and gift them a fruit (or similiar, ergo an more or less useless item that fits the flavour of the game) anonymously .
With Mafia kills usually being not multi-task able, this leads to the fruit vendor showing themself as town to the people it gifts the items to as soon as those discussion/revelation happens in the public thread or certain private group chats

It's also important to know this:  Bay12 mafia games often tend towards high complexity, we already should not expect that any individual mafia (or town or third party) player definitely has only 1 action, or that mafiakill definitely is not free or that the mafiakill definitely cannot be done with another action that may even affect a different target.  If that kind of power is in the hands of evil, some sort of balancing power will be in the hands of good (or the game's bastard, I didn't see that in our OP though).

Suspicious post. It's incredibly standard (like 99+% of games) to make mafiakills free, the OP even states that mafiakills are free this game. This post reads like mafia trying to convince town that he doesn't know anything about the mafia abilities, or trying too hard not to scumslip.

But the literal fruit vendor's role is to act as a named townie? So it would be easy to assume that the role purpose is same here so its not really a scum slip but someone forgetting the rules. Also, where did you get the idea that the default is free mafiakills? Usually they arent free.

Kind of an issue Magma when I don't know who you're talking about. Also why in the world would they stop if you haven't even placed a vote on them? Reads like you're just throwing shade and hoping town tears apart their own, while you can lay back and not say anything that incriminates you.

We don't even have everyone here yet given it's Sunday. I'm keeping a close eye on you Anime.exe.

I'm kind of baffled that anyone even cares about my hidden read. I'll share it later. Who do you think it is?

Why wouldnt we care who dies and who lives?
Im not even the first person to point these posts out, nor are these the only posts that struck me as suspicious. Why have you not replied to 4mask's, Imp's, and Tricmagic's post?
AP and Vermillion: What are your current reads?

To reply to CM & Imp, currently my main reads are the below;

Positive - MaskWolf - I like there tone and there comment about Imp having a Skaven Voice.

Negative - Magma Mater - Very Closed Off, not very interested in answering questions and actually wants Imp to target them with little reasoning.

[AnimePigeon]

Hm. Looking through the game so far:

Fallacy seems a little strange, but like they're being strange with a purpose behind it. I don't understand what they're doing, but they're doing something. Unsure.
You, Imp, seem fairly reliable to me? You've actively questioned most posts without a clear purpose, and don't seem to be pushing for a lynch without information. Town.
Max has only posted one joke and one vague reply to a vaguer statement. Feels scummy to me, but I have zero evidence and even less room to judge for not posting much.
Interrupted mid-post - Magma, I haven't the faintest idea of what your plan is. You state that you have a lot of solid reads with no visible evidence to back any of them up. Unsure.
Also, I leave my computer and it's tabs open while doing other things. I've been doing laundry between posts.
4mask feels like they're trying to hit a post quota to avoid getting questioned for inactivity. They do have solid posts between the one-line quota ones, though. Town?
Oliver has also only posted once, which I'm unsure about.
AP has said nothing of note game-wise.
Tric feels like FoU to me, but also feels more like town to me. Maybe it's the higher activity, or it's the slightly less obtuse posts?
I might be missing people, but I feel like I should post this before I get stabbed.

Cool, thank you.  Hope you don't get stabbed today, I for sure won't be doing that stabbing (I don't have a today stab at this time).

I like your reasoning.

Some of us are many-times repeat played-together players and deep which is largely why, for example, you see me barely brush against MS.  I've challenged him as intensely as I can previously in several games; I'm currently content that if he's anti-town I'm most likely going to suspect that over time, and if he is pro-town he's gonna be awesome over time.  I do learn stuff from him based on what he volunteers and reacts to, but I don't learn that much about going head to head with him unless I have reason to (sometimes I do).  The Max we see here, to my mind could be absolutely any alignment and anything from super intricately powerful to extremely weak, the only thing to be sure of is 'this behavior suits Max's mood and goals at this time'.  I used to intensely strive against him, and he'll probably match it if I do, but I still don't figure out if he's evil or not.  I'm also convinced of his usefulness being detectable within a day or two if he's pro-town, if there's not enough sign of that as time passes then I'm probably moving for his elim, or dead; perhaps others still alive do whatever they see best.

In my opinion, FoU is probably showing and exploring her character, and could be any alignment but tended before to be often scum and easily caught, rarely town and often ML.  In terms of omg, if this is evil, kill them noooooow, that's usually not Fallacy unless the role's that powerful.  Tricmagic is kinda also roleplay, but roleplays a dragon gonna maybe eat us all regardless of alignment.  Also to my mind a likely more dangerous player, if anti-town.  Usually been town in the games I've been in.

I haven't played with 4mask in a decade, so no opinion there but I like the feel so far this game.

My second game with Oliver, the first was chaotic and difficult, a very confusing game and Oliver was very fast to leap at ideas and make 'without much consideration' decisions about who and what meant evil.  In general that kind of thinking hurts town in B12 games, and the traps that can trick that kind of thinking can be extensive and deep; looking forward to seeing how this game goes with Oliver!

AP I have no opinion on, but think I can form an opinion over time.  'If he stays quiet end him' is my current advice, he usually has stances as good but this is fine for now, he can be busy/distracted/whatever.  Be gentle with him if he thinks I'm evil - even and especially if he's the only one.  He's seen me be evil more than anyone else here, he's seen me be good WAY less than anyone else who has played with me before.  He's not accurate at identifying me as evil yet, but he's only played beside me when I was town once ever, and we've played like 5 games already.

Juicebox I have little experience with, think is probably a skilled player though, and typical of B12 players, so clever and deep thinking, subtle and surprising in either role.

CrystalizedMire has recently become very convincing as evil but she's still useful as town, and she's likely to play convincingly townlike regardless of her role; her observations are usually useful and present even if she's evil.

Wolfkey is completely new to me and hasn't apparently noticed our game started/decided to speak, Wolf's posting in other threads sometimes today.

My read on you, Vermilion, is 'good enough for first contact this early in this game'.  So, I want to extend to you an invitation, which others may also take as their own, which is fine.

I invite you to target me tonight (presuming I make it to N1) with anything non-lethal you can do.  Sure, that's an open invitation to anyone, but it is more likely to be informative and helpful for town than harm town for people who don't have something else they decide to do with an action they could target me tonight.  Umm, I'm more useful alive than dead, but killing me won't stop or change the outcome of at least Vermilion targeting me tonight, should that player choose to.  Verm, you're also free to just not, you don't have to tell me you won't (like if your abilities all kill your target and you don't want me dead, just don't target me, you don't have to say that you're not gonna).

If I'm alive tomorrow I can participate in discussion (obviously) that this will likely provoke to follow up on, even if I'm dead there'll probably be clearly something to discuss for at least some of those still alive (and targeting me will NOT kill anyone N2).  Verm, I would specifically like you to be one of those people/that person if you choose to and are able.

10 reads... oh, Meter.  Meter, I don't get you.  A concerned Imp is a Imp that generally wants the concern dead.  I want to be careful about that in high power games because I presume this is a high power game and your abilities probably die with you, this is not a personality or popularity contest to me and I already saw a lot of B12 folks are challenging to understand on first contact.  But the canine part of me wants to defend territory against you, you're 'other outcast unknown'.  Not necessarily evil, and I'm not getting my sometimes-feel-it 'this is the most dangerous evil in the game' sense about you - more you're inexplicable but not necessarily harmful.

Your claims alarm me and I'm still super undecided on if I target you tonight.

I would argue that I've been more accurate regarding your alignment than most people you have played with recently (pretty much since the first game we played together) 

[FallacyofUrist]

I forgive you for your newness, Pigeon. Everyone starts somewhere.

However, I'd like to make the distinction between a positive and negative read and a pro-town vs. anti-town read.

I do agree that Magma Mater has been abrasive. However, does that make them more likely to be scum? I don't believe so. There are plenty of town players that have been tiresome to interact with. For all that refusing to share a read is unproductive, it does look to me like he's doing it to try and encourage town to analyze things more thoroughly. Which I disagree with heavily, but it does seem like genuine town play.

Negative read, but town player.

Unvote.

What do you say to that?

(Posting From Phone)

Ninja'd: Please don't completely quote massive posts. Quoting them in sections makes it much easier to see what you're responding to.

[Oliverz144]

HeyMagma , i really appreciate the challenge and presumably the honor for being invited to do it. I will try my best!
Also Thank You for the Vermillion explanation - i like the depth in your reads!

Imp I plan on finding scum by
a) reading all the posts ( a no brainer)
if something pings me or stands out i will pressure that, otherwise i will try to analyse intentions, wagonomics, interactions, posts, all the usuak stuff, i am no magician nor soul reader :/
meta is not a criteria for my reads, as i dont really have one, due to meta being built over a multitude of games in short time frames =)
Yeah i will post more=)
also the main posting phase is at around the sod/eod time here, so i don't usually have many things to say during my European day :/ I will try my best tho!!

Edit:
Imp has already solved it in a long post wall O.O i really like the way work and thought there, i would have done it the same !!

Also im posting from my phone aswell

[TricMagic]

Right, somehow missed you never got cleared either. I just don't get this complete refusal...
Unrelated, but I want to stab you Magma.

[Imp]

Unrelated, one of the mafia have outed themselves already. Kind of sad honestly. If anyone actually has a daykill or something like that let me know so that I can direct it, thanks.

In ascending order of posts from this. Max, Tric, Fal, Crystal, 4mask, Juice, Imp. And Magma obviously, but they're excluded as it's them making this claim. 7/12 people.

Unrelated, I'll say for now that FallacyofUrist, Imp, Maximum Spin, VermilionSkies are town. If you're town and not on this list it'd be nice if you could post more. Specifically @Oliverz144.

Very relatedly, this cuts it down to 3 people. Me, Crystal, and Fallacy.

Right, somehow missed you never got cleared either. I just don't get this complete refusal...
Unrelated, but I want to stab you Magma.

Tric, purely for accuracy and because I like lower levels of aggravation where that may occur, pointing out I think you missed this statement:

Crystalizedmire is mafia, Max Spin is town, TricMagic is town, Fallacy is town, I'm town. Feel free to steal these reads if you'd like, they're pretty great.

I come up with different cleared/not cleared folks list per Mater than you do, I presume it doesn't change your stance much to notice Mater's called you town/has this additional list, but in case it does, please let us know what you want to update or whatever.

@Imp target me tonight please.

Care to elaborate on why Imp should target you?

Trying to signal something to them?

AP, I encourage you to dig into this but I wonder if you missed these "I think are related" posts; I think the story they tell together means that Magma claims to have NO ROLE (did he ask to be a nothing?) and to have NO ABILITIES and claims he wants my target of a possible 1-shot 'give fruit' ability because then he'd go from 0 abilities to 1.  Why I think this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I didn't get a role pm

Of the stuff I can do, I can potentially give someone, a Person A, the ability to give someone else, a Person B, 1 fruit.  As far as I've been told, the fruit doesn't do anything, and of course I asked.

This seems cool/odd/weird so maybe it's a herring/distraction/whoops, or maybe it unlocks someone else, maybe someone else could power up from getting items or giving items or from otherwise useless fruit directly.

If anyone wants to talk about that, well, we're all listening.

@Imp target me tonight please.

I will consider targeting you, absolutely!  I do not at this time commit to doing so.  I'm also interested in what others say, and what your reasons for wanting to be targeted are.

Either I'm right and remove a concern, or I'm wrong and have one less target to check. I can't see innate abilities, only regular ones.

That said I'm unlikely to bother investigating [Imp] as a result. Feel like it's a waste to check their abilities, though imp could ...

Your ability is unlikely to find mafia, this is probably why nobody has bothered commenting on it. You can use it on me if you want to get a big fat 0 in your DMs. But even that doesn't really prove anything about my alignment.

I improve upon getting abilities. In that having 1 ability is better than having 0.

Oliverz144: Please don't worry about low or no 'I'm on the same time as others!' posts.  Please, when you have time and choose to, read and post.  I don't care even 0.01% if you post when I'm online or not, I don't care if it takes us hours to answer each other.  I just wanna read your posts.  See your play.  That means so much to me, and others, in this game.  Saying 'I'm available when you guys are asleep' means nothing to me, just play, please.  It's called 'asynchronous' and glad to have you with us!

[Elephant Parade]

Votecount
- 4maskwolf: (0)
- AnimePigeon: (0)
- Crystalizedmire: (0)
- FallacyofUrist: MaximumSpin (1)
- Imp: (0)
- juicebox: (0)
+ Magma Mater: TricMagic, Imp (2)
- Maximum Spin: (0)
- Oliverz144: (0)
- TricMagic: (0)
- VermilionSkies: (0)
- Wolfkey: (0)

No Lynch: (0)

Not Voting: 4maskwolf, AnimePigeon, Crystalizedmire, FallacyofUrist, juicebox, Magma Mater, Oliverz144, VermilionSkies, Wolfkey

With 12 votes in play, it’s 7 to hammer (6 to hammer No Lynch).

Day 1 ends Tuesday, 7 PM PST (in a bit over 26 hours).

[TricMagic]

And so this tangent has officially been a waste of time. Hope you're happy to have helped mafia Magma Mater.

[Crystalizedmire]

Imp: sorry for the confusion. What I neant by "I thought someone else wrote it" was that I skimmed over Vermillionskies username
Magma Mater: I couldve sworn somewhere that you said that I was mafia.

[Crystalizedmire]

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Could you please elaborate on this Suspicion on Fallacy?

There's something always off aboug his playstyle, like the time they claimed theyre vanilla town and they were superman.
Re:"teamed"
Im using that word to mean sharing a chat; Imp, Maximum Spin, and Fallacy could be sharing a chat without directly being maf.

[Imp]

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Could you please elaborate on this Suspicion on Fallacy?

There's something always off aboug his playstyle, like the time they claimed theyre vanilla town and they were superman.
Re:"teamed"
Im using that word to mean sharing a chat; Imp, Maximum Spin, and Fallacy could be sharing a chat without directly being maf.

I still wanna know why you suspect that of the 2/3 of us, more than you may suspect it of others.  What are you noticing that made it worth speaking about?

[Wolfkey]

I vote no lynch

[Imp]

I vote no lynch

To do that, you need to use red change color, and put no lynch inside the red.  That's the only valid vote method.

But why are you voting to not elim, and what else do you think is worth talking about?