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[Imp]

Qua, what do you think of EP's vote pattern and reasons given for voting/unvoting?  What got your vote on EP anyway, besides 'he is unlikely to be hammered while you sleep'?

CM, What do you think about Qua's read of MS here?  What do you think it's based on, and do you agree with it?

Imp, this right here is town!spin. Laser focused and no-nonsense. Could in principle be fake, but that would be a first.

TM ...

We can't rely on night data either since that could cause a called shot. Though I myself am somewhat fine with it.

So, if there's a night kill, and let's say it's Qua, and Qua flips paladin.  I don't think we're going to think that's a called shot, and I think you're making a fair number of unsubstantiated guesses in general.  This may not be useless, but let's say we see Qua's flip and Qua's town.  So far you look like you're just hunting Qua - and you sound like you want a Qua flip even if Qua's town.  I think that's awful, no matter what your alignment is, really poor play period, I hope you outgrow that dragon-side or whatever.  Wanting town dead... wanting others in general dead - is a anti-town trait to me, it's huge part of why I wanted Shadowdorf dead in FoU's game.  I get that town can think that way, but why are you thinking that way this game?

And let's say, for whatever reason Qua flips, and Qua's town.  What then?  Do you even have reads on anyone but Qua, who you don't have a read on other than 'flip Qua, even if they are town, die die Qua Qua'?  What's your plan for winning this game, presuming flipping Qua doesn't end it?

MS, what day do you think we should start playing this game seriously and with attention?

EP, do you have a current read of MS?

[Maximum Spin]

MS, what day do you think we should start playing this game seriously and with attention?

Immediately. We should have been doing that already. Were you not?

[Imp]

MS, what day do you think we should start playing this game seriously and with attention?

Immediately. We should have been doing that already. Were you not?

I'm more interested in asking you, who here you think is doing so and isn't, and why, what's your reads?

[Elephant Parade]

EP, do you have a current read of MS?

Yes.

[Quarque]

Qua, what do you think of EP's vote pattern and reasons given for voting/unvoting?  What got your vote on EP anyway, besides 'he is unlikely to be hammered while you sleep'?

The reason I voted EP is because I'm used to seeing more aggression from them. We've seen very little scum play from Elephant but the one useful scumtell I picked up from that ancient game you once linked me was precisely this. He was a little too friendly.
The vote pattern fits that narrative.
Then again, Max seems very convinced I'm wrong about this and I'm starting to wonder if I am.

Why am I slippery?

In the circles BYOR I was very confident that you were town. This time I'm not as confident, it's hard to give a rational explanation. More of a vibe thing.

Whoever is the demon is doing a good job faking it. Even starting to doubt Tric now. In circles BYOR Fallacy was hiding in madness too and a lot of people (including me) fell for it.
Tric: what I think is going on here is that you got a bad vibe from me doing the (admittedly unusual) line of questioning on CM and you can't see beyond that. But you're wrong. What are your thoughts about the other players?

Alright, Mamobo has been updated to show your total and daily post counts!

I don't see it?

[Imp]

Qua, what do you think of EP's vote pattern and reasons given for voting/unvoting?  What got your vote on EP anyway, besides 'he is unlikely to be hammered while you sleep'?

The reason I voted EP is because I'm used to seeing more aggression from them. We've seen very little scum play from Elephant but the one useful scumtell I picked up from that ancient game you once linked me was precisely this. He was a little too friendly.
The vote pattern fits that narrative.
Then again, Max seems very convinced I'm wrong about this and I'm starting to wonder if I am.

Thanks.

Your read on EP's actually pretty close to mine, though EP's recent and not so useful 'yes' to me (sure I could have worded my question better) is actually more like I'm used to seeing from EP, especially this early in play, with those not confirmed town to EP, or presumed town by EP.

My updated reads, along with my counts of each person's total post #s (since I don't see that tracked by Mamobo either, maybe it's private for web?).

MS 4 Unclear if MS is involved or following the game.
Imp 6
EP 9 - Focused very early in the game, playing quite reasonably.  This is actually making me uneasy this game.  He went for TM for the same reasons I'm concerned about TM, and I don't like TM's reasoning either.  However, Qua and MS both think Tric's town; EP backs down on MS's opinion TM is town.  "playing to please people, + playing carefully?" except I like the logic, more than anyone else so far.  But that is also potentially 'playing to please people, and what people probably want to see, which = playing carefully'.  Very careful-seeming wording about MS's to-me-offhand pick of EP as likely CO, but I still really like the logic shown.  Most games I don't like the thinking EP shows this early, which is weirding me out.
TM 10 - Definitely hunting, very focused on Qua, for reasons that don't make conscious sense for me.
CM 11 - Focused and talkative for CM, and making sense, asking decent questions.  CM feels less slippery to me than usual, especially this early.
Qua 11 - Feels weird, not like other games with Qua in them (but that's true actually of everyone but MS).  Not acting like demoralized scum Qua, otherwise I have no idea what Qua I'm seeing here.  They've probed CM, me (very lightly), not probed MS, TM, or Qua; stated an opinion on CM (little too slippery), TM (townTric), EP (unclear why voted), me (out of my meta) MS (town!MS and laser focused).

Qua, when convenient, maybe when you have some more people to answer/things to discuss than just answering this one question, how does MS seem so laser focused to you?  They're around 100 words posted this game, and to me, I don't see anything that doesn't look randomish/surface level.  That's totally within MS meta, and can be a show, but I don't see the lasers and guess I'm missing a lightshow.


So, I'll try a path I haven't explored before.

Everyone:  I'm good aligned, but I do 'nasty stuff' to person or people - it's stuff I really only want to do to scum.

We only have 1 scum, so the use of what I can do vs the harm I can do is, ehh to me and I have only a 25% chance to pick right.

Presuming I'm not our elim today, I'm open to discussion about who the heck I should attempt to mess up, should night happen.  I'll still pick my target(s) [which might be nobody if I stay this unsure who to target], but I really want ideas.  Also, maybe this will help, should our evil have to think about not getting messed up by me, however I can mess them up if I do target them for my form of get-wrecked, so maybe I can eat some evil resources in the process.  I presume I'm being vague enough to avoid a called shot - but if I get called, that maybe saves a more action-useful townie, so I might go further.  More importantly though, planning who, if anyone, to f-up in my own special way(s), discuss if interested.

[Quarque]

Qua, when convenient, maybe when you have some more people to answer/things to discuss than just answering this one question, how does MS seem so laser focused to you?  They're around 100 words posted this game, and to me, I don't see anything that doesn't look randomish/surface level.  That's totally within MS meta, and can be a show, but I don't see the lasers and guess I'm missing a lightshow.

It was based on initial vibe check. We've seen very few posts from Spin so it's definitely not a rock solid read.

Maximum Spin, do you see any reason to vote Imp beyond eliminating alternatives?

Crystalizedmire, who do you think is the better vote between Maximum Spin and Imp?

Imp, regarding your idea - I am scared to spend any time or posts on discussing this, because I feel we need to focus all of our resources on the primary question of whom to eliminate. That seems hard enough.
Also a question: how do you think you would handle a posting limit as scum?

Elephant Parade:

As for who else it could be: literally anyone except me, we're three pages into the game.

Since we don't have enough info, do you have any ideas who to interrogate?

[TricMagic]

EP, do you have a current read of MS?

Yes.

Referencing other posts on this page. What type of post is that Elephant Parade? They ask, you say, and not much else?

Imp, I'll note I want scum dead. Wanting Quarque to get lynched is not the same as wanting town lynched, because there is the chance that that was a scum slip and not ill-read town slip. There isn't a huge difference between the two, both would have info the rest of us dont, so would have appeared similarly. So, Imp. Which one is it? This is rhetorical, there is no way to know for most beyond lynching them.


Max is probobly town, probobly. No nfo, so a wait and see approach. He's right that we should be hunting with limited posts.
Imp is allegic to hammers, again. That's not alignment indicated, they just hate hammers.

[Crystalizedmire]

CM, What do you think about Qua's read of MS here?  What do you think it's based on, and do you agree with it?

Imp, this right here is town!spin. Laser focused and no-nonsense. Could in principle be fake, but that would be a first.

Genuinely don't understand where Quarque got that read from. Sure, Maximum Spin hasn't posted much yet but I wouldn't call Maximum Spin laser focused. Only half of his posts actually has any substance(His second and thrid post in this game).

Crystalizedmire, who do you think is the better vote between Maximum Spin and Imp?

I get town vibes from Imp so I think we should vote Maximum Spin.

EP, do you have a current read of MS?

Yes.

Explain your read to us. If you choose to not do so because you already did, then say how your read of Maximum Spin has changed.

[Elephant Parade]

EP, do you have a current read of MS?

Yes.

Referencing other posts on this page. What type of post is that Elephant Parade? They ask, you say, and not much else?

I don't want to explain my read on MS because that would make it easier for scum!MS to be townread. I'll say that I read him as town, and I'll explain once he posts more, whether or not I change my mind.

[TricMagic]

Time to lurk then, cause you're not getting any more until day 2 Elephant. What type of reasoning is that anyway, max already knows this.

[Elephant Parade]

Qua, when convenient, maybe when you have some more people to answer/things to discuss than just answering this one question, how does MS seem so laser focused to you?  They're around 100 words posted this game, and to me, I don't see anything that doesn't look randomish/surface level.  That's totally within MS meta, and can be a show, but I don't see the lasers and guess I'm missing a lightshow.

Elephant Parade:

As for who else it could be: literally anyone except me, we're three pages into the game.

Since we don't have enough info, do you have any ideas who to interrogate?

I don't like that you cropped out the part of my post immediately after that where I interrogate Max, even if I've since backed off on him. I don't know if it was on purpose, but you're essentially stripping my post of the answer to your question:

I know this is within Tric's meta but he could be faking it and, quite frankly, he needs to develop a better one.

Elephant Parade, Tric faking it is not impossible but seems unlikely. Trying to educate him by voting him out won't work and unfortunately helps any other demon. Who else could it be?

It doesn't seem particularly unlikely to me. I haven't seen him fake it yet, but I've never played a game where he was scum (though there was that one scum!Tric Discord game where he indeed didn't fake it). As for who else it could be: literally anyone except me, we're three pages into the game. I don't really like MS guessing I'm the Chosen One because it seems like a strong scum move (if I am, he can go "look, my reads were good"; if I'm not, he can go "I was just generating discussion/muddying the waters for scum"). I can see how he would genuinely arrive at that conclusion, though, and I'm not going to scumread him when he's only posted twice.

I don't have an opinion on the debacle surrounding you other than that Tric is silly, which is unfortunate given that it contains most of the non-RVS content of the thread (hence my lack of real reads).

You should probably explain to Tric why you questioned CM's claim of being "Town."

MS: Do you actually think I'm the Chosen One?

I'll ask questions when I reread the thread today. I obviously don't know what I'll find, which meansI don't know exactly who I'll question. I will somewhat favor pushing people who I don't think have been adequately pushed yet, which means CM and Imp.

He's moved on, but I still think you need to explain your logic re: your initial CM push to Tric, since he thought it was some kind of slip. He might have figured it out, though.

Time to lurk then, cause you're not getting any more until day 2 Elephant. What type of reasoning is that anyway, max already knows this.

Why do you think Max isn't going to post more until Day 2? I don't think Max knows exactly why I'm townreading him, though he might have guessed.

[Elephant Parade]

EBWOP: Obviously Max has been pushed least of all. I don't know why I left him out; probably because I have a read on him.

[Imp]

EBWOP: Obviously Max has been pushed least of all. I don't know why I left him out; probably because I have a read on him.

See, this is the type of error of logic I expect from EP early and mid game, but without the explanation - or any awareness that he's made an error at all.  EP seems to me to be very smart, but not very self-aware, especially not of the errors of thinking EP tends to leap into.  I'm basing that on meta - I've read, for example, EP's and Jim's mason chat in FoU's last game.  The level of arrogance, brilliance, and jumping to wrong conclusions for iffy or off the wall reasons - that's what I expect from town EP.  And not much self checking, I sometimes see a form of 'what am I missing' or 'why doesn't this make sense' - but I don't see careful thought about what others think, or going back and finding errors in his own evaluation.

What I think I see here is EP talking to folks he knows are town, and trying to please, correct, fit in, then in response to the same thing he doesn't wanna give Max - probably scum!EP.  I'd vote EP, but we have like 2 days of possible talk time left, everyone's got close to 40 or more messages left, and a vote on EP takes him to L-1.


Yeah, Max hasn't been pushed much.  But he's Max, who can push Max, especially D1, but ever?  Who can alignment-read Max, day 1, 4 posts, and around 100 total words?  Yet we have several of us saying we townread Max.  I'm sitting here going 'whut', but I know most of you are town.  Y'all are throwing my reads, but I'll adjust   It would be really nice if Max is town, but that's as far as I can say - I have a perfect, full-null read on Max right now, and don't understand why or how any of you (except the scum) can read Max as anything.

Imp, regarding your idea - I am scared to spend any time or posts on discussing this, because I feel we need to focus all of our resources on the primary question of whom to eliminate. That seems hard enough.
Also a question: how do you think you would handle a posting limit as scum?

Hey, if we can RVS we can discuss whatever; can be part of larger posts.

It really is a matter of elimination; if we're wrong about who we elim D1, I wanna mess up the scum giving us better chances if the game goes past N1.  I don't want to target a townie, but I'll take targeting the second and/or third scummiest.  It's really the same conversation, I'm just asking us to get our reads in and posted before hammer or end of day, because I'm as allergic to hammers as I am allergic to messing up townies in a game where that messing up might matter.  But I'll vote or mess up scum all game long, but who?

Same people we gonna vote, same reasons.  I think I'm better at town reading, especially early game, than finding scum (for all I have top-townie-read scum!TM in that short discord game we tried recently) but this game is pretty hard for me to read, so I want:

1) More to read!
2) Reads from people before the end of day/hammer.

I don't wanna mess up people who maybe can help town win if this is a multi-day game.  I don't want to reveal any details about town, save what I've revealed about myself.  But some sense of who the heck the scummiest is/are before day ends, in case our elim isn't scum... that's some of my focus.

Currently, I slightly/weakly town read CM and TM.  Max is pure null, and Qua is weak town lean with intense weird what is this moments, that I'm not sure if I should scumread or disregard as town poo.

As for scum!Imp and posting limit - I don't know.  I'm still feeling my way through this, my very first posting count limit game.  My strategy is almost the same every role - pro-town as possible.

Post counts:

MS 4
Imp 7
EP 12
TM 12
CM 12
Qua 12

I think this is our current vote count:

------------------------
-> Elephant Parade* --2-- Quarque*, TricMagic*,
Imp*                       --1-- Maximum Spin*,
Maximum Spin*       --1-- Crystalizedmire*
Quarque*                --0--
Crystalizedmire*      --0--
TricMagic*               --0--
No One                   --0--

Not Voting         --3-- Elephant Parade*, Imp,

4 to Hammer. Day ends on March 14, 2024 at 18:00 Central Daylight Time (~30 hours remaining).

NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.

[Elephant Parade]

Rereading the thread, the Quarque-CM interaction has actually been explained to Tric multiple times, which makes it even more bizarre that he thinks it's a slip. This doesn't change my read, but sorry for pestering you to explain it to him, Quarque.

Quarque:

Elephant Parade: What players here do you think are easy to read?

Sofanthiel: What's your first feeling about Crystallizedmire here?

Maximum Spin: In how many private chats are you?

Crystalizedmire: As what alignment do you inspect?

Crystalizedmire, any particular reason why you ignored the question? I noticed you were online.

Why were you so hung up on CM not immediately answering an RVS question?

Also, I completely missed your RVS question so I guess I'll answer it now: none of them.

Crystallizedmire: I really don't like these two questions:

MS: Do you actually think I'm the Chosen One?

I feel like I shouldn't answer this because I don't want you to get killed, but if I were scum I'd take the called shot.

Why do you think that Elephant Parade is chosen one? If you won't answer that, why do you think that stating that you think that Elephant Parade is chosen one will cause scum to believe that?

You should probably explain to Tric why you questioned CM's claim of being "Town."

I thought it was pretty obvious, Town in this game is called "good". Also, sorry about thinking that sof is in this game, I haven't played any mafia games on this forum without him.

Might as well blow another post before I go to sleep.

Imp is difficult to read because the post limits put them far outside of meta.
Crystalizedmire feels just a little too slippery.
I have to think again about Elephant. At least the vote is safe from hammers here.

Why am I slippery?

Town!Max clearly doesn't want to improve scum's read on who the Chosen One is, which is why he was reluctant to answer. Both of your questions would do exactly that. Fishing for pro-scum information isn't out of character for scum!you: in FBYOR, after I said I planted a bomb on you and said I wouldn't discuss the trigger, you asked if it would go off if you performed a mafiakill.

Presuming I'm not our elim today, I'm open to discussion about who the heck I should attempt to mess up, should night happen.  I'll still pick my target(s) [which might be nobody if I stay this unsure who to target], but I really want ideas.  Also, maybe this will help, should our evil have to think about not getting messed up by me, however I can mess them up if I do target them for my form of get-wrecked, so maybe I can eat some evil resources in the process.  I presume I'm being vague enough to avoid a called shot - but if I get called, that maybe saves a more action-useful townie, so I might go further.  More importantly though, planning who, if anyone, to f-up in my own special way(s), discuss if interested.

Why crowdsource this instead of just blasting your strongest scumread? That's what I'd do in your position. I'm not sure what you expect others to contribute barring us revealing parts of our roles.