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Author Topic: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 5 Design)  (Read 15083 times)

Quarque

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #165 on: March 09, 2024, 04:15:44 am »

Quote from: votebox
The Wovenmen (5): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, Jerick, TFF
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (3): TricMagic, Doomblade, Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
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Light forger

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #166 on: March 09, 2024, 05:17:20 am »

Quote from: votebox
The Wovenmen (6): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, Jerick, TFF, Lightforger
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (3): TricMagic, Doomblade, Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Honestly I don't really like wovenmen but I dislike the new electric animals more so... democracy in action?
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TricMagic

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #167 on: March 09, 2024, 10:37:46 am »

The difference between Land and Sky. Land has lightning animals displacing whales. Sky has Zappybaras pets not actual resource-related stuff. Who knows, maybe they're called that cause they have fur that stands on end in lightning storms. The writing doesn't say. (Remnant of the previous cause they're fun.)
edit: but have one without that small part.

Lightning beneath the Sky(closed door edition, original author doomblade)

As the practice of metallurgy developed in the time before ashfall, many regions developed their own preferred metals and smithing. Ixam was favored towards whalebone due to sheer abundance, while the inland citiess would regularly substitute metal for the glossy bone they had initially relied on, occasionally even integrating it into Ziggawatts for specific deities in a departure from tradition.

When the ashfall came, the inland was luckily shielded from the tidal waves and the great flood, not taking nearly as much damage as the coast. While some cities practice sacrifice, the Thirsting Wars were less intense. It was around this time that a city in the Frosthollows, Ohm, discovered an intriguing reaction. By placing whalebone into a stone jar with two or more whalebone rods through the top of the lid and then channeling lightning through it, a special type of carbon steel was developed with cetrical properties closer to whalebone than plain iron, and plain iron could be produced by substituting charcoal or similar sources for the bone. Tattoos were recommended for safety, as were gloves.

With the advantage of large magnetite deposits and a hastily formed alliance with the other inland cities, Ixam was taken following the return of the sky by a mryiad force armed and armored in sharp bronze and steel, their gleaming blades and spears superior to the ichor weapons wielded by the remnants of Ixam.

The new government, as to celebrate their vitory as part of rebuilding, constructed an array of electrodes along the split center of the Grand Ziggawatt, creating one of the great wonders of the world: Ixam's Ladder. As the Twelve Bay Confederation settled into the new hands of power, other things changed as well: the priesthood, previously a powerful political entity, saw itself largely subsumed by the secular side of government and much of the tradition of sacrifice banned. There was large political friction between inland and the coastal bay cities, but as the years past and the powerful mingled, many from inland viewed Ixam as their true home, while a diaspora of citizens looking for new opportunities revitalized the coast.


Quote from: Fina Votebox
The Wovenmen (6): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, Jerick, TFF, Lightforger
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (2): Doomblade, Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (1): TricMagic,
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 10:44:59 am by TricMagic »
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Doomblade187

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #168 on: March 09, 2024, 12:25:20 pm »

Yeah the zappybaras aren't like meant as a feature they're just there to be cute and for the pun. There's a reason the other electric animals were removed :p
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Man of Paper

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #169 on: March 09, 2024, 01:12:25 pm »

But to be clear, you do understand that that is still something I need to take into consideration more than typical fluff, right? I've been around you people long enough to know you like to blur as many lines as possible to get what you want, and that can lead to fuckery.

So if you're making lightning animals outside of whales, when lightning and biomodding and animals are already things being codified and therefore something you are working with consistently, I have to look at it as a step in that direction even if it is just for a pet-like animal.

Fluff for things like governments and polities is one thing, but an actual object or entity in a pregame where those things do become your armory choices is a whole separate can of lightning worms.
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Doomblade187

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #170 on: March 09, 2024, 01:54:49 pm »

But to be clear, you do understand that that is still something I need to take into consideration more than typical fluff, right? I've been around you people long enough to know you like to blur as many lines as possible to get what you want, and that can lead to fuckery.

So if you're making lightning animals outside of whales, when lightning and biomodding and animals are already things being codified and therefore something you are working with consistently, I have to look at it as a step in that direction even if it is just for a pet-like animal.

Fluff for things like governments and polities is one thing, but an actual object or entity in a pregame where those things do become your armory choices is a whole separate can of lightning worms.
Yes, i do understand this.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

andrea

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #171 on: March 09, 2024, 04:36:43 pm »

While it is late for it to be included, I wanted to put in writing an idea for an addendum to the wovenmen, as I am not a huge fan of continuing human sacrifice as before. I had this idea earlier, but couldn't actually write it down earlier.

Wovenmen - Self sacrifice of the Woven

Not every surviving human being in the vast forests to the south of Monsoon Point was a member of the Ziggawatt Alliances. After the initial apocalyptic eruptions which cast the northern lands under ash, many of the Monsoon Point peoples had initially sought cover further inland, within the forests - famously, of course, including the first sacrifice of the Thirsting Wars, the Novice. However, while most of them either died or sought shelter in the cities as ecological conditions worsened, not all did - completely unbeknownst to the Ziggawatt Alliances, a minority of the original inland survivors managed to seek survival within the Choladaic Rainforest, within the Evergreen Riverway, and within the Frosthollows.

These inland survivors ultimately engaged in a highly nomadic way of life, traveling to the coast, engaging in extremely occasional WhaleSlaying (able to get away with this thanks to their extremely low population). They would store their gains in Ichor Jars, and then travel back inland. But they didn't slay whales to subsist - WhaleSlaying was still far too rare for that to be remotely possible, and the air would still have killed them. Instead, whereas the Ziggawatt Cities were led by their circumstances and sociopolitical order to sacrifice each other, the much more solitary inland survivors were driven to to become far more radical in the traditional way of self-sacrifice, using the products of the whales they slayed to heavily alter themselves beyond the limits of their human form, a process performed across their whole lives.

The lines of tattoos across the bodies of these rural survivors became incredibly, increasingly complex patterns that covered nearly one's entire skin by the time one was a mature adult, often looking as if they were shrouded in an extremely detailed piece of red fabric - hence the term "Wovenmen" they came to be known by. Further, pieces of organ, pieces of blubber, pieces of flesh from the whales were often implanted into these Wovenmen, seemingly at random, but very much intentionally - the Wovenmen came to understand that they could use whaleblubber to store cetrical charge (usually acquired through Storm Dancing far inland, far from the cities, and find particular ways through their tattoos to have these pieces of charge interact with whaleflesh and whale organs to produce certain effects. Further, through time living inland, some Wovenmen found that they could create implants out of other objects within the other regions of the world they lived in, using strange fruits, seeds, or minerals.

For the most part, given the extreme survival environment, these effects imparted the Wovenmen with a certain vitality, as if they were being driven by the charge itself - making them faster, making them stronger, but usually just making them less hungry, less thirsty, less lethally poisoned by the air (even if Wovenmen didn't usually get incredibly old). Some Wovenmen, using a substance called "xocolatl" produced from the seedpods of the rainforest, are said to have been able to expend this energy in rare bursts of speed and strength when they were not in survival mode. Some Wovenmen, implanting a mixture of pine tar from the Riverway and whale-flesh, are said to have been able to rapidly climb trees through a strange attractive cetric force. Some Wovenmen, implanting crystals from the Frosthollows, were able to quicken their reflexes to practically instant levels.


(I tried to keep all the clearly mechanically relevant pieces above this line.)

For many in the Bay Twelve Confederation, the end of the Thirsting Wars was seen as a clean slate - the rains opening back up to quite literally wash away the blood of the most horrific era that essentially anybody of the Monsoon Point people or their descendants had ever seen. A new time in which to move on towards new beginnings, new constructions, new lives, with the sins of the old days forgotten (or at least forgiven) with the end of the ash and the return of the rain. However, history is full of irony - it was only years after the Thirsting Wars ended at all that eerie strangers showed up at the walls of the Bay Twelve Confederation's cities. Worse, these strangers had skin seemingly entirely the color of whaleblood tattoos, and unrecognizable flesh-colored lumps lodged halfway into the outsides of their bodies - it was usually quite clear to the city guards that these were in fact the vengeful wraiths of their sacrifice victims, wearing their own flayed skins and carved-out hearts. The first response was usually absolute terror and violence.

While the cities had been unaware of the Wovenmen during the Thirsting Wars, the reverse had not been the same - it's pretty hard to miss large cities constantly bringing down lightning onto Ziggawatts, and also very frequently on fire during wars. The Wovenmen had obviously figured something had been wrong, and had kept a distance anyway simply due to the cities leaving very little charge for them to draw from the skies. However, with the end of the ashes and the return of the rains, a renewed optimism filled many Wovenmen - they had had to sacrifice much to survive, out in the harsh wilds, but as much as most Wovenmen venerated strict self-sacrifice, the idea that their brethren had had to sacrifice less was appealing. History is full of many ironies, though. Being met instead with violence was a harsh wake-up - and in the cases where the cities' guards could be calmed down and an explanation could be provided, the realization that the cities had turned to truly horrifically sacrificing OTHER people to survive usually made the Wovenmen, harshly traditionalist, much angrier.

The result rapidly turned into larger-scale violence. Despite the difference in scale between the Wovenmen and the Bay Twelve Confederation, the fighting went in the former's favor for a few reasons. Firstly, the gradually improving conditions allowed Wovenmen to meet and coordinate far more easily than they had previously been able to. Secondly, the Thirsting Wars themselves had so exhausted the Bay Twelve Confederation that even after some years of recovery their size was far smaller than the twelve cities should have supported. Thirdly, the Wovenmen were joined by many defectors from the Bay Twelve Confederation who had grown incredibly embittered with the rule and actions of the priesthood and Ziggawatt Alliances and craved a change in leadership. Fourthly, the electrical weapons left from the Thirsting Wars were completely useless against the Wovenmen, who were almost entirely covered in tattoos. Thankfully, even this "larger-scale" violence was still very small, given how few people... existed, in the North, and ultimately the twelve cities that were only mildly diminished by the fighting.


With the Wovenmen, those who so prized self-sacrifice over the sacrifice of others, victorious over the bloodthirsty priesthood of the Bay Twelve Confederation, those who had so happily opted to tear the skin and hearts off and out of their own kin and subjects, one might think that things changed dramatically. And in a way, they did, over time.

The practice of brutal sacrifice of other people was quickly forbidden, but after proving so effective during times so difficult it was hard to dispel the notion that it was needed and as such tensions kept high, with times of crisis resulting sometimes in mobs seeking to sacrifice someone. Faced with the choice of abandoning the principles they went to war for or continuing to fight unrest for years or decades, the ruling Wovenmen chose a compromise of sorts: they were not, after all, extraneous to the idea of sacrifice, as long as it was self sacrifice.

With a cultural push and encouragement by law, the notion was established that if you want the favour of gods, you should give something of yourself, an offering of sorrow, of pain, of struggle in some form. A gift freely given rather than forcefully taken, a way to actually earn the benefits you seek.

Over time, gentler methods were used to deliver the offering, chief among them sky lanterns with an ichor jar mixed with the offering, be it the tears of a grieving mother, the blood of the wounded hunter, or in some cases even body parts severed. In very few cases across history, tales tell of times of desperate crisis in which somebody performed the ultimate sacrifice, offering their own heart and life for the safety of the town.

The ichor would provide heat and light lifting the lantern as a small star lingering in the sky waiting to be accepted by way of lightning or wind, or to fall refused. This led to the air above the cities to be filled with floating lights casting a sombre glow on the streets carrying the pain, sacrifice and hopes of its citizens.

To reflect the great and yet limited changes in culture and administration, the Bay twelve confederation came to be known as the Twelve Bays Confederation, something that historians assure was indeed very important for the people of the time.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 06:14:27 pm by andrea »
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TricMagic

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #172 on: March 09, 2024, 04:57:24 pm »

Quote
The Wovenmen (6): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, Jerick, TFF, Lightforger,
The Wovenmen-Self sacrifice of the Woven [Amendment] (1): TricMagic
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (2): Doomblade, Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (0):
I'm down for this. Anyone else?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 04:59:16 pm by TricMagic »
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Powder Miner

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #173 on: March 09, 2024, 05:08:55 pm »

I feel like I should note that the current status (as of a few days ago) of the Wovenmen design itself is as follows:
Quote
The Wovenmen didn't actually know how to operate the Ziggawatts, or the many aspects of city infrastructure (short of the WhaleSlaying, which they were the ones to reintroduce), so they just had to rely on those who were already around to do it - and that, of course, meant the priesthood stayed around as a class theoretically second in power to the Wovenmen, even if their method of human sacrifice was now technically banned.

I mentioned this off-hand a couple of times, but I had edited this the day after posting it because I felt like it made sense anyway and I had kept human sacrifice unbanned anyway mostly because I had actually thought that people wouldn't want me to undo that part of the design phase immediately. This keeps things a little potentially ambiguous, mind, but I did feel like this was the outcome that made sense for the Wovenmen, given they'd attacked in large part because of the human sacrifice in the first place.
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andrea

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #174 on: March 09, 2024, 06:16:09 pm »

Since somebody is actually going for it, might as well...
cue the vote split making a non wovenmen proposal win!

But yes, I completely missed the edit which pretty much removed human sacrifice as standard practice. I don't really have any issues with it right now.


Quote
The Wovenmen (6): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, Jerick, TFF, Lightforger,
The Wovenmen-Self sacrifice of the Woven [Amendment] (2): TricMagic, Andrea
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (2): Doomblade, Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (0):

Doomblade187

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #175 on: March 09, 2024, 07:09:50 pm »

The addendum is cute.

Quote
The Wovenmen (6): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, Jerick, TFF, Lightforger,
The Wovenmen-Self sacrifice of the Woven [Amendment] (3): TricMagic, Andrea, Doomblade
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (1): Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (0):
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Jerick

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #176 on: March 09, 2024, 07:22:34 pm »

Quote
The Wovenmen (5): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, TFF, Lightforger,
The Wovenmen-Self sacrifice of the Woven [Amendment] (4): TricMagic, Andrea, Doomblade, Jerick
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (1): Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (0):
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Light forger

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #177 on: March 09, 2024, 10:31:24 pm »

Quote
The Wovenmen (4): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, TFF
The Wovenmen-Self sacrifice of the Woven [Amendment] (5): TricMagic, Andrea, Doomblade, Jerick, Lightforger,
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (1): Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (0):
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m1895

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #178 on: March 10, 2024, 02:20:15 am »

We can have a little human sacrifice, as a treat
Quote
The Wovenmen (5): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, TFF, m
The Wovenmen-Self sacrifice of the Woven [Amendment] (5): TricMagic, Andrea, Doomblade, Jerick, Lightforger,
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (1)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (1): Quarque
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (0):
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Quarque

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Re: Bay12 v. Black Pants Legion Great War Arms Race (Prelim 2 Revision)
« Reply #179 on: March 10, 2024, 03:18:33 am »

The wovenmen, compromised
This is like woven-men, but human sacrifice starts to happen just a little less often. The tradition isn't completely abandoned and in some cases people start to volunteer for it.

Quote
The Wovenmen (5): Powder Miner, DoubloonSeven, NUKE9.13, TFF, m
The Wovenmen, compromised [half amendment]: (1) Quarque
The Wovenmen-Self sacrifice of the Woven [Amendment] (5): TricMagic, Andrea, Doomblade, Jerick, Lightforger,
Mastering the nightmares (0):
The Towers of Light, and Oslux Code (0)
Ixam's Ladder (0)
Woah, I Can See Through Time ():
Wealth from the Land (2): Maxim, Rockeater,
The Stormsailing ()
Lightning beneath the Sky (0):
Arc Baleen Furnace ()
Lightning beneath the Sky(CDE) (0):
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