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[Imp]

To repeat my spheres,
Self-Confirmation, Limitation, Suspicious, Kill, Convolution, and Daytime.
Fallacy, I seriously wonder your attention, given Votes are nowhere in my spheres. If you want to dupe, Limitation is likely better if NJW is town, since that's two nights the kill is blocked and does refill me.

I'm definitely open to hearing ideas from NJW about what to dup N2 to give a chance of his having more control and protection for N3.

If there's no death N2, I'ma feel great.

Here's some of my choices:

I hope I don't have to use an action on that glass, if all goes as I expect EP has that.

I have a pretty good other use for that action tonight, so if NJW doesn't think it will help him have a chance or a certainty to dup an ability he has with a sphere that Tric does not have, I'll use it in some other way.

My initial plan 'requires' me to not use dup tonight, instead to retain it until N3, when I will use it for free and whoever it goes to, it's free for them too until someone takes free off of it.  That's fluff, if there's a pro-town plan that involves me using dup tonight, I'm all ears and likely cooperating.

NJW:  How this would work.  The dup targets spheres.  Not you personally, so you have to decide if the dup can even affect you, but it's more meta than anything.

Presuming you think it can even affect you:

If you have an ability that is, say... Wait.  Hold the hammers, folks.  I have questions out to the mod.  And no answers yet.

My intention is just to present info for NJW.  NJW can respond or not.

But Tric, very curious why you believe duping Limitation Sphere would possibly give NJW more use of that whatever.  NJW hasn't told us anything about that, right?  What are you reading that makes you think that's the sphere to target?

And limitation's probably not gonna happen, cause... I'm scared of you.

[Imp]

Okay.  Dup ignores 'auto', as FoU told us, I reconfirm through mod.  The problem there is no auto can have the 'free' tag; dup creates a free, shotted duplicate of the ability.

If a player has various spheres(S):

If ability(A) 1 has S1, S2, S3

A2 has S1, S3, S4.

A3 has S1, S2, S5.

If someone uses dup S1, then any of that player's abilities can be duplicated, presuming none are autos.

If someone uses dup S2, then that player's A1 or A3 can be duplicated.

If someone uses dup S3, then that player gets a dup of A1 or A2.

If someone dups either S4 or S5, only the one ability that player has gets duped, making it possible to control and ensure duping A2 or A3 for that player, but A1 is a chance no matter what is picked, better chance if duping S2 or S3 than S1.

So, if NJW, who I distrust hugely and who must be either anti-town or towns MVP, wants to discuss a sphere or few to dup that should ensure that this ability for NJW dups, I'm open to that.  I have no idea how NJW's stuff works.

Max is our sphere-wizard.  If we take him out of play, no idea who else may be a sphere wizard to any degree.  I see huge reasons for NJW as town to not say anything, and if he can't ensure we can dup his useful 'nobody has to die' ability, he should not answer.

The shot thing is a benefit; there's a way (and more than one, potentially) that we can ensure shots refill that NJW should be able to get and use based on everything I know about now.  I can ensure this through more than one method, at least one of which will work on NJW unless he has item weirdness in some major way.

I just deeply distrust the squirrely NJW, and think we're chasing something that doesn't even exist.  Where in the forum's history has the nightkill been actually and genuinely, for real, controlable like this, potentially endlessly into the future?

However, I'm all for giving NJW what should be a way to control the NK N3 without anything further needing to be discussed except what sphere.  If we do elim Max, this is likely a good play, as Max is the one we know could change a sphere (and might accidentally change a sphere NJW needs not to change for NJW's supposed plan to work).

But it involves NJW revealing what sphere to dup; I commit to discussion and unless it's huge risk (duping one of Tric's spheres on that ability is a huge risk, worry worry and I don't think we can control it if we open that dragon's door again) I commit to using the action to dup the sphere NJW requests if there is a request.  Everyone with that sphere will be dupped; someone with that sphere will also gain the action-needing dup ability.

Otherwise, NJW should not name a sphere, no reasons given, won't increase my distrust, just means for any reason NJW can't name a sphere that could make this probably going to work.  That's totally cool to me, I have a plan for that action for me and reasonable pro-town use for holding the dup another night.

[Imp]

Oh. also.  That glass item does not have any sphere on it that Tric named.  But Tric had it, appears to have started the game with it.  I do not know if this is sus or not.

Near as I can tell, items can be dupped, they just need to have a sphere tag and that sphere getting duped.

[TricMagic]

Just to say Imp, I kinda doubt most of that will get read.

[Imp]

Just to say Imp, I kinda doubt most of that will get read.

Wanna translate it so it does?

[Imp]

Just to say Imp, I kinda doubt most of that will get read.

And are you confused or concerned that an item you started play with has a sphere that you claim not to have?

[Imp]

Just to say Imp, I kinda doubt most of that will get read.

Or, Max, if you think it's reasonably pro-town, could/would you handle the translation and/or even improvement of the idea, with your own improvements highlight, should you believe this is useful for your wincon?

[TricMagic]

Do not dup any of Tric's spheres tonight, folks, and probably not in the future, that's probably not pro-town, I explain why deeper below.

TricMagic

One thing to note that the ones Toony makes are likely fakes to web's power, useless chunks of rock. So if they got traded as the real deal and web tried to use them, their action would just end up failing. As a balance, makes sense?

Not sure if you meant Toony, Tric?  And duping emeralds by the known FoU method can't be done, they don't have a sphere (that I know of) they cannot be duped that way.

Toonyman,
I believe you should explore what happens if you combine one item, with or without the artefact tag, with any of your abilities.  I do not know if you should share the answer, however before you try that you should probably find out if you risk turning your 'not movable' (as far as I know) abilities into something that can be traded, stolen, or otherwise moved around like any other item, or if you can know for sure that you can combine items into your abilities and just lose the item/artefact part (and be sure to check for both, because the artefact tag could have independent combinations with you).

My initial thoughts involved potentially setting up gives/trades of items with requests you consider combining them if you agree the combo seems pro-town.  This would be past N2 stuff though, and everything's contingent on this being fluff.  We gotta elim anti-town and I am not bribable.  All this cool item stuff, it's unfortunately a distraction or at best, except for those very few things that actually matter.

Imp Thoughts
The glass being used on dead qua, an honest report and cop stuff happening, that could be very important (not sure we have the tools to find the needed answers, but we could, or they could come into play).  I am 100% committed to that happening.

The Page in capable hands, if capable pro-town hands exist, and no other kills that pro-town controls being used tonight, is incredibly vital.  Sounds like pie in the sky to me, and NJW should have been rock solid on ideas that involve that page not going anywhere to allow it to work N3, especially.  Only way it works in non NJW hands N3 is if it's not working N2 because it moved D2 or N2.  That should not happen, though I was okay with it early D2.  That was not what NJW said should happen early D2 - NJW closed that door himself.  I'm upset hugely about that, in the same way I'm comfortable with EP not waffling on the idea of what I believe should be the benefits of EP actually using the glass himself N2, because that ensures nobody lies about what results EP gets, and any confusion EP can personally ask the mod about, and that I suggest this needs doing but not necessarily by me N2 though I ensure it happens N2 if the trade doesn't happen or if EP didn't agree to the trade.  We had discussion, agreement, and went from there, cool.  NJW has not one problem with holding the Page, or a single list presented and discussable, but a whole squirrel's nest of waffles.  I don't believe we can count on the Page in NJW's hands, though I'm grateful if we can and I am 100% committed to not doing anything that could cause a kill tonight.  Anyone who uses or allows a kill tonight is acting hella anti-town and should die for it, if NJW is not elim today.

I'm still probably/possibly eating that apple tonight, and apples are important items, yes.  No matter what, the one apple I know exists won't rot N2.


I am committed to not duping Tric's vote ability.  I urge everyone to carefully not dup it either.  Here's why:  Without a refill, if he uses it, that D we get 2 elims, but if we elim town, it is nearly 100% likely that both abilities refill.  And do all their effects, including what triggers them.

That means, if Tric uses it the next D - I don't think it's possible for Tric to only trigger one and not the other dup, because they fire on a phrase Tric says, not an action Tric takes.  Action, he could use Ability or Ability #2.  I don't think he can say in a way to use Ability or Ability #2, I think both reload together and fire together.  I also think it's 100% possible for Tric to trigger both together even if the ability could be triggered separately, and I think there's only anti-town benefit to duping Tric's ability, as it really weakens Tric's ability to use it in a selective pro-town way and increases the odds of an 'everyone dies in a couple days if not before' kinda way.  it would force Tric not to use his ability, or force the elim of up to 3 players should he ever refill then use it.

Everyone
So please nobody dup an ability that has a sphere that Tric listed off, because if that's the only ability Tric has, duping any of those spheres forces a dup of Tric's ability, with all the rest-of-game consequences of that.


TricMagic
Tric, I empower others, for all you're not empowered yet.  Among the fluffy things I can do with items (Sadly may not help us elim/kill anti-town, so its all fluff) is give the equivalent or fact of actions to others.  I'm really good at this; it's not a priority but if I really wanted to, I could probably set you up with the equivalent or fact of about 6 actions by start of D5.  I really doubt that's the most pro-town of possible things I can do - I don't intend to further that specific option tonight.  But you being unable to action probably isn't pro-town and you getting action-equivalents is on my list of reasonable things to cause to happen.  What I actually can do is hugely conditional based on how many players are alive, where items are, what items in play are, and other things, and it's very distracting, fun, and totally 'secondary' to me - not in 'secondary wincon' - in the fact that I don't see a single thing I can do to ensure we elim or kill anti-town, and that comes first.  But I can probably help make this game more fun for people, and maybe I can empower folks in very pro-town ways, I think that's the best use of my options.

Says the one who stole all my items.

About that, I didn't actually 'steal' them.  And unlike CM, me 'stealing' from someone is not indicative of what I think of their alignment.  I'm doing something pretty complicated when I 'appear to steal' and really it's more moving items around in some broad ways and doing other stuff too, if the other stuff is possible to do.  I'll reveal everything pro-town as we go along and I am 100% committed to not allowing confusion that will get people elim or allow scum to hide, but I have pro-town reasons to be unclear about what I am doing and how it works.  Judge me by the sum results of what I do, not any little part.  But, my 'theft' has the result of confirming the glass exists, how it works and gets night results (And shows everyone that if I 'steal' it, but you use it that night, your use happens), and puts it into a third set of hands to use N2 who confirms they agree to use it in a pro-town way N2.  I think this is a very pro-town path for that item's uses.  It sucks we have a probable pro-town person who gets no actions tonight.  I'll try to find a 'this is the most pro-town thing I can do' reason to get actions or options for actions back into Tric's control soon, but I cannot ensure that is happening N2.

You get 1 edit from me today. Amazing what a few underlines do to break it up. The preview button is king.

[TricMagic]

Not really needed for small posts, but it does help get info to the people you want rather than forcing them to read all of it to find the addressed info.

[FallacyofUrist]

Dead gods that is a long explanation. Let me condense it.

The dupe action targets a sphere. For every player with at least one non-auto ability with that sphere, one of their non-auto abilities with that sphere is copied.

The copy is both 1-Shot and Free.

Then the dupe action relocates itself to a random player who had an ability duped.

My other action (and its copy) share this relocation property, by the way.

Re: Tric. Sorry, I either missed or forgot your sphere claim. I'm just surprised your ability that manipulates the execution doesn't have the Vote sphere.

[FallacyofUrist]

Probably more importantly, the day ends in a few hours. I'm stuck between NJW and Toony for my final vote target.

And honestly, since they both seem to be acting in the exact same way towards the day game, and either way when one of them is executed the other's true nature should be much more clear, I'm going to vote NJW2000.

Good grief, when this game is over I'm probably going to take a month or two off from playing mafia. The game is exhausting. Might spend some time running an Arms Race instead or something, or spend more time as a mod.

[FallacyofUrist]

EBWOP: NJW2000

There.

[TricMagic]

Dead gods that is a long explanation. Let me condense it.

The dupe action targets a sphere. For every player with at least one non-auto ability with that sphere, one of their non-auto abilities with that sphere is copied.

The copy is both 1-Shot and Free.

Then the dupe action relocates itself to a random player who had an ability duped.

My other action (and its copy) share this relocation property, by the way.

Re: Tric. Sorry, I either missed or forgot your sphere claim. I'm just surprised your ability that manipulates the execution doesn't have the Vote sphere.

The method of execution is the lynch, so nothing there. No new votes are added, or altered. That and Self-confirmation is all the way across the sphere through a blowback sphere.

[TricMagic]

I like how we've had 3 days of almost nothing going on. Don't you like three days of nothing but stress? Huh?
Being honest, I expected a hammer to occur. The fact it hasn't says things. And it's not Max is town. NQT, got a votecount? I'd rather a no lynch not occur and get brushed off as an accident.

[Elephant Parade]

I also expected a hammer TBH. I am 100% down to hammer MS and will do it to prevent a tie.