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Author Topic: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?  (Read 2195 times)

DWARFFRAWD

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What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« on: June 12, 2024, 04:22:11 pm »

Mace, Warhammer, Morningstar.

I think mace is the weakest
and the armor-destroying power is low,

I don't think I need to use Mace
 if there's a Warhammer or Morningstar in many ways

Am I right to understand?
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anewaname

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2024, 02:03:40 pm »

The warhammer and morningstar are lighter weapons, so a strong dwarf can reach maximum velocity with them. For these dwarfs, a mace is better because it can deliver more momentum to the target.
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aSpatula66

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2024, 03:41:35 pm »

The morningstar is not a blunt weapon, it is actually a piercing weapon.
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Tomsod

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2024, 05:10:14 am »

Maces definitely have higher damage, but hammers are better against armor.  So the former are for zombies, and the latter are for enemy soldiers.  Although unless you're waging war on steel-clad dwarves, maces have satisfactory armor-piercing ability as well.  Also, maces are strictly better when installed in weapon traps.  Morningstars aren't great, because they're edged, but you can't get steel or masterwork ones.  But when treated as blunt weapons (edged damage can convert to blunt), they're almost like hammers.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2024, 05:14:56 am by Tomsod »
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Splint

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2024, 01:22:59 am »

While I'm a few days late, my understanding is the following.

  • Maces hit twice the area of a warhammer or morningstar, and weigh a little more. This makes it a better weapon for dispatching poorly armored targets, and makes it more likely to pulp what it hits (important if zombies are a concern.) However because of this wider hit area, they aren't able to transfer as much force through armor and consequently they struggle to actually kill armored targets with headshots. However this higher pulping chance makes them an excellent support weapon as they pulverize limbs like nobody's business.
  • Warhammers have a smaller contact area, allowing greater force transfer through armor and making them more likely to break bones and much more able to kill a target wearing a helmet with a headshot. However they're also less likely to pulp the target because of that smaller contact area. In a mixed mace and hammer squad, you'll see warhammers consequently score the majority of kills.
  • Morningstars are essentially the mace skill's answer to both armor and hurts more against large targets than a mace does. While not able to pulp as easily and not as heavy as a mace, its edged damage allows a macedwarf to be a greater  threat to larger or armored enemies, as they can penetrate light or inferior-material armors better than maces and hammers might thanks to their comparably tiny contact area and the edged damage lets them chip bones on very large creatures quite easily like dagger and spear thrusts can (it's actually better in some respects than spears or pikes for the job due to its smaller contact edge damage than even those dedicated piercing weapons.) Basically, where maces and warhammers struggle (against armor and large targets respectively,) a morningstar can be used to deadly effect, assuming you can scavenge, buy or steal a decent quality iron one (or get lucky with a mood.)

The above is at least my experience with them.

tl;dr

- Maces work better against larger enemies and crappy armor. Really good at mangling but not killing, which can make them preferrable over hammers in some situations and a good supporting weapon.
- Warhammers work better against armor and struggle a bit against large but unarmored targets. Better at killing armored targets outright, not so great for mangling.
- Morningstars can punch through some armor and hurt large targets more easily than either of the above, but good-quality and good material specimens are hard to find without modding.

Urist Mchateselves

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2024, 01:06:30 pm »

I think it might be actually possible to make morningstars (and other human weapons) if you have a human blacksmith in your fort (with full citizenship, he cannot be a short or long term guest).

No it isn't. Maybe I got stung by a GDS and didn't notice.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 08:40:50 am by Urist Mchateselves »
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If you're so sure that you're gonna end up killing all of dwarven civilization, why not make a statue depicting 2147483647 dead dwarves, all of which are burning? Name it something good, like Deaddead the Dead Dead Dead-Dead of Dying. Just put it in the main hall or something, as a grim reminder that they're all gonna die.

aSpatula66

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2024, 01:42:16 pm »

That is entirely false.


A citizen being human doesn't tie them to human civilizations in any way. If they were previously a member of a human civilization they will no longer be after they join your site.


There is no way (aside from modding a playable civilization that has access to morningstars or reactions that produce them) to allow morningstars be be created in fortress mode.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2024, 01:46:15 pm by aSpatula66 »
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Urist Mchateselves

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2024, 01:47:12 pm »

Oh. Sorry. I could have sworn I read that on the wiki.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2024, 09:47:42 pm by Urist Mchateselves »
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If you're so sure that you're gonna end up killing all of dwarven civilization, why not make a statue depicting 2147483647 dead dwarves, all of which are burning? Name it something good, like Deaddead the Dead Dead Dead-Dead of Dying. Just put it in the main hall or something, as a grim reminder that they're all gonna die.

Splint

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Re: What is Mace better than Warhammer and Morningstar?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2024, 05:38:03 pm »

That is entirely false.

A citizen being human doesn't tie them to human civilizations in any way. If they were previously a member of a human civilization they will no longer be after they join your site.

There is no way (aside from modding a playable civilization that has access to morningstars or reactions that produce them) to allow morningstars be be created in fortress mode.

Or adding them to the civ's default weapon roster via an entity patch (or adding them to the desired civ manually pre v50)

Oh. Sorry. I could have sworn I read that on the wiki.

You may be thinking of armor. From memory creatures tasked with making armor and clothing will make it sized for their own race unless otherwise specified. At least I had a human smith I had a while back do that.