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[Elephant Parade]

Mod note: I've been monitoring the situation and only Imp is/was on track to exceed the per-Phase post limit. Magma Mater, who has posted much less, might hit 40-45 posts. Nobody else is likely to come remotely, and I mean remotely, close. The post limit isn't intended to interfere with the game, only prevent situations like Choose-Your-Own-Spheres D2. Please don't worry about it too much.

Sorry about the interruption; please carry on.

[Magma Mater]

In the post after this one they bring up you might be a survivor, but I don't beleive that's true. After all it's possible for third party to have the win condition of killing another player. Therefore you want to direct the vote or kill to that player, but don't want to outright state it. Your win condition could be fulfilled by day one, killing a potential town while you leave entirely. What say you to this theory Magma Mater?

You ever use Occam's Razor or nah?

Uuuuuuuuuuuurgh.

Magma talks almost exactly like one of the players I least enjoyed playing with on this site.

I really hope those accounts weren't alts of his because otherwise this game is going to be a miserable ego fest.

Nope. I'm a different jerk. Sorry.


Unrelated, I still haven't shared my secret scumread. Not sure why some people are assuming it's Crystalizedmire or juicebox, who are both scummy but aren't outing themselves. That honor is saved for [redacted], whose most recent post is just as scummy as all their other ones.
Let's try to stimulate some discussion here. If anyone can guess who I'm talking about and why, I'll give them one of Imp's fruits tomorrow night. Or a high five or something if Imp decides to be lame. @Oliverz144 you can have first guess.

Also, regarding your question about Vermilion oliverz, I'll explain it briefly because I'm in the mood. He referred to himself as 'too passive'. This tells me two things:
a) He's in a scumhunting mindset from the first post. The subtext is that he's not aggressive enough when hunting for scum. This is a good sign. The fact that it's subtle is also a good sign because it's unlikely to have been said to intentionally manipulate.
b) 'Too passive' is a descriptor that explains his playstyle without venturing into the "excuse" territory. In other words, it doesn't read to me like he's proactively making excuses for why he's not going to be finding scum. It's not ham-fisted enough to be an excuse.
Of course, I could be wrong. It happens. But I'm not afraid of being wrong.

Also also, post limits are great. The 50 post limit is the only reason why I signed up. I can't stand post spammers. The idea that I'm trying to get people to waste their posts though is hilarious.

[Imp]

Imp: I believe you just broke the 25-post-per-day limit (not to be confused with the 50-post-per-Day-Phase limit). I recognize that the former is a bit annoying to track without Mamobo, so I won't be enforcing it too strictly, but please try not to do it again.

I apologize to everyone!  And shall do better.  After this post I believe I have 19 remaining posts for this day, I will be using them sparingly because despite blowing through 30 of them really 'okay-feeling' suddenly 19 is like super far less than 30; clearly I'm insane.

I missed the 50 post limit too. Given Imp has used most of theirs, is Magma trying to get us to waste them all? Tells us town to post more, tells scum to shut up.  Well if that's how it goes maybe we should just Shorten the Day, preferably with them gone if they aren't willing to play.

Tric!  Waiiiiit!  We have people who haven't talked yet, the weekend just ended.  I don't even know who I wanna vote for yet.  I still have 19 posts left for game day.  That's loads!  I'll just use them sparingly, plus who really wants to listen to imp prattle?  Now I'll be more careful and save up my otherwise shorter posts into looooooong less frequent ones!  But we got folks I wanna read their posts!

Bolding is mine:

AP and Vermillion: What are your current reads?

I believe you should be able to see my reads right above your post, CM.
Speaking of, you're the person I forgot.
CM seems fairly content to lie low this game, but has more information out there than half of the people here. Unsure, but leaning townie currently.

I read the readlist, and thought someone else wrote it. I hadnt had the time to post since im vacationing in a different timezone than to what im used to.
And also because a lot of things im about to say is already said.
Magma mater: You want me to shut up because you think Im scum but you cant build a proper case against me because I dont post a lot. What do you want me to do? Wanting scum to shut up is worse for town imo since you cant investigate who their partner is. For the record, im town and youre being evasive with questions.
I could see Fallacy and Imp being teamed. Maximum spin and Fallacy too. My reasoning is that chats are closed during daytime and they need to communicate with eachother inthread.

This is fascinating.  I've seen the complexity of thought CrystalizedMire can use when anti-town, so I know she can use this as town too unless it involves motivation or something to even think that way.

So, if someone helped Verm write his reads, that person did so outside of maf chat or broke major rules together with Verm; CM seems to be consciously and knowingly saying that however Verm got help with his reads, it's NOT from mafiachat -- is that what you mean to say, CM?

And to CM, Fal and I, or FoU and Max, look teamed but unable to talk, consistent with mafiachat access (or access in any other chat that doesn't have day access).

CrystalizedMire, can you help us understand why you think someone helped Verm write those reads?  I'm also curious why FoU looks more likely to be teamed but unable to talk to the person with Max or me, and not anyone else with anyone else - you bring it up as a specific why?

I liked Verm's reads and made Verm an offer of sorts after he posted them; it's essentially the same offer I made everyone except I asked Verm to be the public, possibly known face of my targeters or non-targeters should he choose not to do so, so this can be discussed D2 even if I'm gone if anyone still alive D2 thinks this is useful to talk about given all the new info that surely will exist then.  I absolutely would like 1+ non-public faces too on both sides of the target/not target Imp spectrum!

For the record, I'm not in any chats right now except our game thread itself.

Also, I have no mech info on anyone's role but mine, everything I do today is based on feel and reads.

I could see Fallacy and Imp being teamed. Maximum spin and Fallacy too. My reasoning is that chats are closed during daytime and they need to communicate with eachother inthread.

Examples of this communication?
So much for being lenient on Fallacy this game.

Lenient on Fal or not, I've watched Fal recently be caught 'easily' as part of a scum team; watched Fal be very early elim as a very high power and protective town role (which she denied having all the way through the elim, claiming she was just vanilla town) that town desperately needed alive that game - evil stomped 'us' (I was a survivor with as much power as some entire scumteams! but I sided with town and we had nearly no chance, but with literal superman, which Fal was, we might have), read a now 11-month old game where sole mafia Fal was picked out and elim D1 ....

For us historically here, most of us have a very hard time noticing the rare times FoU is town, and a very high frequency of early elim FoU when Fal is indeed evil (but good Fal also dies about that often, and early, many of us just think FoU is evil again (and again and again) - and it's often been true, FoU had a statistical wrinkle in reality that may have been altered, be neat to see as future games pass and hasn't had nearly as much experience playing good as evil, yet)

Tricccccc you ended the day 24 hours early

I didn’t deserve this

Why am I always scum ;-;

The rules say, buried in the text, “no posting in chats you are in during daytime unless specified otherwise” and the default mafia role PM lists wolf chat as “night only”

Yeah, that's an interesting detail, in part because that's redundant.  Kinda like some of the wording around generic mafiakills, loads of redundancy there.  Kinda makes me think some/all of the mafia may actually be alone in their chats, and the generic mafiakill might be way less interesting than the other mafiakill actions that seem likely to be provided and even likely to have the same 'freedom':

Mafiakill: By default, only one Mafiakill action can be performed per night per mafia team. Many mafiakills, including the generic Mafiakill, are Free.

I expect there's probably 2+ fancy individualized mafiakills or other antitown kills likely to be flying most nights, but I already expected that.  We've seen that in quite a few other B12 games.

Uuuuuuuuuuuurgh.

Magma talks almost exactly like one of the players I least enjoyed playing with on this site.

I really hope those accounts weren't alts of his because otherwise this game is going to be a miserable ego fest.

We can ask for social adjustments.  I don't love the style either, but I learned in my very first game here, players that are just super unpleasant, sometimes it's because they're evil (that may not apply to Mater who rapidly pointed out that game where he was town-like from the start, his first here, he was mafia there).  I hope we get to have a neat enjoyable game too!

And also, yeah im planning on choosing my vote on the person i believe is most likely to be a member of an anti-town faction. Preferably something like wolf/scum/mafia, but in the heat of the battle a 3p will manage aswell

How do you plan to find your target in game like this, where so many people are posting so little, and many people are posting off their meta?

While yes, i exist and yes, i before this have 1 post, ... i am weird? Weird? the only guy from the "oddly players" List who is also "weird" ?? 

Yep!  In that you'd made 1 post, which is not really like you based on my extensive 1 game ever with you - but also that 1 post wasn't very similar to what I'm used to seeing you post - this post is like what I've seen you do that one game.  Together, that got you marked as 'weird'.  Note weird does not, to me, equal bad.  You sure stood out though.

Hey Magma, surely I will post more =)

Cool, I want you doing that too, please.  About what you think is useful for you to talk about, react to, the 'normal stuff anyone would do in a mafia game, that we can use to read that person but really is about that person seeking the information and outcomes that person thinks best'

Also, how are the day/night phases here? Somewhere i read 12/12, but thats probably the players alive 
Dont want to accidentally break the silence of the night some day ( or rather some night :p ) (Addition: I found a votecount, d1 ends tuesday 7pm est, quite some time we got)

- Days are somewhere between 72 and 24 hours depending on the playercount and current day; weekends count for half
 - Nights last 24 hours or whenever all actions are sent in and processed. You must send in your actions; if you aren't taking any, please send in "no action" or something similar.

Oliverz, Elephant will lock the thread when we're not allowed to use it, if you see Elephant saying "someone (or no one) has died" carefully check that post to make sure it doesn't also say something like

It is now Night

That's usually our biggest clue; night will end with a new post from Elephant and the thread will be unlocked, so you should be fine and confident, post it up!  (but no more than 25 posts in 24 hours, and 50 per game day)

Also also, as mentioned before, when you seem the most active i sleep  as to why i only posted once so far

I don't believe you.  All times are my time zone, but the time gaps are what matter

Game start:  August 10, 2024, 05:52:22 pm
Your first post:  August 11, 2024, 07:57:25 am
Your second post: August 12, 2024, 01:08:51 am

I refuse to believe you slept all the time between game start and your first post (14 hours) then ALSO slept all the hours between your first and second post (16 hours).

I can believe you're busy though, but no, I don't believe you're asleep that much   I hope you're not asleep that much, maybe talk to a doctor if you are.

Also also also , what is a "pod" person

The phrase comes from an older movie, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" where a lot of the people in society were being replaced by 'pod people', plant growths that make giant fruit, inside they grow replicas of actual people, who come out and replace the real people but don't act quite right.  It's become a term used for when the people around you, some or all seem possessed or replaced or something.

I'm playing in a way that you feel is odd. This doesn't mean that my alignment is odd. It just means that you don't know how to read me. I'll probably post some more substantial reasons for my reads by EOD, when the time comes to actually push someone into a noose.

That I don't know how to read you is true, but doesn't rule out you as scum, and scum can be VERY happy to play the way you're describing.  Plus it leaves the scum free and flexible to act when the scum's ready and more sure it's less likely to be discussed early and any problems noticed and solved; it's easier to attempt to drive a misunderstanding into a elim with little or no time to clear it up.  You'll "probably post some more substantial reasons for [your] reads by EOD, when the time comes to actually push someone into a noose" if you're scum that suggests wiggle room to adjust and make it work for you.

The least scummy thing about you in my eyes is how direct you're being.  However, the directions you appear to be working towards are not that I can tell highly likely to be pro-town.

You don't like my answer, but my most sure scumread is you, still.  I don't trust that read, I also want to see way more from our quiet folks.  But I don't trust your claims, I don't trust your open and obvious (and rude) manipulation, and I'm not sure I want to play the whole game out with you in it, and that can drive who I recommend we elim too, especially when I don't have enough info to make a better choice.

The depth of my read is 'what is the person working towards'.  You don't to this point feel to me to be working towards a town wincon.  You're angling strangely, and your claims don't fit each other, like your claim of having no role and no abilities, it doesn't match to me how you're posting and interacting with us.

I know townie lies exist, and I try to feel and understand them.  I'm not getting you.  Good thing we have more time left.

This is getting a little ranty but essentially what I'm trying to say is that perhaps my play would look a little less odd if there were at least one other townie in this game who didn't break into a coughing fit when asked what their scumreads are. Looking at Imp and Vermilion here. Please just anything other than a ridiculous scumread on me for not liking the way I'm playing.

Like this, this is only manipulation in my eyes.  You make the claim you'd "perhaps" 'look a little less odd' - I think you mean look more like town? - if 'anyone' played the way you want, but you single out Verm and myself.  You want reads, but you don't want at least my actual read to this point.

Later you call me lame if I don't give you a give fruit ability.

Nah, I'm not moved, impressed, or eager to play the game through with you.

Are you more likely to be scum than a nearly complete non-poster?  I dunno right now.  We have multiple nearly complete non-posters.  I didn't get with my role a list of anyone who was or wasn't on my side, I don't have your 'magic mind' to 'know the right answers' per your preference.

I guess, this is my best response to your playstyle, which you have the right to have, but really.... I'm not enjoying it.  Still care about if you're town or not, still listening to what I understand of what you say.

Your mindgame, catch who you mean, presuming you haven't lied at all in your lists of who is and isn't what in your eyes:

Knows only Max and Fallacy.

Notes CM implies sus of Fal but would kill Juice without consideration of alignment.  HERE is where says a maf outed themself; posters as of then are: 

Mater
Max
Tric
Fou
CM
4mask
Juice
Imp

Then calls a post I make suspicious, "This post reads like mafia trying to convince town that he doesn't know anything about the mafia abilities, or trying too hard not to scumslip." and "the person who outed themselves earlier has continued to scumpost for some reason. They should probably just stop posting." which may or may not be me, but he sure essentially called my post a scumpost by description.
Also asks Juice why Juice thinks CM's answer about killing juice is 'decent'.

Then says:  "I'll say for now that FallacyofUrist, Imp, Maximum Spin, VermilionSkies are town. If you're town and not on this list it'd be nice if you could post more. Specifically @Oliverz144."

Presuming this relates to the earlier list of folks, which Oliverz wasn't one of, and presuming this label of claimed outed scum hasn't shifted to a different name, the possibles are:

Mater
Tric
CM
4mask
Juice

Then restresses he has a townread on Imp and FoU.  Directly tells FoU, "Despite what you say, juicebox does have enough posts for you to form a scumread on him, assuming you put your thinking cap on before reading them."

Then tells me, "Crystalizedmire is mafia, Max Spin is town, TricMagic is town, Fallacy is town, I'm town. Feel free to steal these reads if you'd like, they're pretty great."

That narrows the list down to

CM
4mask
Juice

With a direct claim of maf on CM and an indirect claim of 'can form a scumread on Juice'

But then he says, "Unrelated, I still haven't shared my secret scumread. Not sure why some people are assuming it's Crystalizedmire or juicebox, who are both scummy but aren't outing themselves. That honor is saved for [redacted], whose most recent post is just as scummy as all their other ones."

Process of elim is easy and straightforward, he's calling all three of them scummy or scum, if everything he says is true and factual to his not-changing perception/claims.

The redacted HAS to be 4mask; CM is also mafia he SAID DIRECTLY but now says is just "scummy but not outing themselves"


So, Mater, discuss, maybe tell the rest of the class how 4mask, who you say you haven't played with before, has outed themself as scum, at least in your mind.

Or tell me what I misunderstood, or where you lie/make stuff up as you go/conflict with what you've said before.

[4maskwolf]

Yeah I’ve just been waiting for him to finish his weird FPS and vote me so town actually has something to discuss rather than this weird “teehee I have a special wolfread but I won’t tell youuuuuuu” shenanigans.

[Magma Mater]

I can play in a less irritating way if it helps. But my posts will seem less genuine as a result (because they will be).

@Imp why is 4maskwolf mafia? Sharing my own opinions does nothing for us. You have to get there on your own. Feel free to respond to this later if you want to conserve posts.

Not sure what FPS is.

[Imp]

I can play in a less irritating way if it helps. But my posts will seem less genuine as a result (because they will be).

@Imp why is 4maskwolf mafia? Sharing my own opinions does nothing for us. You have to get there on your own. Feel free to respond to this later if you want to conserve posts.

Not sure what FPS is.

Mater, I only indicate that you appear to be indicating that 4mask is the answer to your riddle/puzzle/nonsense.

I never said I thought 4mask was outed wolf.  I gave my best read on 4mask already.

And on you.

Magma Mater

As for FPS, I am not sure what the mafia term means, I think gambit.  It's all over Mafia universe in games, https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/search.php?searchid=20699900

Here's a sort of quote that makes me think it means gambit:

Favorite FPS has got to be Tyrian Purple. The idea was to have non-existent trust circles that the mafia would desperately try to reach
Favorite FPS I've seen someone else do would be Aman's Referee 3p claim in LG92. He claimed he needed to give two yellow cards to two different kinds of worldcupper "role' which would kill them, but if he killed two of the same kind of worldcupper he'd die instead.
He also claimed immunity to trolling

Sharing your own opinions does nothing for us?

Then I guess you don't belong in this game.  Pity if you're doing something as senseless and strange as FoU as literal superman saying 'I'm vanilla town' in a game where we would no longer believe that claim and when we needed FoU's help and use of that role and towny play.

But I don't see you as towny, and you're making it harder and harder and harder for me to understand you in any way that 'this makes sense as town at all'.  If you're actually town but literally harmful for town by your playstyle and choices, I also need you dead unless we're so lucky we manage to get a town win without needing you dead on the way.

Fix this, maybe?  If you're town we need your help.  You're literally saying you have no help to give, in multiple ways, and you're hard to get along, hard to understand, and hard to get even your ideas from in a non-insulting, 'what do you mean' way.

Reward towny play, punish scummy play, is a commonish saying here.

I really wonder what you and everyone else is going to do with the rest of this day.

[juicebox]

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Not quite the reasoning I was expecting but still a decent answer.

More questions about this.
What were you expecting?
Why did you choose the players you chose? (CM, FoU, yourself)
Given that Crystalizedmire had no reads on FoU or yourself, what would have constituted an unsatisfactory answer?

I was expecting Crystal to say something about how they were more scared of one or the other of us, that they would want one of to be eliminated first because we're harder to read, stuff like that.

I chose CM randomly, Fallacy because he tends to grab people's attention, and myself because I thought I should put myself into the question.

Given that the question was just one I threw out there to try to get some discussion going there were very few answers I would have considered unsatisfactory. If they had said they'd pick at random for example, I would have considered it unsatisfactory.

[AnimePigeon]

/In

I am Mike Wazowski

Sure you are

Love this!

[Magma Mater]

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Not quite the reasoning I was expecting but still a decent answer.

More questions about this.
What were you expecting?
Why did you choose the players you chose? (CM, FoU, yourself)
Given that Crystalizedmire had no reads on FoU or yourself, what would have constituted an unsatisfactory answer?

I was expecting Crystal to say something about how they were more scared of one or the other of us, that they would want one of to be eliminated first because we're harder to read, stuff like that.

I chose CM randomly, Fallacy because he tends to grab people's attention, and myself because I thought I should put myself into the question.

Given that the question was just one I threw out there to try to get some discussion going there were very few answers I would have considered unsatisfactory. If they had said they'd pick at random for example, I would have considered it unsatisfactory.

You chose Crystalizedmire randomly, but would find it unsatisfactory if he chose randomly. Sounds legit.

[TricMagic]

Unrelated, one of the mafia have outed themselves already. Kind of sad honestly. If anyone actually has a daykill or something like that let me know so that I can direct it, thanks.

In ascending order of posts from this. Max, Tric, Fal, Crystal, 4mask, Juice, Imp. And Magma obviously, but they're excluded as it's them making this claim. 7/12 people.

Unrelated, I'll say for now that FallacyofUrist, Imp, Maximum Spin, VermilionSkies are town. If you're town and not on this list it'd be nice if you could post more. Specifically @Oliverz144.

Very relatedly, this cuts it down to 3 people. Me, Crystal, and Fallacy.

Unrelated, I still haven't shared my secret scumread. Not sure why some people are assuming it's Crystalizedmire or juicebox, who are both scummy but aren't outing themselves. That honor is saved for [redacted], whose most recent post is just as scummy as all their other ones.
Let's try to stimulate some discussion here. If anyone can guess who I'm talking about and why, I'll give them one of Imp's fruits tomorrow night. Or a high five or something if Imp decides to be lame. @Oliverz144 you can have first guess.

Seriously, why is it unrelated. Also if you're going to say I've outted myself, you've played too much Undertale. Roles are not indicative of alignment, given we submitted them. Games aren't custom built here around submissions usually. The roles are built around which alignment rng gives you. That only leaves Fal, who as usual hasn't given enough information to decide one way or the other. They're too easy a pick.

So, Magma. What say you to this narrowing of options? Cause I am extremely annoyed that you didn't bother to outright say it to my face. I tend to think well of people accusing me, and this isn't it. How much time have you wasted with this farce again?

[juicebox]

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Not quite the reasoning I was expecting but still a decent answer.

More questions about this.
What were you expecting?
Why did you choose the players you chose? (CM, FoU, yourself)
Given that Crystalizedmire had no reads on FoU or yourself, what would have constituted an unsatisfactory answer?

I was expecting Crystal to say something about how they were more scared of one or the other of us, that they would want one of to be eliminated first because we're harder to read, stuff like that.

I chose CM randomly, Fallacy because he tends to grab people's attention, and myself because I thought I should put myself into the question.

Given that the question was just one I threw out there to try to get some discussion going there were very few answers I would have considered unsatisfactory. If they had said they'd pick at random for example, I would have considered it unsatisfactory.

You chose Crystalizedmire randomly, but would find it unsatisfactory if he chose randomly. Sounds legit.

Yes choosing a person to ask a question at random is highly different from choosing to kill someone at random.

[AnimePigeon]

It's better because it's different. We've all done the random voting stage, we know how it goes. It ends with someone flailing, some angry veteran glaring at them, and that poor soul (usually town) being bullied into a bandwagon that leads to their demise.

Surely we can do better.

I think my approach helps set up a better baseline for analysis of player actions and perspectives on later days. How does Imp look to Fallacy? How does 4maskwolf look to Tric? Where is all the pressure on AnimePigeon coming from?

You know, the small questions that build up to big cases-by-association.

A marvelous fun is about to break free.

Whom do you fear the most? Whom do you fear the least?

For me, I'm town.

I believe you.


Ninja'd:

Heccin ouch. My condolences. Hope EP gets that sorted out real quicklike.

Who're you most and least afraid of?

Fear is everything.

I only know like 2 people here, yourself and Max. I can't really answer the question.

Well which of me and Max do you fear more? Surely Max. You wouldn't possibly fear little old me, would you~?

Looking at Page 2, I can't see any real pressure on myself here atleast.

[AnimePigeon]

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Could you please elaborate on this Suspicion on Fallacy?

[AnimePigeon]

Heccin ouch. My condolences. Hope EP gets that sorted out real quicklike.

Who're you most and least afraid of?

Fear is everything.

I only know like 2 people here, yourself and Max. I can't really answer the question.

That's debatable.

You can always answer most questions, sure your more familiar with 1/2 players, but they doesn't mean you can't answer the question in regard to just those players or maybe your rather suspicious of all the players your unfamiliar of. There would have been a bunch of responses to the questions you could have made, that I would have been okay with and understood but almost refusing to comment is rather unhelpful.

[AnimePigeon]

@Imp target me tonight please.

Crystalizedmire, if you had a kill, would you use it on me or Fallacy? And can you please explain your choice?

Fallacy is always a little suspicious to me regardless of alignment so Im not really sure about their alignment. I also want to be more lenient with them. So if I had a kill, I would kill you.

Interesting phrasing here. You seem to imply suspicion of Fallacy, but opt to kill juicebox without commenting on what his alignment could be. What are your thoughts on juicebox now?

Unrelated, one of the mafia have outed themselves already. Kind of sad honestly. If anyone actually has a daykill or something like that let me know so that I can direct it, thanks.

Care to elaborate on why Imp should target you?

Trying to signal something to them?